Atari 2600 Heavy Sixer Voltage Regulator and capacitor question

[Wyluli Wolf]

I have 3 Atari 2600 units and all have some video issues. After scouring the internet and the forums here it sounds like replacing the voltage regulator and possibly the mylar "green chicklet" capacitor near it may resolve the issues.

 

Can anyone tell me if these particular voltage regulators will work for the Heavy Sixers?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-10-Pcs-Lot-GlodStar-GL7805-Voltage-Regulator-Fixed-Positive-IC-3-Pin-5V-1A-/271217211308?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f25ce37ac

 

And will these capacitors work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E-Projects-0-22uF-100V-5-Mylar-Film-Capacitor-10-Pcs-/171174161366?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dac66bd6

 

 

Here is a run down of the systems and symptoms for those who are curious:

 

1. Atari 4 switch - Picture is lightly fuzzy all over and color is faded. (I'm guessing I may need different capacitors and regulators for this one, I'll have to look it up again)

 

2. Atari heavy sixer - Starts out fine. After playing for about 15 minutes or so the colors start to change. Pitfall will change from green trees to pretty fall colors like bright orange.

 

3. Atari heavy sixer number 2 - Color is off drastically. Pitfall trees turn dark blue. It's not the adjustable color pot as I tried adjusting it. Seems to get worse the longer it's on.

 

Any other thoughts or advice are welcome.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[7800fan]

One: any 7805 will work. 2600 generally won't need more than 300mA so even the lower power 500mA version should work.

eBay Auction -- Item Number: 261243604047 is another option, a little more efficient and less heat than a plain vanilla 7805's A little more expensive but with less heat, no need to remount them on the PCB for heat sinking.

 

Also generally you don't need to replace those caps. Only one big fat cap near the voltage regulator has a chance of going bad due to age: most electrolytic uses liquid interior and dries out over time. Ceramic, mylar, etc rarely go bad. Tantalum is the other capacitor that one needs to keep an eye on but none are used in Atari 2600. (generally when tantalum goes bad, they go out in spectacular firework)

[CPUWIZ]

One: any 7805 will work. 2600 generally won't need more than 300mA so even the lower power 500mA version should work.

 

Sure, if you don't use something like a Harmony cart and a SaveKey or AtariVox+, or better yet, both at the same time.

[iesposta]

I have had to replace 3 green Mylar capacitors, right next to the 7805 regulator to clear a snowy picture in Heavy Sixer and 4 Switch Woody. The heat from the 7805 must kill them.

 

Newer ones have 0.1uF and older ones have 0.22uF.

I have used a 0.22uF to replace a 0.1uF and it works just great.

I have never had to replace a 7805 or any other cap, and I have about 10 2600 compatible systems.

[+Stephen Moss]

One: any 7805 will work. 2600 generally won't need more than 300mA so even the lower power 500mA version should work.

 

Not all regulators are created equal (although they should be), I have found some can be way off, i.e. 4.2 volts for a 5V regulator. Personally I would look for National Semicondutor (taken over by Texas) regulators if you can find them as they tend to be very good and go for the 800mA/1A version as per the original.

 

If the 300mA quoted above if correct a 500mA version would be able to supply the current however you need to check the power dissipation which needs to be at least 1.5 Watts (allows a 0.3W overhead) at 300mA if you want to avoid it going into thermal shutdown, personally I would be looking for something that could dissipate 2 Watts or more as I like to leave plenty of overhead.

I would also look for something in a TO220 package as per the original 7805, as I recall it lies flat on the PCB, consequently the copper area below it not only acts as possibly another ground connection to the device but also as a heat sink, if you use one with an all plastic or all ceramic package (no metal tab) the heat transfer to the heat sink is less efficient (Metal contact is best, Ceramic is OK, Plastic is poor)

[Wyluli Wolf]

Ok, so if I'm understanding correctly I may or may not need to replace the caps and/or the voltage regulator. I guess it's gonna be a crap shoot on which one to try first to resolve the picture issues.

