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How has this not been posted yet? Retro VGS


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#3501 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 5:42 PM

I wonder how many Harmony carts were sold. :ponder:



#3502 glazball OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 5:52 PM

Glazball, don't feel ganged up on. :) You asked some good questions. :)


Hehe no I certainly don't. I guess I'm drawing a major distinction between the "community" and those Mike has dealt personally with: Kevtris, Pat, Piko, the RVGS backers (especially so), etc. I do agree they should receive apologies, but really that's between them. The rest of us, the community, don't need an apology and shouldn't be asking for one. Mike is trying to sell us something. Have you ever seen a salesman apologize for trying to stretch the truth?

#3503 dashv OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 5:57 PM

Hehe no I certainly don't. I guess I'm drawing a major distinction between the "community" and those Mike has dealt personally with: Kevtris, Pat, Piko, the RVGS backers (especially so), etc. I do agree they should receive apologies, but really that's between them. The rest of us, the community, don't need an apology and shouldn't be asking for one. Mike is trying to sell us something. Have you ever seen a salesman apologize for trying to stretch the truth?

True leaders make public apologies when there was public defamation.

You don't make right in private (exclusively) that which was a public wrong.

At least that's the way I've always rolled.

I know this is the age of "never apologize. Never show signs of weakness."

But I think it's also what's making this the age of "Be bold and don't worry about the consequences. No one can hold you accountable."

It's partly about respect and partly about being appropriately humble.

Edited by dashv, Thu Oct 1, 2015 6:01 PM.


#3504 dashv OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 6:05 PM

I wonder how many Harmony carts were sold. :ponder:


Something else I wondered about was whether or not their platform would support flash carts like the Harmony and Everdrives.

As a developer it'd seem like a very desirable feature and feasible if you were reading the carts like the original systems and executing the code using specialized FPGA cores.

But if they went the arm/emulation route it'd be more like the Retron 5 right? Dump contents and emulate. So no flash card support.

#3505 wood_jl OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 6:18 PM

A Cadillac with a body of a '94 Chevy Cavalier!

 

Ha!   Funny you should mention that!   Remember, that was *actually* tried, but it was more like "A Cadillac with the body of an '82 Chevy Cavalier" (even worse than a '94) and it was an abysmal flop that almost killed Cadillac.  It would have been a death that was almost deserved for making such a stupid marketing move.

 

Cadillac Cimarron.jpg

TIME 50 Worst Cars of All Time: 1982 Cadillac Cimarron



#3506 Newsdee OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 6:39 PM

Maybe they could revisit their strategy and sell modified Jaguar shells to mount other boards such as the RPi or an FPGA board. There's a kickstarter for Amiga 1200 molds that is doing that kind of thing on top of fitting original motherboards. But to be fair, I don't know how easy it is to retrofit mounting holes/pegs into an existing case.



#3507 Greg2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 7:11 PM

I wonder how many Harmony carts were sold. :ponder:

 

That wasn't an individual game, which is what I meant.  Is it going to be worth it for Shovel Knight to be ported to a RVGS, only to sell 5K units, or much less?



#3508 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 7:18 PM

 

That wasn't an individual game, which is what I meant.  Is it going to be worth it for Shovel Knight to be ported to a RVGS, only to sell 5K units, or much less?

 

I wasn't replying to your post.  Harmony = device to play old games = possible amount of systems sold, to play old games.



#3509 galax OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 9:27 PM

I was wondering how far along the prototype development got, so I've looked a bit more into the photo from John Carlsen's Facebook post from last week (first attached photo) that mentioned the prototype, the same setup that appeared in the video that was up for a few days but has now been taken down. 

 

He seems to have a Lattice Semiconductor ispMACH 4256ZE Breakout Board underneath the transparent Jag case (as well as some Lattice packaging in the background). The board is smaller than the case, and iis sitting on something else, possibly one of the previously shown cardboard PCB mockups. All PCB printing, connectors, and components seem to match the Lattice board.

 

I think the red PCB is an Olimex RK3188-SOM-EVB (with HDMI and USB). The tall capacitor, USB, and battery sockets are along the bottom edge in the photo. and the three IDC connectors are along the left edge, with a yellow post-it note (there's another one on the soldering iron with a temperature reminder on it) over on the right hand side. There's a thick black cable coming from approximately where the Olimex's HDMI port is (top right of the board in the prototype photo) and a similar black HDMI cable disconnected just below the unused GBS 8220 (RGB/CGA/EGA/YUV to VGA board). The other GBS 8220 seems to be connected to the smaller green PCB.

