Lost Dragon Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 I could'nt of seen Atari having the resources to pay for any limited time exclusive type deal to ensure Jaguar Rayman had even say a 6 week headstart over the other versions. Even when exclusives timed or other wise existed on the Sega Saturn (Tomb Raider debuted on Saturn did it not? rather than PS1? and Saturn had Quake at a time PS1 did'nt and in fact would never end up with, despite it being converted) or superior versions...of Hexen and Duke Nukem 3D, it did nothing to effect overal out come...people had simply made their minds up which platforms to get and why. In Jaguars (and 3DO's) case, so many simply stuck with existing hardware as they knew they were going to get a Saturn or Playstation and they'd be worth waiting for and Jaguar/3DO etc had done nothing to convince them to change their minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Lens of Truth did a very nice comparison of the PlayStation and Jaguar versions of Rayman a few years ago. The site doesn't seem to be up anymore, but thanks to the magic of archive.org, you can click the following link to read the article anyway: http://web.archive.org/web/20140407033326/http://www.lensoftruth.com/retro-head2head-rayman/ The companion video on YouTube can also be found here: https://youtu.be/F7QLvVKBmZE I hate to say it, but thought that was a rather poorly written and thought out comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I could'nt of seen Atari having the resources to pay for any limited time exclusive type deal to ensure Jaguar Rayman had even say a 6 week headstart over the other versions. Even when exclusives timed or other wise existed on the Sega Saturn (Tomb Raider debuted on Saturn did it not? rather than PS1? and Saturn had Quake at a time PS1 did'nt and in fact would never end up with, despite it being converted) or superior versions...of Hexen and Duke Nukem 3D, it did nothing to effect overal out come...people had simply made their minds up which platforms to get and why. In Jaguars (and 3DO's) case, so many simply stuck with existing hardware as they knew they were going to get a Saturn or Playstation and they'd be worth waiting for and Jaguar/3DO etc had done nothing to convince them to change their minds. I think the bottom line is is that the 3DO and Jaguar had to establish themselves in a big way well before the North American releases of the Saturn and PS1. It really didn't matter anymore what either did or didn't do in terms of exclusives, price cuts, bundles, etc., after the respective launches of the two systems that genuinely brought in the next generation in the eyes of the average videogame consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I hate to say it, but thought that was a rather poorly written and thought out comparison. Yeah, I suppose "very nice" is an overstatement, considering the rather amateurish quality of the writing. On the other hand, they did assemble a fairly good collection of screens and a video, which showed off several portions of each version of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Yeah, I suppose "very nice" is an overstatement, considering the rather amateurish quality of the writing. On the other hand, they did assemble a fairly good collection of screens and a video, which showed off several portions of each version of the game. I appreciated that part the most, as well as the video. However, I do take some issue with how they did the captures on both systems. I think they made the PS1's output fuzzier than it really is with that game. I would have much preferred maximum video quality captures from both rather than second worst on the Jaguar and worst on the PS1. As it is, I don't really think it really showcases the differences sufficiently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I appreciated that part the most, as well as the video. However, I do take some issue with how they did the captures on both systems. I think they made the PS1's output fuzzier than it really is with that game. I would have much preferred maximum video quality captures from both rather than second worst on the Jaguar and worst on the PS1. As it is, I don't really think it really showcases the differences sufficiently. They used composite on both, the worst output on the PSX would've been RF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I don't think that *Rayman* is as big today based on the game Rayman 1 but on Rayman 2.Then again, it might be another conspiracy... Maybe THEY made Rayman 1 so hard, so that the easier Rayman 2 should break the market, plant ideas i childens minds and slowly concuer the world, in their plan for world domination.They = ruled by a underground group that has existed in the shadows of civilisation for tousands of years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 David Icke... a Jaguar owner i wonder? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Did you know his full name is David Rayman Icke?All these patterns... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAGUAR Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 David Icke... a Jaguar owner i wonder? :-) Did you know his full name is David Rayman Icke? All these patterns... 6:54 in this video "platform fun" .. rayman.