GlowingGhoul Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I understand the XE's are very prone to heat damage on the pcb. I have temp regulated equipment, so what's the appropriate temperature for desoldering/soldering on those boards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 63/37 solder melts at 180C (361F) but you need a higher temp on your iron to allow for heat transfer. Set your tip for 250C-270C and see if that melts the solder reasonably quickly. If you make the joint too hot for too long, the glue holding the trace to the board fails. If you then put any tension on it, it will separate from the board. I have good results with a de-soldering gun and waiting for it to cool down a little before I try to remove the component. If the wire/pin is not loose, I hit it again with the gun, wiggle the pin, visually check the hole for solder. I have a hot-air gun, but I haven't used it much. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlowingGhoul Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll be using a desoldering gun as well. Are the other 8-bit PCB's more robust? Which are the best built boards? Edited April 17, 2015 by GlowingGhoul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilsaluki Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I upgraded the XEGS with a temp-controlled soldering station. That sucked. I will never do it again. Obviously the socketed 800XLs are easiest to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I've worked on a lot of boards, never with temp controlled gear or heat guns - just medium wattage Antex irons and a solder sucker. 800 and 1200XL boards are very robust; XL boards less so, but of consistent quality. XEs vary: there's a darker green board which begs to fall apart in your hands and two paler variants I've seen which are tougher than my XLs and a pleasure to work on. Likewise the XEGS: there's a brownish PCB which is tough as boots, and a green version whose durability I'm not sure about yet. Best built boards, IMO: 800 and 1200XL. Never seen a 400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Best built boards, IMO: 800 and 1200XL. Never seen a 400. I don't currently have soldering equipment and have never soldered anything on my Atari machines, but to address that specific point: I've had both my 400's (one Sunnyvale and one Hong Kong) and both my 800's (both Sunnyvale) - the main PCBs are almost indistinguishable between the 400's and 800's in terms of color, silkscreening, density and "heft", etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlowingGhoul Posted April 18, 2015 Author Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) I've worked on a lot of boards, never with temp controlled gear or heat guns - just medium wattage Antex irons and a solder sucker. 800 and 1200XL boards are very robust; XL boards less so, but of consistent quality. XEs vary: there's a darker green board which begs to fall apart in your hands and two paler variants I've seen which are tougher than my XLs and a pleasure to work on. Likewise the XEGS: there's a brownish PCB which is tough as boots, and a green version whose durability I'm not sure about yet. Best built boards, IMO: 800 and 1200XL. Never seen a 400. That's very useful information. I have several 130XE's here, and have to decide which to install several upgrades into, including VBXE. I'm comparing the PCB colors (by looking at the exposed portion by the cart and expansion port) and one is very dark green and the others lighter green. Two of the lighter green ones seem to have bubbling under the trace I can see behind the cart port. I assume this is a sign of corrosion? Should I give up on those boards or is this ok? These are on brand new 130XE's right out of the box. Solder points are bright and shiny though....I would have assumed they'd be dull with oxidation if the board was exposed to high humidity. Edited April 18, 2015 by GlowingGhoul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotharek Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 geee... weller : PB free - 400 C pb - 350 C desoldering with Denon sc700 - 400C i like it hot :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlowingGhoul Posted April 18, 2015 Author Share Posted April 18, 2015 geee... weller : PB free - 400 C pb - 350 C desoldering with Denon sc700 - 400C i like it hot :-) The vacuum desoldering guns seem to be the way to go. I had never seen the Denon before, it's similar the Hakko. I'm using Weller for soldering and a Pace Sodr-x-tractor for desoldering. You use those temps on XE's? No problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 geee... weller : PB free - 400 C pb - 350 C desoldering with Denon sc700 - 400C i like it hot :-) I go 350C with Pb solder. I like to solder fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 That's very useful information. I have several 130XE's here, and have to decide which to install several upgrades into, including VBXE. I'm comparing the PCB colors (by looking at the exposed portion by the cart and expansion port) and one is very dark green and the others lighter green. Two of the lighter green ones seem to have bubbling under the trace I can see behind the cart port. I assume this is a sign of corrosion? Should I give up on those boards or is this ok? These are on brand new 130XE's right out of the box. Solder points are bright and shiny though....I would have assumed they'd be dull with oxidation if the board was exposed to high humidity. The 'bubbles' are most likely the solder that they use to tin the board. It isn't always smooth, but no matter. It isn't corrosion. The green conformal coating is prevented from covering the 'solder points', which makes them look so nice. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumzyman Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 I have to agree with Lotharek.. 330-350c for soldering and 350-400c for desoldering Using Xytronic 988D solder station. Just don't linger too long on any one point. If all the solder isn't removed on the first pass let it cool down while you go on to others and come back to it later. Also, it can be helpful to reflow the old solder with some new because (i believe) the new solder's flux rewets the joint. If its really old or cruddy looking you can also apply flux directly to the joint before trying to desolder. Just don't go crazy with it, If your using a vacuum based desoldering system it can get clogged up from the extra flux and you'll have to clean it out . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Z Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 That's very useful information. I have several 130XE's here, and have to decide which to install several upgrades into, including VBXE. I'm comparing the PCB colors (by looking at the exposed portion by the cart and expansion port) and one is very dark green and the others lighter green. Two of the lighter green ones seem to have bubbling under the trace I can see behind the cart port. I assume this is a sign of corrosion? Should I give up on those boards or is this ok? These are on brand new 130XE's right out of the box. Solder points are bright and shiny though....I would have assumed they'd be dull with oxidation if the board was exposed to high humidity. the bubbling is more likely that solder wicked it's way under the soldermask. I've seen that as it's happening, nothing to worry about if that's what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 And when soldering make sure its 60/40 solder, this new lead free stuff is awful to work with, does not flow and you end up with a solder ball in many cases.. I used a 18W Antex iron when I worked on PCB's, good temp and decent bit selection. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 That's the same iron I used to use but I upped to 25W eventually since 18W couldn't cope with larger components. 100 per cent agree regarding 60/40 solder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I won't argue against that the leaded solder works the best, because it does. And probably for most any of us in these forums it's the stuff you want to use. But... lead is quite toxic, and for those who solder a lot, it might be smarter to become proficient with the unleaded variety. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Oh indeed, for someone who is constantly soldering then you would be mad to not go the safe route but for the odd job here and there then I'd be happy to keep using the 60/40. I just found the unleaded totally frustrating to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 60/40 is the stuff, even if you have to wear a mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Z Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I won't argue against that the leaded solder works the best, because it does. And probably for most any of us in these forums it's the stuff you want to use. But... lead is quite toxic, and for those who solder a lot, it might be smarter to become proficient with the unleaded variety. Just saying. there's nothing wrong with lead solder in the toxicity department, as long as you wear gloves. Even without gloves, the toxicity level is still pretty low as long as you don't eat it. Lead doesn't vaporize easily, the smoke you see is rosin core flux fumes, which can also be toxic, but that's not the lead. anyway, just have proper ventilation, and wear gloves if you're really concerned about it. But they didn't get rid of lead so much for the people working with it, it's easy enough to be safe with lead. They moved to unleaded solder so that if electronics DID end up in a landfill, there was no lead to leech into the ground water. Edited April 20, 2015 by Joey Z 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlowingGhoul Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 And when soldering make sure its 60/40 solder, this new lead free stuff is awful to work with, does not flow and you end up with a solder ball in many cases.. I used a 18W Antex iron when I worked on PCB's, good temp and decent bit selection. Wouldn't 63/37 be preferable for the lower melting point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Wouldn't 63/37 be preferable for the lower melting point? Although those are the correct proportions its commonly known as 60/40 in the electronics / component field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I don't wear gloves when I solder and I don't have good ventilation where I solder. I find some soldering challenging enough without loosing any dexterity. Also, the garage would be the only place at home I could really get decent ventilation, but it is not conducive to the task. I suppose I probably get more lead from handling ammunition anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlowingGhoul Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 I've been soldering for decades without ventaliation aaaaanndee ittts nnevr hert mee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I've been soldering for decades without ventaliation aaaaanndee ittts nnevr hert mee. I'm guessing you only type because your on a ventilator these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNIXcoffee928 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 ...They moved to unleaded solder so that if electronics DID end up in a landfill, there was no lead to leech into the ground water. Isn't this the same "They" that painted all ship's hulls below the waterline with red-lead for over a hundred years, sank innumerable tons of ships filled with innumerable tons of lead ammunition & leaded oil onboard in every ocean, sea, and large lake, and lobbed innumerable tons of lead artillery-fire into the water-table of mainland Europe, up until a few years ago? Ha. This "They" that you speak of also said that it was fine & dandy for kids to play with lead soldiers, & lead toys of every description, for hundreds of years, ha. Yes, it was this "They" that allowed & encouraged Leaded Petroleum for automobiles, until fairly recently. Ha. So nice that They are looking out for us, nowadays. Landfill & Groundwater, Ha! The nerve! lol. Regardless of what They say, lead solder & a used, professional, sky-blue, temperature-controlled Weller soldering station off of ebay takes all of the guesswork out of soldering. Radio shack soldering irons are great for destroying traces on a PCB... get a good blue "microprocessor-controlled" Weller, and never worry about lifting traces, ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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