 

So what was running the demo, the Lattice FPGA, Olimex SOM, both, or neither? The bench PSU seems to be connected to the Olimex's power socket (bottom right)

 

11930970_10153138095592066_4156865910288700961_o1.jpg  ispMACH-4256ZE-Breakout-Board-Front.png  Retro VGS Proto 2.jpg  rk3188-som-evb.PNG


Edited by galax, Thu Oct 1, 2015 10:27 PM.


#3510 jaybird3rd OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 9:46 PM

the video that was up for a few days but has now been taken down.

Indeed it has.  I knew I should have downloaded it while I had the chance!  Did anybody here save a copy of it?

 

(This is exactly why I don't trust "the cloud.") :mad:

 

Good to know what the rest of the boards are (a few of them were identified further up in the thread), but most importantly to me, I think I've found that awesome all-important power supply he was using!  Here it is.  I want one of these.



#3511 SiLic0ne t0aD OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 9:55 PM

I meant to save copy of it but I forgot about it too.. :skull:



#3512 dashv OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 10:09 PM

For those coming in late and having trouble keeping up with this forum thread I have a second video summing up the latest developments and attempting to show the RVGS folks the communities point of view without coming off as trolling or beating a dead horse.

 



#3513 SoulBlazer OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 10:18 PM

141 pages....yup, this has become one of the biggest threads here on AA. :)

 

At least some good came out of it...more people joined the forums due to it, we got some publicity on the net, and people have been entertained for a good couple weeks. ;)

 

In case anyone missed it, the polices on Indiegogo are very different then Kickstarter.  As long as people have bids on place, they can't remove the pledge page, although the campaign has been canceled.  So you can expect it to stay up until it runs out.

 

No surprise it's been radio silence from Mike and Steve since they canceled the campaign and John quit.  I don't expect we'll hear anything for a few weeks.



#3514 StopDrop&Retro ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 10:52 PM

Indeed it has.  I knew I should have downloaded it while I had the chance!  Did anybody here save a copy of it?

 

(This is exactly why I don't trust "the cloud.") :mad:

 

I meant to save copy of it but I forgot about it too.. :skull:

 

Curse our modern age and its reliance on digital distribution! If only someone would invent a means of physical distribution they can't take away from us!!!

 

nah, jk

 

I saved a copy of it when I was making my video. I sent you guys a PM with the link. If anyone else wants a link, send me a PM.



#3515 jaybird3rd OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 11:03 PM

I saved a copy of it when I was making my video. I sent you guys a PM with the link. If anyone else wants a link, send me a PM.

Thanks very much!  I'm glad that someone grabbed it before it disappeared down the memory hole.



#3516 Benheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 11:29 PM

Heard about this crowdsourced project and remembered I had it pitched to me about a year ago. Checked my email to confirm... it was these guys! I recall thinking it was a very strange concept at the time, but seems like they went for it?

 

Here's what I've learned about collectors and nostalgia, both from my game console mods of old and more recently pinball design and manufacture:

 

People will pay good money - stupid money even - for things that remind them of the past, but it has to be THINGS FROM THEIR PAST.

 

If I nostalgically play Duck Tales, for instance, I'm reminded of being 13 years old and not having to pay taxes or work 60 hours a week. The Twin Towers are still standing, gas is 90 cents a gallon and the Berlin Wall just came down - yahoo! Nostalgia is about the longing for things that are gone. Games (or movies, or songs...) are simply a tangible link to that memory, persistent evidence and a reminder of a past that is gone.

 

RVGS has no such history. It's not "taking us back to the past" because it didn't exist in the past. It's more of an impression of the past, like myself trying to imitate Sean Connery. Sure 8-bit graphics are the "hot thing" on Steam, but that's mostly because it's an affordable way for indie developers to make games.

 

I'm not nostalgic for cartridges. I don't even like swapping out Metal Gear V in order to watch a Blu-Ray. It is a less convenient way to enjoy media. One could argue (correctly) that Blu-Ray is superior to streaming but with games? No difference at all.