 

The capacitors I have listed in my first post will work on all 3 Atari systems as they are .22uf 100v. correct?

 

The voltage regulators I have listed may be of questionable quality? I don't see anything to indicate the mA rating but then I'm pretty new to electronics. Any way to tell this? (pardon my ignorance)

They are listed as TO-220:
10 Pack - GoldStar GL7805 3-Pin Voltage Regulator, Linear IC. Fixed Positive, 5.0V-18.0V 1.0A. Type: 7805 - T0 220. These items are new, repackaged for shipment from a multi-unit carton.

Aside from making sure they are 5V and 1A I'm not sure what else to check for.

These look interesting but are pricey and I imagine one would have to remove the finned heatsink to install them. Maybe it is worth it if the quality is really good?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261243604047?rmvSB=true

 

Thanks again. Just want to be sure I replace with decent parts and the right ones!

[iesposta]

As I said I have only ever had to replace this green capacitor.

It is the green capacitor right next to the 7805 voltage regulator. Ignore the blue and white wires, those are for an LED I put into the Power Toggle shaft.

 

Edit: The only other things that I have read go bad are the gray 1977 power supplies, or any old power supply for that matter, physically broken joystick ports or switches, and static shock can kill an IC and controller input will act strange.

Edited April 28, 2015 by iesposta

[Wyluli Wolf]

I've ordered the mylar capacitors from my initial post. I'll try replacing that on my 4 switcher first since a snowy picture seems to be a common failure symptom.

I'm not sure if replacing that same capacitor on the 6 switchers will clear up the issues they are having with the funky color changing. It's worth a shot though.

 

I still wonder if it would be a good idea to replace the voltage regulator as well while I'm at it. I found this information:

"The older regulators were only designed to carry half an amp of power and, when turned on, they can come close to that limit. Newer regulators are able to withstand up to a full amp of power which means it will still do the same job, but at only half of it's rated load. This makes it more efficient and results in a cooler running IC."

Info was found on this website: http://codyfrazier.com/instructionals/electronic-restoration/atari-2600-voltage-regulator-repair.html

 

Thanks again.

[Osgeld]

I replace the voltage regulator in just about anything that comes across my hands, buying them from digikey cost like 25 cents a pop, its almost irresponsible not to while your in there considering they get unregulated power fed to them, they are usually set next to, sometimes attached to puny joke heat sinks (my jr came direct from the 80's with purple metal about a cm above where the heat sink was suposta be attached!),and while their loads are in acceptable tolerances, its usually on the high side of acceptable which means they have been baking in there for decades.

 

by acceptable I mean not looking at their max rating of 1 amp, its heat dissipation (its very unlikely your going to suck an amp out of something screwed to a scrap of sheetmetal)

 

considering (Vin - Vout) * load = power

 

one could expect a good ole fashioned "9 volt" transformer wall plug to be floating closer to 10 while under ~70% load (it will be more like 12 with no load), sooo (10-5) * 300 = 1500mW, that's using the lowball current draw of the system, my Jr usually hovers closer to 360ish but anyway

 

A standard spec on the LM7085 (and many of its varients) says it rises 65C per watt, so we know its 1.5W*65 = 97.5 ish degrees without a heatsink (or 207 degrees F) absolute max temp before it starts going into shutdown is 125C. (ignoring the fact there's a 5C offset internal to the part so the die is really more like 103C)

 

Course they screw it to a strip of metal and call it a day, it works fine for 30 years, it may work fine for another 30, if it fails it can do two things, it can just not work anymore, or it can send fully unregulated 9+ volts though every sensitive chip on your board... is 25 cents and 10 min of time worth the risk?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Osgeld

[Osgeld]

oh and your article is bumkisk, the difference tween new and old is the technology used to make the circuit inside the regulator, older circuits use more power to function, more power = more heat ... doesnt matter if its 500ma or 5A the same rule applies with all linear regulators (switchers like the one above that 7800 linked to follow a whole different set of rules and have a whole different set of problems)

 

(Vin - Vout) * load = power

power * temp rise = operating temp

Edited April 29, 2015 by Osgeld

[Wyluli Wolf]

Took some measurements from the regulator in one of my six switchers. The incoming measured between 10.4 and 11 The adapter is a 9vdc 500ma adapter.