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 You are tying the knots well, illuminated friend.Have you pressed 6+6+6 on the title screen of Rayman? Don't. You'll get mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAGUAR Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 You are tying the knots well, illuminated friend. Have you pressed 6+6+6 on the title screen of Rayman? Don't. You'll get mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 :-) Next up..playing the music to Tempest 2000 backwards at a certain speed has a message from the OX God himself, instructing his children..... You heard it here 1st. Beware the moon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 Looking at the inital EDGE Preview (Oct'1994 issue) Jaguar version was originally planned for Xmas of that year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 Ok, it's not letting me edit the post above before anyone starts on :-) Anyway, during the magazine clear out, found Playstation Plus Oct'95 editions review of Rayman, which echoes point i made earlier about how i could'nt see Sony wanting game as an exclusive, due to PS1 media reaction to it. 2 reviewers, Matt, who thought it looked very pretty, but found it to be 1 of the most annoying platform games he'd ever played..a frustrating waste of time and 'without doubt, a right old piece of poo' and main reviewer, Rob:who thought it looked like a very polished 16 Bit game and played like one too..at best another platform game and at worst bloody annoying... Scores:Graphics 81, Animation 72, Sound FX 65, Music 55, Lastability 51, Playability 56 and Overall score 59%. Ironically very next review over was Raiden Project, Overall 72% and whilst reviewer Steve said it was'nt exactly what was expected from a 32Bit Machine, it had more playability than most interactive movies could offer, full stop.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilaskey Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I used to review Jaguar games in the UK for the various magazines. I had, I think 3 beta versions of Rayman back in the day, over a period of several months. Initially, it was being pushed as a Jag exclusive with all the info talking about how it favoured the Jag's architecture etc. Later on they did start talking about the PS1. My memory was that it was a few months between the final beta and it coming out but it's hazy now. I just checked my old review which does mention a delay between first versions and release of 1 year and I think that was based on the first beta, which was fully playable but only had a few levels, to the actual release. http://laskey.co.uk/atari-jaguar-rayman-review/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagCD Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I haven't seen exact sales figures for the PS1 version of Rayman, but it appears that, at minimum, over 6 million units were sold on that platform alone. Given the user base, I'd be shocked if the Jaguar version moved more than 50,000 units at the most optimistic numbers (meaning nearly 1 out of every 2 Jaguar owners bought a copy). It seems to me a smart business decision to make the game multiplatform since you'd be all but guaranteed that the Jaguar version would be the worst seller, with no "backroom dealings" necessary. With that said, considering how it sold on the other platforms and the franchise it launched that continues to this day, Ubisoft lost nothing by, at least for a time, having the Jaguar as the lead platform, because they were clearly able to see through their original vision without compromise (and also meaning no development was wasted since the other versions were near duplicates). That's certainly what few, if any other titles on the Jaguar can lay claim to. Considering how rare the Rayman cartridge seems to be -- I think even 50,000 copies might be optimistic. I've only remember seeing Rayman about 3 times in retail stores over the years. From my perspective, it was roughly as rare as Atari Karts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagCD Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) OK, so I did some more digging on this. The earliest I've seen someone say they owned the PSX Rayman was on 9/9/1995. It appears that the official release date for the Jag version was 9/19/1995, as stated above, but some stores sold it prior to then. I couldn't find any exact dates, but the point is there was no large delta in the release dates. I also found this information: My memory is pretty foggy about this -- but I did work at Electronics Boutique back in 1995..... I do recall there being a few weeks between the Rayman (Jaguar and PSX) releases and if I recall the Jaguar and PC versions hit our shelves first. I thought the PSX version showed up about a month or so later. There were so many games for so many platforms in 1995 -- that I just can't be certain. Edited April 6, 2015 by JagCD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Next up in terms of last of my 'research into' is Rayman. 