 

Cartridges - like a horse and buggy - were a product of their time. Couldn't download a game because there was no internet. Even if you could, you wouldn't be able to afford the RAM to hold it. Disks are cheap right? Sure, but the disk drives themselves cost as much as the computer. In that world, a mass-produced ROM mask on a PCB made sense.

 

Oh gee what else to complain about...

 

  • Jaguar shell is an insane idea, again, going back to nostalgia, you want to remind people of the console that killed Atari?
  • Save $X by using that mold, but how much does it cost to mod in all those ports that weren't on the Jag? (and on the front too)
  • Jag cartridges with weird handle were pretty lame, AVGN does a pretty good job explaining why.
  • Nobody is going to write games (or even port them, ask the WiiU) for a system with such a small install base

Also, have a working prototype. Crowdfunding should be 1) develop it with your own money 2) ask for the money needed for manufacture. When the money intended for manufacture gets used to finish development you always end up in a hole and have to seek additional funding to fulfill the materials. This is where most projects truly go off the rails.

 

KevTris system looks great. Get a stuffing quote from a fab house, Kickstart that cost + 20%, and release files for buyers to 3D print their own custom cases.

 

Boom, done!



#3517 001 Influence Device OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 1, 2015 11:51 PM

For those coming in late and having trouble keeping up with this forum thread I have a second video summing up the latest developments and attempting to show the RVGS folks the communities point of view without coming off as trolling or beating a dead horse.

 

 

I see you're using a Sega Genesis case for your prototype... Where do I sign up? :P :P



#3518 Kosmic Stardust ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 2, 2015 12:10 AM

I wonder how many Harmony carts were sold. :ponder:

A lot. Ditto for Powepak and Everdrive and every other flash cart that can hold every game ever made. One could argue however, that by itself, a flash cart is not an actual game. :P

 

Fact is, we don't really have solid info on the number of copies sold of homebrew for Atari, NES, or other system. Dealers who sell unlimited editions, or their developers, are not releasing solid numbers.



#3519 galax OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 2, 2015 12:36 AM

Heard about this crowdsourced project and remembered I had it pitched to me about a year ago. Checked my email to confirm... it was these guys! I recall thinking it was a very strange concept at the time, but seems like they went for it?

 

Interesting that they have been kicking the idea around for so long, and still have wildly changing specs and no prototype. I think they were more certain about having limited edition cases though. 



#3520 galax OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 2, 2015 12:39 AM

  • Save $X by using that mold, but how much does it cost to mod in all those ports that weren't on the Jag? (and on the front too)

 

It seems they did work that one out eventually: "Although we already knew we would save massive up-front development costs, we learned how much re-using the former Jaguar case adds to the price of each unit. "



#3521 StopDrop&Retro ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 2, 2015 12:59 AM

Thanks very much!  I'm glad that someone grabbed it before it disappeared down the memory hole.

 

I've received a few more requests for the video so I've decided it'll benefit everyone to just release it publicly. I've included a notice to the viewers with it as well.

 



#3522 StopDrop&Retro ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 2, 2015 1:43 AM

Heard about this crowdsourced project and remembered I had it pitched to me about a year ago. Checked my email to confirm... it was these guys! I recall thinking it was a very strange concept at the time, but seems like they went for it?

 

Wow! Thanks for sharing! Any chance you can give any info about the pitch in that email? 

 

They didn't buy the Jaguar tooling until December of last year. When did you get your email? Was there any indication of who was on the team at that time? Also, why do you suppose they pitched their idea to you?


Edited by StopDrop&Retro, Fri Oct 2, 2015 1:44 AM.


#3523 AE35 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 2, 2015 2:05 AM

Wow, Benjamin Heckendorn himself. Did they want your money or your name on it? (or both)

 

That could have been great. First Ben does Americas Most Haunted then he does the Retro VGS :)

 

/Nicholas


Edited by AE35, Fri Oct 2, 2015 2:06 AM.


#3524 Shawn OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 2, 2015 2:16 AM

I'm wondering what and where all this money that was said to have been spent on this went into? Mike bought the Jag molds sure but the shells already paid for those. John only had a couple hundred bucks (tops) worth of crap shoved under that clear jag top as well. They went on like they had exhausted the family fortune and I just can't see how that is\was possible.

 

P.S. Bow down bitches, Ben Heck is in the house! :grin: :thumbsup:



#3525 Gentlegamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Oct 2, 2015 2:31 AM

A wild Ben Heck appears!






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