The Jaguar version of Rayman Conspiracy

[Lynxpro]

Even assuming it was a full year of exclusivity (and not more like 6 months or so), again I ask what impact to console sales it really would have made? The Jaguar never sold a lick, period, so one game based around a new IP (and a platformer to boot) was not going to put it over the tipping point. The Jaguar couldn't even see the tipping point in terms of sales. They just weren't there, period. Rayman would have had to have been in that first year of the Jaguar's existence and paired up with several other killer titles to even begin to make an impact on the final outcome of the console. Selling a few hundred thousand consoles over its entire lifetime really puts a damper on most 'what if?' scenarios for the Jaguar, unfortunately.

 

Had Rayman been released that summer, perhaps with all of the hype surrounding it, let's say it sold 100K more Jaguars. That could've kept the doors open at Atari Corp for another month at the very least. Perhaps with that many more owners, it could've convinced the third party developers to put more effort into it. It could've had a snowball effect. We don't know. What we do know is that the game being held back from release by a year did hurt the Jaguar and led to this seemingly plausible conspiracy theory.

[JagCD]

I don't know that there's any conspiracy. Clueless management at Atari, crap controller (3 buttons), lots of crap games, crap 3rd party support.

 

I still don't understand how anyone released a 3 button controller in 1993..... I mean seriously, Super Famicom / Super Nintendo.....

Hello? Why does that system have better gamepads while being 3 years older (Japan)? Clearly Atari wasn't paying attention.

[Albert]

I still don't understand how anyone released a 3 button controller in 1993..... I mean seriously, Super Famicom / Super Nintendo.....

Hello? Why does that system have better gamepads while being 3 years older (Japan)? Clearly Atari wasn't paying attention.

Controllers weren't Atari's strong point. The 5200 and 7800 controllers are just atrocious in terms of comfort and usability. I rather like the Jaguar controllers, but it is too bad that the Pro controllers weren't the initial Jaguar controllers. Perhaps Atari thought, Hey, it's one more button than the 7800 controllers, plus it has a whole keypad!

 

..Al

[+save2600]

Haha, on the subject of Atari controllers, we should feel "lucky" we got a gamepad at all vs. some screwy update to the 5200 or 7800 joystick.

[+madman]

So the theory is that Rayman, one single game, could've made the Jaguar successful and overcome all the other obstacles that Atari had with itself and the Jaguar? Wow.

[Isgoed]

Oh no, finally a thread with some nice and peaceful discussions and there is the master troll, mad man, again.

[Lynxpro]

So the theory is that Rayman, one single game, could've made the Jaguar successful and overcome all the other obstacles that Atari had with itself and the Jaguar? Wow.

 

No, but it's absence was another wound to it.

[Atlantis]

Oh no, finally a thread with some nice and peaceful discussions and there is the master troll, mad man, again.

Just another round of black and white thinking ála madman.

 

Don't ever think you can say anything in favor for the Jaguar... not even the slightest... he will huuh huuuuhhh when you try to.

[phoenixdownita]

I don't think madman statement is that negative.

He's simply stating that assuming that Rayman could have single handedly saved the Jaguar is naive, Atari had a whole set of issues.

 

Could it have helped? Sure.

Was it a good game? Sure.

Was it a "killer app"? Debatable, but it was a good game.

 

It is way too obvious that delaying good games hurts sales, nobody is countering that, the opposite statement, that any single good selling games makes or break a whole console or company is not a given.

 

[

There were 2 non 3D Grand Theft Auto that passed mostly unnoticed before something substantial, the company had to keep working to attain real success.

 

I am not sure we can say the XBox original was successful only because of Halo, it helped a lot for sure but there was a lot more to it, especially given that the big splash was really Halo 2, something else had to be done right.

]

Edited June 8, 2015 by phoenixdownita

[Atlantis]

"huuuh hhhhuuuhh so YOU think that Rayman could save Atari by getting all the nintendo fans lining up to buy Jags, and create an ever lasting paradise on earth. Wooow..."

[+madman]

I don't think madman statement is that negative.

There are people on here who think that facts are "unlogic" or negative. Whereas saying a single game could've saved the Jaguar, and Atari as a whole, is seen as perfectly sensible.

