tuf Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Found a 1050 with a switch on the front saying UP-HAPPY/DOWN-US DOUBLER. What I'm wondering is if this is a real Happy or a clone. It's got no writing on it at all. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 It's definitely not a real Happy. They all have green solder mask and say HAPPY COMPUTERS on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Not a duplicator either. http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/atari/duplicator.html They didn't make provisions for dual OS use for either of those drive upgrades so it must be a Happy clone with extra talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 The only real copy protection the Happy has is a 2600-style bankswitched ROM (which has a bunch text to taunt the hackers). That board probably uses the 7474 to switch banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Out of curiosity I wonder why anyone would care to have US Doubler functionality in a drive that is already "Happy." Happy enhancement I think can do everything the USD can, plus a bit more. I used to have two 1050s. One was Happy, one USD. The Happy was just as fast as the USD and also could make backups of protected disks. Edited February 27, 2015 by fujidude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Probably just because they could. Are there any features unique to the USD? Is it more compatible than Unhappy mode? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I recall reading somewhere that Happy breaks some protected disks. USD is just an extra 128 bytes of RAM and a new OS providing DD, higher baud rates, etc. It'll do for me if I can get someone to burn my bloody EPROMs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bf2k+ Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 My oldest Happy has that same board in it. I got it in the late 80's or so. Actually back in the 80's, I was a total SpartaDOS user (still am) and I used an ICD program called SCOPY to copy disks at hi-speed on USD 1050's. This program would not work at high speed on Happy drives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 The Happy is definitely much more versatile. If it was "either-or" then some folks would choose the Doubler because of money. Around $250 at one time for the Happy, and maybe $50 for a USD? The Happy Warp speed is not *quite* as fast as USD, but it would be really difficult to determine that without running a benchmark. I always thought that the USD was a pain because of the disk format timing issues (standard vs. USD interleave). I had a Happy 810 in 1982 -- pretty rare back then. 1050 Happy drives are even better. The Archiver certainly stole a lot of it's thunder, though. -Larry Edit: About the 810 Happy -- I found that after I got the Happy, my popularity among Atari guys went way up! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 My oldest Happy has that same board in it. I got it in the late 80's or so. Actually back in the 80's, I was a total SpartaDOS user (still am) and I used an ICD program called SCOPY to copy disks at hi-speed on USD 1050's. This program would not work at high speed on Happy drives. It's been so long I just don't remember some of these details. But I do remember being a big SD head, and using that sector copier a LOT. Also used Bob Puff's Disk Communicator a fair amount too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I recall reading somewhere that Happy breaks some protected disks. USD is just an extra 128 bytes of RAM and a new OS providing DD, higher baud rates, etc. It'll do for me if I can get someone to burn my bloody EPROMs. If a disc won't boot on a Happy drive due to the copy protection used you can always try setting the drive to "UnHappy" mode using the Happy software. This should resolve any issues the software has with the drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 If a disc won't boot on a Happy drive due to the copy protection used you can always try setting the drive to "UnHappy" mode using the Happy software. This should resolve any issues the software has with the drive. I'll tell the owner. I had to replace the pin array on a Happy board and fit a write protect switch to the drive before returning it. Actually the owner is now having issues with the mech not spinning up. While I was testing it I kinda liked the track buffering but once I realised I could build a USD for myself for a few bucks, that's what I did. Unfortunately I have issues with the EPROM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuf Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) My oldest Happy has that same board in it. I got it in the late 80's or so. Actually back in the 80's, I was a total SpartaDOS user (still am) and I used an ICD program called SCOPY to copy disks at hi-speed on USD 1050's. This program would not work at high speed on Happy drives. Resurrecting a thread here b/c I'm finally removing the board to troubleshoot it and the 1050. Bf2k+, any chance you can remember what the board is called? Edited July 11, 2016 by tuf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) It COULD be a Lazer board (another Happy rip off) Is there no writing anywhere on it, I think my Lazer had writing on it, crudely done with an etch resist pen.. Edit: from a quick bigger res look I can see a very possible dry joint at the bottom edge of the board to the left of the 74LS139, grey wire...Pretty ropey if making contact at all. Edited July 11, 2016 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1050 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Yep, classic cold solder joint there, highly suspect until reflowed. Middle wire of the triple grey run. OS dump would be nice to look at and will tell all I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Interesting, I just came across a Happy 1050 on a WST mech that looks similar but not exactly the same as this board. This board has much more angular traces. Does anyone know what the first H1050s looked like? I thought some were done by hand by Happy. ROM: M5L2764K.BIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Yeah, I know it is a very old post. But just in case somebody is interested. Actually back in the 80's, I was a total SpartaDOS user (still am) and I used an ICD program called SCOPY to copy disks at hi-speed on USD 1050's. This program would not work at high speed on Happy drives. It works, but you need to enable fast buffered writes on the happy, which is not enabled by default. Later SpataDOS versions do that automatically when they detect a Happy drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Yeah, I know it is a very old post. But just in case somebody is interested. It works, but you need to enable fast buffered writes on the happy, which is not enabled by default. Later SpataDOS versions do that automatically when they detect a Happy drive. Edit: Not automatically. In SDX, use INDUS.SYS to program Happy and Indus drives. Put it in CONFIG.SYS. Edited January 21, 2017 by Kyle22 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Interesting, I just came across a Happy 1050 on a WST mech that looks similar but not exactly the same as this board. This board has much more angular traces. Does anyone know what the first H1050s looked like? I thought some were done by hand by Happy. I don't know how they looked like. But yours doesn't seem to be. It has the later rev 2 EPROM (yeah, it could have been updated), and the earlier boards didn't have 8K ram as this one, but only 6K. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I really doubt that the picture is of a genuine Happy. But that board looks like more than a homemade hack, though. Anyone recognize the TCP logo on the top side? (Something..) Computer Products? Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+tf_hh Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I really doubt that the picture is of a genuine Happy. But that board looks like more than a homemade hack, though. Anyone recognize the TCP logo on the top side? (Something..) Computer Products? Larry Yes, same opinion here. I have had a real genuine Happy 1050 PCB in my hands some years ago. It was with green solder mask and uses 3x 6116 SRAMs (= 6k total, with is enough for trackbuffer etc.). Also it uses a MASK ROM, not an EPROM. This way the special thing on all genuine Happy-PCBs and the reason, why long time no really full existing clone firmware exists. Most of the firmwares "in the wild" didn´t pass the Warp 7.x diagnostic tests for example - reason is the MASK ROM special thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Yes, same opinion here. I have had a real genuine Happy 1050 PCB in my hands some years ago. It was with green solder mask and uses 3x 6116 SRAMs (= 6k total, with is enough for trackbuffer etc.). Also it uses a MASK ROM, not an EPROM. This way the special thing on all genuine Happy-PCBs and the reason, why long time no really full existing clone firmware exists. Most of the firmwares "in the wild" didn´t pass the Warp 7.x diagnostic tests for example - reason is the MASK ROM special thing. I don't think the fact that the firmwares don't pass the diagnostics has much to do with the mask ROM protection. If the ROM checksum fails, the ROM test will fail. So all that it means is that those firmwares are just different from the two standard Happy ROM revs. It doesn't necessarily mean they are bad. They could be corrupted, or simply modified by a third party, didn't check myself. But I doubt they were a result of not being able to read the original ROM because of the protection. Otherwise the drive would probably not even boot at all. I'm not sure exactly when, but exact Happy clones appeared quite early. Note that only earlier boards have 6K. Once SRAM prices were low enough, Happy newer boards came with 8K RAM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 The Happy Warp speed is not *quite* as fast as USD, but it would be really difficult to determine that without running a benchmark. I always thought that the USD was a pain because of the disk format timing issues (standard vs. USD interleave). I had a Happy 810 in 1982 -- pretty rare back then. 1050 Happy drives are even better. The Archiver certainly stole a lot of it's thunder, though. Happy in 'Warp' speed (~38400) would have been slower than 'Ultra' speed (~57600) for sure... But with Ultra speed emulation in Happy 1050 the story changes.. Using a linear read from sector 1 to 720 using MyCopier I timed the following: USD Single Density: 44.5 Seconds Happy Single Density: 35.5 Seconds USD Double Density: 61s Happy Double Density: 56s USD does pretty well in DD! Of course, the USD only comes close when using disks specifically formatted with the ultraspeed skew, which as you mentioned was a pain.. Even worse when using those disks on stock drives they would be even slower than normal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 It is the same with a Turbo 1050, with a specifically formatted disk (= sector skew / sector interleave) and a turbo driver it reaches 68,000 Baud, thus it is even faster than ultraspeed drives (allthough it does not have any track buffer). But errmm, the special format was/is a pain, reading + writing to such turbo formatted disks with a standard 1050 works extremely slow; reading such turbo formatted disks with a Happy or Speedy makes no speed difference, but writing is again slower than normal. (On the other hand, if the Turbo 1050 only uses the turbo driver and NOT the special format, it either has standard speed or is not much faster than standard speed...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Forgot to benchmark WRITE times... USD Single Density 44.4s Happy Single Density 53s USD Double Density 60s Happy Double Density 71s USD write times pretty much exactly match read times. Happy writes are slower than Happy Reads or USD because it's also doing a read verify after writing each track. I have a Speedy 1050 coming from tf_hh, looking forward to trying real hardware thats faster than Happy/USD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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