 

The outgoing measured 5.08

 

Still waiting for the capacitors to arrive and still undecided on which regulators to purchase

Edited April 29, 2015 by Wyluli Wolf

[Wyluli Wolf]

I guess I can order something from Jameco. Is Texas Instruments worth the price increase?
I'm guessing some brands like Goldstar are junk?

 

And you have to spend $10 to get $2 worth of parts

[Osgeld]

yes its normal for unregulated transformer wall adapters to float all over the place

 

It (the second part) doesnt appear to be any different except for the max temperature, which in reality a high temp part is the same thing with a certification saying it wont crap out above its not certified temp and below the elevated temp

Edited April 30, 2015 by Osgeld

[Wyluli Wolf]

Parts ordered ( crud, gotta order thermal paste yet). Went with the Jameco items and ordered breadboard to make up the price difference.

Plan to use my simple generic 25w solder iron to do the job. If it's a bad idea, let me know. I think sometimes it gets to be paralysis by analysis so....

 

Thanks for all the input!

Edited April 30, 2015 by Wyluli Wolf

[Osgeld]

25 watt might give you a bit of grief removing the old one, the center pin is ground so its attached to that metal tab that screws into the heatsink, and ground is usually a large plane or at least a fat trace, might be easier to cut the legs off the old one and remove it pin by pin

 

putting the new one back on is not as hard

[Wyluli Wolf]

Alright, I opened up Atari heavy sixer #2 and here is what I discovered:

 

Someone has worked on this machine before. The game select and reset switches appear to have been replaced:

 

So I went ahead and replaced the voltage regulator AND the green chicklet near it:

Here it is after the replacement:

 

Put it back together and STILL having the same issue. Opened it up to tinker with re-seating the chips and discovered that the TIA seems to have been replaced as well:

 

 

There also appears to be a solder job between the capacitor just to the right of the color adjustment knob and the corner of another chip...

Here is a sample of what is going on. Notice it fires up pink right away and quickly shifts colors, and when going left the water is orange. This happens right away, no warm up time needed.

 

https://vid.me/Ae4x

 

Any other idea's on what is wrong? I'm wondering if that last guy gave up on it.....

Edited May 2, 2015 by Wyluli Wolf

[iesposta]

The gray TIA are the first (oldest) ones. I don't like them.

Of course I run games that push the boundaries, and I noticed some graphic glitches go away with a different, not gray, TIA.

 

I don't know what that is with the capacitor between the 6507 chip and the RIOT chip.

Maybe a few more pictures from different angles? I can't tell what that red/orange part is.

 

With the white sockets and the gray TIA chip and the Harrisburg connector, that is most probably an early Heavy Sixer motherboard. Just my guess, though. I have one, and as I said I replaced the gray TIA. I would say it is still glitchy, but not color changing like yours. I noticed mine has a RIOT chip number that is even lower than what I've found online. Same with the TIA chip number.

 

I wanted a Sears H6 model. The Sears worked for about 10 minutes, then went black. I swapped the motherboard of the Harrisburg gray TIA Heavy Sixer into the Sears, and then used the Sears' newer TIA.

[Wyluli Wolf]

The gray TIA are the first (oldest) ones. I don't like them.

Of course I run games that push the boundaries, and I noticed some graphic glitches go away with a different, not gray, TIA.

 

I don't know what that is with the capacitor between the 6507 chip and the RIOT chip.

Maybe a few more pictures from different angles? I can't tell what that red/orange part is.

 

With the white sockets and the gray TIA chip and the Harrisburg connector, that is most probably an early Heavy Sixer motherboard. Just my guess, though. I have one, and as I said I replaced the gray TIA. I would say it is still glitchy, but not color changing like yours. I noticed mine has a RIOT chip number that is even lower than what I've found online. Same with the TIA chip number.

