Andromeda Stardust Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I just realized NeoGAF has two threads going on at once, they started another one to announce the campaign. Not much more positive there though. Someone made this little gem: Ouya = poundland scented candle! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcdev Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 But what you forget Kevtris is that they have guys with decades of experience in the games industry. So they must know what they're doing - right? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) I kept seeing the BOM rise like a bottle rocket only to explode with a loud report at the top of its travel. Nice choice of wording. Clever "BOMB" pun with bill of materials. Even if it somehow miraculously gets funded, it has a high likelyhood of "bombing"... Seriously though, this is an excellent writeup. I hope someday to own one of your future FPGA devices... Edited September 20, 2015 by stardust4ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcdev Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I'm guessing all that money Parrothead waved in front of Kevtris before taking it away would only come into play if they hit the $3,800,000 stretch goal. Of course, we don't know what FPGA goes into which tier, because they haven't told us. It sounded like even Kevtris himself was unsure. Given that the FPGA won't be capable of emulating classic systems, it has to be something (considerably?) less than an EP2C20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevtris Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 But what you forget Kevtris is that they have guys with decades of experience in the games industry. So they must know what they're doing - right? Yeah their HW guy knew more than me. He thought that videogame systems of the era outputted 480i/30fps video and that the RVGS was ONLY going to output 480i on all the interfaces (RGB, NTSC, S-vid, HDMI(!)). I had to tell 'em that videogame systems all outputted 240p/60fps. That's the point I knew the project was in deep stuff. :-/ I have only been making FPGA videogame systems for 11 years, so I don't have much experience I guess. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) I still think there should be a way to update games; if not directly then something similar to XBox 360/Live. But, it seems this must be the better route: Edited fur grammar. Edited September 20, 2015 by PlaysWithWolves 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glazball Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Kevtris I wish you and Mike could have paired up to make a system. Your genius, his salesmanship. It would have been nice. @rob ocelot - Well you are right in that all signs point to scam, but I do feel it's not the case here. Just simply that Mike is looking to take the throne as King of Retroland and just needs money to get ball rolling on a system with games that he is totally in control of. It's a career move and moneymaking venture and hey, who among us (who don't already) wouldn't want to make a living with video games? He has Game Gavel already set up to sell the games, the Retro Magazine to promote it, and the desire to do all this. And I'm totally ok with that EXCEPT when it comes to coughing up a few hundred that I may never see again. I do hope something good comes from this discussion as well. I'd like to see a cool cart-based console succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) I still think there should be a way to update games, if not directly then something similar to XBox 360/Live. But, it seems this must be the better route: fb_bugs.PNG That is a little too much. Really they will have testers for every game on the platform? They are really aiming to have at most 2 games a months or something or this is going to be unsustainable. "developers will be instructed to give us bug free games" .... you know because instead developers naturally lean towards bug laden steaming piles of crap .... what planet do they come from? EDIT: glide path 32h 58.7K -> 1090h for goal -> 45days .... ... as they said they chose the worse time to start a campaign .... I wonder why? Is gotta be the fumes ...or utter incompetence. Edited September 20, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcdev Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 That is a little too much. Really they will have testers for every game on the platform? They are really aiming to have at most 2 games a months or something or this is going to be unsustainable. They've put as much thought into this as they have the design of the system, obviously. Do they seriously think that while they're scrambling to produce consoles and games they're going to drop everything to chase down a bug in one game and issue a recall? Or that we're going to believe that they will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_ocelot Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) That is a little too much. Really they will have testers for every game on the platform? They are really aiming to have at most 2 games a months or something or this is going to be unsustainable. "developers will be instructed to give us bug free games" .... you know because instead developers naturally lean towards bug laden steaming piles of crap .... what planet do they come from? Further to that, the first few times they have to recall thousands of games, reprogram them, and send them back to already pissed consumers who can't play their game they will likely stop that practice. Are they going to pay shipping costs both ways for consumers too? Who is going to do the bulk of the reprogramming, the game testers they've hired? (way to make the shittiest grunt job in the industry even shittier!) Maybe Retro could fix 7800 Impossible Mission and mail it to me as a test run... Edited September 20, 2015 by rob_ocelot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 "developers will be instructed to give us bug free games" I heard this in the real development world from a Director of development "Great job guys, next time, can do you do it without bugs?". It was not a joke. That was just me and another guy, writing a SNES game. Which was a joke in the first place, they dropped that in our office and said: "We got 6 months!". We never even read the docs of the system, before the deadline was dropped. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algus Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) "developers will be instructed to give us bug free games" As simple as that, eh? I will give them this, their sales pitch is good. If this thing actually existed, I'd be on board. Edited September 20, 2015 by Algus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcdev Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I do hope something good comes from this discussion as well. I'd like to see a cool cart-based console succeed. I too dream of a cart-based console but sincerely doubt the promise of 'new' retro games will be successful. I think Kevtis is on the right track; it needs to be developed with the emulation of classic systems in mind in order to sell units. If someone wants to develop a custom core for new game development, then all power to them, but I don't believe it'll be a significant drawcard. Personally it would hold no interest for me given the experience playing a new game on the console wouldn't differ from playing it on any other platform. And this is exactly where RetroVGS seems to have focused their efforts - yet another indie console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) I heard this in the real development world from a Director of development "Great job guys, next time, can do you do it without bugs?". It was not a joke. That was just me and another guy, writing a SNES game. Which was a joke in the first place, they dropped that in our office and said: "We got 6 months!". We never even read the docs of the system, before the deadline was dropped. Funny, you know as humans we should have learnt by now that even when taking a crap we cannot really choose much of its shape, consistency, color or smell .... but if we get proper instructions all that is gonna change ... whatever. Edited September 20, 2015 by phoenixdownita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Which one of you did this? LOL. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 "developers will be instructed to give us bug free games" As simple as that, eh? I will give them this, their sales pitch is good. If this thing actually existed, I'd be on board. Of course it will be. Their second to last line is even "Simple as that." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClassyGamer Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Over the last few years I've backed a total of two IGG projects. I've got nothing to show for it. Here I was thinking of throwing my money away again. After reading here, I'm glad I stayed off backing this project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 "developers will be instructed to give us bug free games" As simple as that, eh? It's amazing, isn't it? The entire software industry has been wandering in the wilderness for years, somehow completely overlooking the brilliantly simple guiding principle that these guys, thanks no doubt to their decades of experience, have hit upon. Who needs ISO-9000 or Six Sigma now? Frederick Brooks, eat your heart out! If you want bug-free software, simply instruct the developers to give you bug-free software! Like, how the hell did everybody manage to miss that?! But I guess that's why they deserve to raise two million bucks on Indiegogo. Because they're professionals. Who have experience. Decades of experience. Think of what else could be accomplished by extending that simple idea. If you want an awesome video game console, simply add the following language to your technical specification: "The designers will be instructed to create a video game console that is totally awesome." How could it fail???!!! Seriously, I don't want to pile on, but this is one of the most mind-bendingly stupid things to have come out of this campaign. As someone pointed out in another thread, Nintendo has a massive QA operation in place, and they still miss bugs sometimes. How, exactly, do the three guys on the RVGS team plan to ensure that bugs in their games are indeed "rare occurrences"? What formal processes of software testing are they prepared to implement, and will they ensure that the bedroom indie coders they're relying on so heavily will consistently implement them as well? I may not be an expert with decades of experience, but even I know that if I were to have the nerve to ask people to give me millions of dollars, these are the kinds of details I would have made damn certain to straighten out long before I even began scripting my first sizzle video. At a minimum, somebody needs to send them a link to Joel Spolsky's writings on software quality (see here and here for starters), and ask them how many of his recommended procedures they have already put into practice. Somebody should also ask if they have at least done an analysis of how much a full recall on a cartridge title will cost, and who would pay the shipping, since they insist on having no mechanism at all for delivering fixes. Or maybe we're just not supposed to worry our pretty little heads about any of this. Because they're the experts. Who are professionals. With decades of experience. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Over the last few years I've backed a total of two IGG projects. I've got nothing to show for it. Here I was thinking of throwing my money away again. After reading here, I'm glad I stayed off backing this project. I'm glad this thread was helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Which one of you did this? LOL. I clicked the "Like" button and apparently have exceeded my daily quota. Amazed how fast this thread is moving along... Funny, you know as humans we should have learnt by now that even when taking a crap we cannot really choose much of its shape, consistency, color or smell .... but if we get proper instructions all that is gonna change ... whatever. Because anyone who believes their crap don't stink is delusional. RetroVGS people included. Edited September 21, 2015 by stardust4ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VogieMac Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 First post here. Neat forums, BTW... I'll be asking questions elsewhere about getting into Retro Gaming. Just had to say thanks to all you guys who put up the solid info to stop my fool A$$ from plunking down $400 on this train wreck. I'm really disappointed. If this system would have delivered, it would have been a great one stop shop for me to get my old carts out and maybe enjoy some cool new ones. I hope they wake up and alter course before the iceberg hits. We'll see........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 New update to their FB page. More mention about Apple, Atari, Sega, etc. More talk about how you can hand this console down to your children. Zero talk about the hardware specs or any actual, physical proof that this exists. In other words, more snake oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGQuarterly Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 New update to their FB page. More mention about Apple, Atari, Sega, etc. More talk about how you can hand this console down to your children. Zero talk about the hardware specs or any actual, physical proof that this exists. In other words, more snake oil. They're really starting to reek of desperation. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Jesus, guys--I can't even keep up with the posts. Started from page 52.. an hour and a half later, just now hitting page 68 (and I see a 69th has just appeared). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algus Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Lol well between the indiegogo page and the posts from the core developer, I think the smoke machine and mirrors got broken on this "project" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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