'Official statement' from Ubisoft's Frank Slater at the time, had him explaining that as this was Ubisoft's 1st title on a then unfamilar platform, there was a learning curve which meant delays, these delays were not intentional, were'nt due to any strategic implications and had nothing what so ever to do with other versions now being annouced/planned. It was as simple as Ubisoft taking the time to get the games quality right, they could of looked at realising it few months earlier, but quality would'nt of been so good, plan was to get it ready for production for July 17th and into stores 4-5 weeks later. That was the company line regarding the issue at the time. Edited June 3, 2015 by Lost Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmOneGarand Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Legacy Of Kain and Soviet Strike started out on 3DO, then switched to PS1, Medievil was originally a Sega saturn project (still have the mag preview, quotes from developer here somewhere) before becoming a PS1 exclusive. Seems like quite a few start up devs that initially targeted 3DO but then jumped to PSX. Insomniac Games were initially going to make their first game for the 3DO but then decided to develop Disruptor for PSX. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 From my extensive research on Jag stuff online and in magazines, Jag Rayman was actually released atleast a week before the PlayStation version. Jaguar September 1st and PlayStation September 9th. I think what happened was, Rayman obviously began on the Jaguar. When Sony AND Sega saw it at trade shows, they wanted it on their PlayStation and Saturn. So, obviously Ubisoft would be thrilled to make their game for those systems also, they began work on those version when they were in the middle of working on the Jaguar version. This also lines up with the fact that magazines had SO many previews of the Jaguar version month after month. The work on the Jaguar version slowed down because they had begun working on PS1 and Saturn version alongside Jag version simultaneously... So I think there's a good chance all 3 versions were actually finished around the same time, actually... They might have had SNES And 32X demos of the game too at some point, but those probably only 5-10% game complete and scrapped early on, probably in early 1995. Had their only been a Jaguar version, it probably would have been finished by mid 1995, like May or June. But it took a few extra months as they were busy also working on other version. And even then PC too.. But I think that came quite a bit after, early to mid 1996? And even a DOS version too, and then Rayman began rather big and popular.. Too bad the 2d Rayman 2 was scrapped... Rayman was released on the Jaguar the week after it was released for the Playstation during that console's launch week. The conspiracy chatter happened online on various BBSes of the era and possibly even mentioned on Atari Explorer Online. The conspiracy is believable because the year before, Ubisoft sent out Rayman promotional material to registered Jaguar owners here in the States via mail and then nothing but silence for the most part after that. Why would Sony pay to delay the title instead of purchase exclusivity? Perhaps Sony was being cautious and not trying to draw the attention of the Feds. Remember, this was a few short years after all of the antitrust lawsuits - and Federal scrutiny - against Nintendo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Seems like quite a few start up devs that initially targeted 3DO but then jumped to PSX. Insomniac Games were initially going to make their first game for the 3DO but then decided to develop Disruptor for PSX. I have Disruptor for the PS1 and never knew that this wa sthe case. What I will say, however, is that whilst playing it, I did feel that it had a VERY 3DO "vibe" to it - the way the game looks, plays... not all that dissimilar to PO'ed if I'm honest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 From my extensive research on Jag stuff online and in magazines, Jag Rayman was actually released atleast a week before the PlayStation version. Jaguar September 1st and PlayStation September 9th. Really? I thought it was the opposite ... that PSX came the 1st and Jaguar the 9th. I actually bought my Jaguar that week, along with Rayman as the first game for it. I remember it was close though. not really sure I buy the conspiracy theory either. It's much easier from a marketing, production and distribution perspective to launch games closer together and PSX had a lot of momentum in general with the scads of cash Sony was throwing around for the launch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KappaGuy99 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Rayman was released on the Jaguar the week after it was released for the Playstation during that console's launch week. The conspiracy chatter happened online on various BBSes of the era and possibly even mentioned on Atari Explorer Online. FWIW, Atari Explorer Online was one of the main sources of information I had at the time, I used to read it on America Online all the time. I'm not sure if it was indeed on Atari Exlporer Online, but I do remember talk of a conspiracy regarding Rayman. It might have just been chatter in the newsgroups, however. I can't remember for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's much easier from a marketing, production and distribution perspective to launch games closer together and PSX had a lot of momentum in general with the scads of cash Sony was throwing around for the launch. I find this to the closest thing to the truth/reality: Why spend money on marketing twice, when you can launch everything at once with a solid marketing around it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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