[Atlantis]

There are people on here who think that facts are "unlogic" or negative. Whereas saying a single game could've saved the Jaguar, and Atari as a whole, is seen as perfectly sensible.

Here is the point, I never said anything like that, maybe someone else did. You just add several people's arguments into one that fits you black and white thinking.

 

It's you brain, build any "he said+he said+she said=you said" illusion you want. It's a bit disturbing that you bunch together people, and one day you might understand you problem (or if it is just troll fun, who knows).

 

Rayman couldn't save Jaguar. No way. They had 1000 of problems, Rayman being just 1. <<<<< remember I said that.

[phoenixdownita]

"you people"

 

Thinking that all the answers are directed to you is a little selfish, don't you think?

 

It's a forum with many voices, I think the tone so far has been very respectful so I don't see why you get so defensive and think all comments are directed towards you in particular.

If madman has some beef with you it's between the 2 of you, I for once don't care.

If you think I am attacking you personally, I apologize if I gave that impression, that was not the intent, I really don't care what you do or think for as long as I don't get damaged by it, and this being a forum on systems that have been dead for 20Y or so doesn't constitute damage no matter how divergent our OPINIONs may be.

 

I am interested in hearing on all opinions, I may still choose to not care about them though, nothing personal, and such choice is different post after post. I made mistakes in the past so I defend my right to make amends and change my mind.

 

Peace and love.

Edited June 8, 2015 by phoenixdownita

[Atlantis]

Thinking that all the answers are directed to you is a little selfish, don't you think?

 

It's a forum with many voices, I think the tone so far has been very respectful so I don't see why you get so defensive and think all comments are directed towards you in particular.

If madman has some beef with you it's between the 2 of you, I for once don't care.

 

all answers?? i thought madman just answered my attack (no defense here), and I answered his answer.

 

Thinking that all the answers are directed to you is a little selfish, don't you think? Stop post if you don't care, and don't get involved.

 

Love you too.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Atlantis

[Austin]

Thinking that all the answers are directed to you is a little selfish, don't you think? Stop post if you don't care, and don't get involved.

 

Hey, quit being a dick. K, thanks.

[JagChris]

Here is the point,

 

Rayman couldn't save Jaguar. No way. They had 1000 of problems, Rayman being just 1. <<<<< remember I said that.

 

 

This thread is specifically about the possibility of the Jaguar Rayman conspiracy and by extension it's possible affect on the Jaguar's fortune.

 

I think it had an affect.

[JagCD]

You know what -- Rayman was released so late in the Jaguar's life (September 1995) if I remember correctly.... I just don't see it making an impact.

That ship had already sailed by late 1995.... Remember, the PS1 launched right around that time..... It was already over.

 

However, if Atari was smart (which unfortunately probably wasn't the case).... They would have taken one of Atari's early quality releases like

Doom, Tempest 2000 or Alien Vs. Predator (ditching Cybermorph) and put together a better bundle for 1994. Priced well -- that would have sold

some systems.

 

Look at how Genesis sales rocketed up when Sonic became the pack-in. Back in the '90s, pack in games mattered.

Edited June 9, 2015 by JagCD

[NeoGeoNinja]

You know what -- Rayman was released so late in the Jaguar's life (September 1995) if I remember correctly.... I just don't see it making an impact.

That ship had already sailed by late 1995.... Remember, the PS1 launched right around that time..... It was already over.

 

However, if Atari was smart (which unfortunately probably wasn't the case).... They would have taken one of Atari's early quality releases like

Doom, Tempest 2000 or Alien Vs. Predator (ditching Cybermorph) and put together a better bundle for 1994. Priced well -- that would have sold

some systems.

 

Look at how Genesis sales rocketed up when Sonic became the pack-in. Back in the '90s, pack in games mattered.

 

IIRC though, were there not age ratings on both AvP & Doom, which would have prevented the pack-ins being as "widely" successful as a Mario, Sonic... or dare I say it... a Jaguar Rayman pack-in?

 

Remember, violence in video games was a big no-no in the 90's, so parents would be reluctant to buy a console with a 15+ title/M or T rated title for thier children > MD with Sonic or SNES with Mario. Nowadays, most parents couldn't give a f*ck and buy their kids COD, GTA, Assassins Creed and whatever other bloodshedding franchise adorns gamestore shelves nowadays...