 

I wanted a Sears H6 model. The Sears worked for about 10 minutes, then went black. I swapped the motherboard of the Harrisburg gray TIA Heavy Sixer into the Sears, and then used the Sears' newer TIA.

Well, looks like at least the first heavy sixer is the TIA chip. I pulled one from a 4 switcher (REALLY HARD TO GET OUT!) and put it in the sixer and it seems to be running without issue now. I'll have to give it more time to be positive, but it seems good to go after adjusting the color.

That being the case I'm guessing the second heavy sixer also needs a TIA chip since the issue is the same. Plus I'll need one to put in the 4 switcher (if I didn't kill it when I pulled the chip!).

Is Best Electronics (e.g. the worlds worst looking website) the only place to find these now? Other than pulling one from another system of course.....

 

I had assumed the chip was replaced because it was grey, but you are right. It's an older chip. I found a website that listed a bunch of different TIA chips....

 

Thanks!

[JATO]

I would stay away from those switching regulators. They create a lot of RFI not sure how that would affect a 2600, but may interfere with other electronics.. I just got a sears H6 with a later C016353 Made in TAIWAN it's putting out 13.20 v. I know thats within spec for the regultor but that seems on the high side to me..Any suggestions on a aftermarket power supply ? And Yes I would definatley replace all those old electrolitic caps they dont cost much and they are way overdue in all 2600's.. I suggest Panasonic for electrolitic Caps..

[Osgeld]

yes, I agree a no cost lowest quality possible switching regulator inside the console can cause unexpected issues, cause other than "yep its good" there has been no test on it

 

external power supplies however switching is the way to go, nice compact, very efficient and dead nuts on voltage, which means heat is more predictable vs a transformer which varies voltage with load and 2 birds humping on the power line while some dude is taking a whizz next to the dam

 

one I tend to go for is

 

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/EPS090066-P1P/T979-P1P-ND/1016855

Edited May 16, 2015 by Osgeld

[Wyluli Wolf]

Best also sells Atari power adapters.
http://www.best-electronics-ca.com/2600_Tech_Tips.htm#based

 

Though the shipping cost may not be worth it unless you want to purchase other items as well.

[JATO]

HI Wyluli WOLF, I was looking at your pic of the power side of your switch board and my board ,just got my SH6er. Pull one end of that Carbon Comp Reistor and check it. needs to be 68 Ohms 5% tolerance, Carbon Comps tend to drift around Alot with age and temp.. I would replace it with a Non Inductive, Composition Type Metal or Film Type 5 watt resistor. The fact they chose a 5% resister tells me that that resistor needs to be pretty close for the circuit to function properly and not slide around much. I would also clean the color pot, I use Deoxiot Fader 100% Consentrate and then work the pot back and forth. The Deoxit will not leave the pot dry it lubricates it. Regular contact cleaner leaves the pot dry..

[JATO]

I decided to try a Cap upgrade for the two Mylar 0.22 100v Caps in my SH6ER so here's what I found. I replaced the Mylar Cap next to the Regulator with a 0.47 200v Polypropylene and the one higher on the switch board with a 0.22 200v Polypropylene cap, and my RF is much cleaner, and I don't think the 200v are as likely to fail..Thinking of putting a 0.01 100v Poly bypass cap at under the power input plug.

[mikesrv]

Wyluli, These Atari modules had amazingly designed circuits which would work even if some components blew out. I think replacing the voltage regulator and capacitor would simply work since I doubt that they’d be working correctly by now. If you’re going to change the voltage regulators, make sure that you insert ones with higher current rating. 0.5A or 1A regulators would work like a charm.

 

Regards,

Mike S.

http://blog.7pcb.com

[Oge]

I suggest a 7805CV. You will be just perfect with that as it is capable of 1,5A.

 

 

Cheers,

Oge