+GoldenWheels Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 You know, how the TG-16 is often regarded as a shmup system? I feel like the 7800 could have created a solid shmup reputation if it just had...shmups. I've always played Joust (one of my all time fav games, if not the favorite) on the 7800 and been impressed at how many things are moving around the screen with no slowdown. Robotron pushes a lot of sprites around too. Of course these are not shooters in the shmup sense, but the point is MARIA. I know enough about MARIA now to know that sprites are it's strength, specifically moving many sprites with little flicker or slowdown. But I never connected that to the shoot'em up genre. So now I have the Sirius and Plutos carts (thanks to all involved there, very happy to have them). And playing them, I keep thinking....man, THESE were the kind of games that (hypothetically) could have helped back in the day. THESE are the kind of games where I actually see the untouched/untapped potential in the 7800 so many here talk about. Both games run pretty fast and very smooth, look good, and play well (Sirius is hard but I am getting better....finally hit level 4 last night and much cheering was heard). There's even some nice scrolling if I am correct. Damn do I wish the 7800 had more shmups. Then, AND now. This system needed and needs more shmups! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Yep, coulda been. But it wasn't. (This topic is dangerously Jaguaresque, BTW. )Anything could be anything if some thing or things were done or happened differently. That's where homebrews come in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Yep, coulda been. But it wasn't. (This topic is dangerously Jaguaresque, BTW. ) Anything could be anything if some thing or things were done or happened differently. That's where homebrews come in. Haha completely understood, trust me. I'm usually the guy thinking "wait, you think Junkyard Dog or Midnight Mutants is impressive/good?' when this kind of woulda/coulda/shoulda vs the NES or other contemporaries conversation comes up. Just seems like a PB and J situation here. System has an obvious strength, the shmup genre could maximize that strength. Sure wish they had done so then. I think they "shoulda". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) It lacks more SHMUPS like it lacks in many other key genres simply because the developer/publisher pool was so poor. At least Sega with the Master System was able to overcome Nintendo's third party lockdown by both having prodigious first party output and aligning themselves with more of the few quality third parties that were free to make games. Of course this lack of adapting to the new way of conducting console business was a problem that would continue to plague Atari right to the bitter end. Edited April 21, 2015 by Bill Loguidice 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 On the subject of shoulda/woulda - imagine if Konami had been a 7800 developer and all the great games we'd be playing today still. Gradius quickly comes to mind as an excellent and doable schmup for the 7800. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8th lutz Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 It is true that the Atari 7800 would've been a great Shoot'em up system, but at least Bob has improved the amount of Shooters the Atari 7800 has. The top 2 genres Bob has done is Shooters and Labyrinth/maze. Bob has done other genre's, but not in the The Atariage store has 10 shooter games that Bob did. If Bob completes defender, that would make it 11 homebrew shooters. While Bob hasn't done mid 1980's to late 1980's shooter style game games, his shooters are great fit to the Atari 7800's late 1970's/ early 1980's style games game library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 It is true that the Atari 7800 would've been a great Shoot'em up system, but at least Bob has improved the amount of Shooters the Atari 7800 has. The top 2 genres Bob has done is Shooters and Labyrinth/maze. Bob has done other genre's, but not in the The Atariage store has 10 shooter games that Bob did. If Bob completes defender, that would make it 11 homebrew shooters. While Bob hasn't done mid 1980's to late 1980's shooter style game games, his shooters are great fit to the Atari 7800's late 1970's/ early 1980's style games game library. Very true. I was lucky enough to get his multicart and really enjoy the games but as you note, they are more the earlier style, be it Moon Cresta or Astro Blaster or what have you. Still very good, but not what I am really longing for. (I really like his Crazy Brix too. While I am wishing, I wish there was another paddle 7800 game as well--I guess that makes my ultimate dream an updated version of Tac Scan.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 "wait, you think Junkyard Dog or Midnight Mutants is impressive/good?' Midnight Mutants? Yep! :-) Scrapyard Dog needed a bit more polish to make it easier IMO. But it proved a point long debated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Midnight Mutants? Yep! :-) Scrapyard Dog needed a bit more polish to make it easier IMO. But it proved a point long debated. I should have worded that better Drac....I don't mean to say it's not good (or Dog for that matter). I meant to say when people use it as an example of the promise shown by the 7800 and how it might have competed with the NES....I just don't see it, other than it just being a different game type for the system (which is always good to have more variety). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I should have worded that better Drac....I don't mean to say it's not good (or Dog for that matter). I meant to say when people use it as an example of the promise shown by the 7800 and how it might have competed with the NES....I just don't see it, other than it just being a different game type for the system (which is always good to have more variety). Ha. Having owned a 7800 back "in the day", there was this underlying view from my friends who had NESes that the system had certain limitations based upon the early library. A lot of those games were single screen or limited variety games, which led to the impression that 7800s couldn't play "advanced" games. I actually heard this a few times from people who played Karateka or Food Fight and then assumed a scroller like Super Mario wasn't possible. After the XEGS debacle, Atari started paying attention to the feedback by showing that "NES type" games were absolutely possible. If you look at their 89-90 games, you see it more. Alien Brigade, Commando, Scrapyard Dog, Ikari Warriors, Dark Chambers, Tower Toppler, Midnight Mutants, Ninja Golf, Basketbrawl ... all had more of that NES-like feel than Ms Pac Man, Choplifter, etc. The NES and SMS have too many games to compare to the 7800s small library, but in those cases, it kind of proved that the 7800 could do more than a better Dig Dug when inclined. And makes one wonder what might have happened had something like Nintendo's EAD team been given a year to make a 7800 title and then put it on a 3 megabit cart? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 That's a very good point for me Drac as I didn't own one back in the day. I had a 2600 still while everyone had a NES (hand me down), and then got an XE before I had my first NES. I can see at that time how the technological angle of a scrolling or multi screen game giving some Atari fans hope. It's hard to be impressed by that without the right timing in mind but I get it. I just wish there were more shooters for the 7800. I know they weren't quite the cult genre they are now (as in, there are people who buy systems just for the shootemups) but the type of game seems to dovetail so well with what the 7800 does well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Sounds like Warp Warp (maze) and Gradius or Salamander (shooter) would be pretty good matches for the hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Damn do I wish the 7800 had more shmups. Abracadabra! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojrz3vDvqbA Source: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/222190-new-programmer-questions/?do=findComment&comment=3223298 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 On the subject of shoulda/woulda - imagine if Konami had been a 7800 developer and all the great games we'd be playing today still. Gradius quickly comes to mind as an excellent and doable schmup for the 7800. Their own port of Gyruss on the NES is terrible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Like A Boss... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su63DF2J3dg Source: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/222190-new-programmer-questions/?do=findComment&comment=3223517 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 That's a cool Shoot-Em-Up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8th lutz Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Very true. I was lucky enough to get his multicart and really enjoy the games but as you note, they are more the earlier style, be it Moon Cresta or Astro Blaster or what have you. Still very good, but not what I am really longing for. (I really like his Crazy Brix too. While I am wishing, I wish there was another paddle 7800 game as well--I guess that makes my ultimate dream an updated version of Tac Scan.) I do think there could slightly later arcade port shooters from him down the road if he still programs 7800 games and depending on what genres he does at the time. I agree about Crazy Bix. Bob never did a bad game, but there are some genres that he usually doesn't do a lot of. There is a 2nd paddle game Bob did. He did Super Circus Atariage for the Atari 7800 as a paddle game, but it hasn't been released yet due to it being an Atari 7800 XM game due to it having the Pokey sound chip and High score card features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8th lutz Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 That is one promising shoot'em up that youtube video is showing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 There is a 2nd paddle game Bob did. He did Super Circus Atariage for the Atari 7800 as a paddle game, but it hasn't been released yet due to it being an Atari 7800 XM game due to it having the Pokey sound chip and High score card features. Ah ha, good to know. I love paddle games, there is just something so.....'Atari' about them. I'll admit I haven't learned much about the XM because....well I wasn't on the list and assumed I may never get a chance to buy one anyway. When the time comes would I have to have the XM to play the game? Or might it work fine, just without pokey/HSC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Abracadabra! Source: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/222190-new-programmer-questions/?do=findComment&comment=3223298 Now THAT is the kind of game I am looking for Trebor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8th lutz Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) Ah ha, good to know. I love paddle games, there is just something so.....'Atari' about them. I'll admit I haven't learned much about the XM because....well I wasn't on the list and assumed I may never get a chance to buy one anyway. When the time comes would I have to have the XM to play the game? Or might it work fine, just without pokey/HSC? I don't think Super Circus Atariage can be played without the XM due to the pokey feature. I am going by the XM hardware/game details topic. Edited April 23, 2015 by 8th lutz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I don't think Super Circus Atariage can be played without the XM due to the pokey feature. I am going by the XM hardware/game details topic. Huh? My cartridge plays just fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I don't think Super Circus Atariage can be played without the XM due to the pokey feature. I am going by the XM hardware/game details topic.It will work just no sound. Some people got pokey chipped carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinju Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Their own port of Gyruss on the NES is terrible. Disagree with this, Gyruss on the NES played smooth, had a pretty amazing and kicking sound track and was faster paced then the other home ports. Sure it was a different variation of the Arcade port but I thought Ultra did pretty good with it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldenWheels Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Disagree with this, Gyruss on the NES played smooth, had a pretty amazing and kicking sound track and was faster paced then the other home ports. Sure it was a different variation of the Arcade port but I thought Ultra did pretty good with it. I agree. I have next to no experience with the arcade version but I very much like Gyruss on the NES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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