[JagChris]

You know what -- Rayman was released so late in the Jaguar's life (September 1995) if I remember correctly....

 

 

You do remember correctly. You also seem to be missing a relevant point. What if it had released in September '94? A year earlier like it seems to have been geared up to?

[JagCD]

 

IIRC though, were there not age ratings on both AvP & Doom, which would have prevented the pack-ins being as "widely" successful as a Mario, Sonic... or dare I say it... a Jaguar Rayman pack-in?

 

Remember, violence in video games was a big no-no in the 90's, so parents would be reluctant to buy a console with a 15+ title/M or T rated title for thier children > MD with Sonic or SNES with Mario. Nowadays, most parents couldn't give a f*ck and buy their kids COD, GTA, Assassins Creed and whatever other bloodshedding franchise adorns gamestore shelves nowadays...

True, but keep in mind.... Doom ended up being one of the pack-in's for the Sega 32x. They could have done 2 bundles like Sega did (there was also a Virtua Racing bundle appropriate for all ages). Tempest 2000 for all ages, Doom for the adult audience. Both probably would have sold better than Cybermorph.

[JagCD]

 

 

You do remember correctly. You also seem to be missing a relevant point. What if it had released in September '94? A year earlier like it seems to have been geared up to?

 

I'm not sure it would have been enough as a stand alone game. As a pack-in title for a system bundle released for Christmas 1994 -- it could have turned the Jaguar into a modest success.

 

I think it really depends on what volume Atari was ultimately aiming for -- Were they really trying to beat Nintendo or Sega or simply trying to carve out a little niche like for themselves like 3DO or SNK?

 

I'm not sure the Tramiels ever explained the actual business strategy. Was their main goal big marketshare (Android) or profit margin per unit (Apple)? Did they even have a strategy?

Edited June 9, 2015 by JagCD

[Lost Dragon]

Martyn Brown (Team 17) has said it was a 'big problem' convincing Sony that a 2D game, like Worms, would be popular on the PS1, as at the time of the PS1's launch, there was a terrific drive to 3D games, almost to the extinction of 2D which was seen as basic and 'past it' and said he was aware Sony really did'nt see a fit for Worms on PS1, but relented in the end.

So, to myself it just does'nt 'fit' that Sony badly wanted Rayman, let alone to the point they'd pay to delay a version from appearing earlier on another platform, espically one they never viewed as a threat in any shape or form.

So regardless of what an earlier release might of done for the Jaguar, the game has never been something i've ever viewed as Sony feeling they needed, let alone must have, for PS1's fortunes.

[Atlantis]

 

Hey, quit being a dick. K, thanks.

Better be a complet dick from time to time, than a half-dick all the time.

 

Sometimes there's a good fight worth fighting: protecting the main reason to BE at this forum, greeting the holy Jaguar. But I'm done, don't worry.

 

We are not enemies for real - it's only the strong effect of the Ubisoft conspiracy!!

[+save2600]

Remember the manufactured/artificial delay UBI Soft put on the Wii-U version of Rayman Legends? They purposely screwed us and that system over, just so their other releases could play catch up. Another promise of theirs that wasn't worth a darn and one of the largest reasons I decided to sell my Wii-U. Was too fragile a time for 3rd parties to be screwing around like that and contributed to the feeling that the system wasn't going to be well supported. ha!

 

Does remind one of the Jaguar back then. Broken promise on top of broken promises. Little consumer confidence by much of anyone besides us true Atari gluttons.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Had Rayman been released that summer, perhaps with all of the hype surrounding it, let's say it sold 100K more Jaguars. That could've kept the doors open at Atari Corp for another month at the very least. Perhaps with that many more owners, it could've convinced the third party developers to put more effort into it. It could've had a snowball effect. We don't know. What we do know is that the game being held back from release by a year did hurt the Jaguar and led to this seemingly plausible conspiracy theory.

 

Sorry, but saying that Rayman by itself would have more than doubled sales to date of the console just doesn't fly with me. Anything is possible, though, so why not?