Lost Dragon Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 :-) Sure i'll get 'flak' for multiple threads, but since there's no official Lost Jaguar Game thread anymore, i've had to split this and the Conan info into multiple threads, but anywho: Hot on the heels of finally getting answers to what happened to: Jaguar Conan, i can know pass on info i've just had from Alex Trowers, Lead designer, Bullfrog, regarding claims of on Magic Carpet appearing on the Jaguar CD: Over to Alex: "We definitely had a Jaguar kicking around - but it didn't really have the legs (or install base) to warrant a version of Magic Carpet. I think most of us were Amiga, although the ST had it's champion in the form of Glenn. Personally, I preferred Commodore's offering, right up until we made the move to PC. Sean, crazy weirdo that he was, even had a soft spot for the Archimedes..." So, chalk up Bullfrog as yet another developer who had the dev.kits, but seemingly never used them as they knew Jaguar was commerically far too risky to invest in. Sorry it's not better news.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) So, chalk up Bullfrog as yet another developer who had the dev.kits, but seemingly never used them as they knew Jaguar was commerically far too risky to invest in. weren't theme park & syndicate programmed by bullfrog? Still that's too bad about Magic Carpet. Jaguar needed some good looking games like that one. I imagine by their comment their other games didn't exactly fly off the shelf so it wasn't really worth investing any more into the Jaguar. Edited April 29, 2015 by Willard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Sorry, should of worded that better last night :-(.Whilst i'm not sure who coded Jag Theme Park Or Syndicate off top of my head, what i was thinking was there was no way they'd invest time/money in Jag CD Projects, when, as Alex has said, existing Jaguar user base was so small and it was clear Jag CD was'nt going to turn that situation around. I've had further updates from Alex, regarding the claimed A1200, CD32 and 3DO versions of Magic Carpet etc which might make more sense regarding point i was getting at :-): 'We had a dedicated Conversions department where many of the new guys started out before picking up main projects of their own......' 'By the time of 3DO and A1200, we'd moved to PC almost entirely, so they never really got the time of day. I remember seeing an early 3DO dev kit in the office and wondering what the point was. But I think we still squeezed out a copy of Theme Park on it. I know Disky put Syndicate on an A1200, but after that he was put on the PC version of Syndicate Wars.' Edited April 29, 2015 by Lost Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) So, to sum up... This latest 'find' is just another piece of the bigger picture of the industry at that time, with hardware like the CD32, A1200, 3DO and Jaguar never really standing any real chance of any serious investment by the major players at the time. User Bases were far too small to justify the resources, The PC CD market was rapidly expanding, likes of Saturn and Playstation were the ones to back in the console market.Sure a conversion here or there, maybe in-house (but given to the 'new guys' your core teams busy on the key projects....or farmed out, but you were'nt looking long term at any of these platforms it seems. Sad as i'd of liked to have seen the CD32, A1200, Jaguar and 3DO really pushed by UK software houses alone, but it was never going to happen. Edited April 29, 2015 by Lost Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Can someone post a screenshot of Magic Carpet just so I have a reference as to what this game is? thnx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DZCMzMIPpkSM&sa=U&ei=JNxAVenuNs3raNuvgMAL&ved=0CBkQtwIwAQ&usg=AFQjCNHLfKCkBRbDYzCEwVdgeKHq0leDLA Here's the orig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Nice. Looks well suited to the Jaguar CD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Magic Carpet was an awesome game when it came out - still is fun to play as last year I decided to blast through the whole game - tough as nails but checked it off my bucket list This would be a fun game to play on the Jag but alas no ST version to 'convert' Just a warning - stay away from Magic Carpet 2 - utter crap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 I had it on PS1, really enjoyed it.Saturn version, which they originally tried to port PC code to, before a drastic re-think (frame rate was awful) lead to it being coded for the Saturn Hardware, was said to be just as good, few cosmetic differences in terms of shadows, sky etc. It'd be great to see Jaguar CD and 3DO versions, but both would of needed to sell a lot more units to be in with a chance. 3DO stood a better chance as that at least was a core system, with Jaguar CD you were developing for the tricky add-on user base and again, there'd of had to of been big numbers before developers took the plunge, but without the software to showcase/sell the add-on, where would the incentive be to buy it?. Age old scenario.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Press talked up 3DO version would of supported the planned 3D Glasses for the 3DO, so i asked Alex about how that might of worked: ' As for 3D - Glenn got into it in a big way. Magic Carpet had support for just about every type of 3D there was. We had two VR rigs - the Virtual IO and the one that looked like a rebel pilot's helmet whose name eludes me. The biggest problem with those devices was that you could easily strangle yourself with the cord by continually turning in one direction as you strafed around your opponent. Then there were the LCD shutter glasses from Phillips, I believe. It also supported anaglyph (the red / green) glasses. He even put in a 'magic eye' mode which, to everyone other than him, looked like just a mess of random pixels. ' Potential Jag VR Game there then, had things turned out very, very different.Shame, whilst it's nice to hear what could of been, realising just how little chance it ever had of happening, sometimes makes it harder to swallow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Can someone post a screenshot of Magic Carpet just so I have a reference as to what this game is? thnx Nice, remember this game now. Sweet, would have blended well into the Jag collection of 3d roam-around-not-exactly-knowing-what-to-do-next kind of games 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Alex, like so many of the industry guys i've chatted to (and a few girls yet 1 pulled out of the interview due to ill health, other still has questions with), has vey kindly offered to put 'the feelers out' with his ex-work mates to try and see if there were any other Atari-related Lost Projects to comment on. I did ask about The Lynx, as Peter M, was quoted as being impressed by the hardware: "We never did any handheld stuff in house. There *was* a version of Populous running on the original Gameboy, but I don't think it got very far. Again, it didn't stop Glenn tinkering with plenty of different layouts for it.". The Phrase 'tinkering often crops up when i ask about Lost Games, across all formats, but key is not to confuse 'Tinkering' with cat in hells chance game got far enough for anything to be salvaged, if code still exists..... :-) The searches continue. Edited April 29, 2015 by Lost Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender3455 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Nice, remember this game now. Sweet, would have blended well into the Jag collection of 3d roam-around-not-exactly-knowing-what-to-do-next kind of games Hahahahaha, I've thought that about several of the Jag games! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Alex very kindly updated the status of Jaguar Magic Carpet (he did say he'd put feelers out) and i promised i'd share the info, as/when i got it on this game: 'Jaguar stuff was done by Mike Diskett (Syndicate - now working on Satellite Reign for Five Lives) and Alan Wright (Theme Park - no idea where he ended up). It turns out that Atari were trying to port Magic Carpet but they couldn't get it to work.' So it now seems there was a genuine attempt to bring Magic Carpet to the Jag CD, but hardware issues maybe? meant it was'nt possible. So Magic Carpet is now a 'proper' Lost Jaguar Game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I doubt MC would run on the Jag's hardware. I dont think the engine was that optimized as it really taxed PC's of the day with some major slowdown in later levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 It turns out that Atari were trying to port Magic Carpet but they couldn't get it to work.' This could be anything from not being able to build the source code or knowing how to make the assembly language optimisations in the "C" code or that it ran at 1 frame per minute. The original specification for the game was 486DX at 100MHz and that kicks the jag in the nuts big time. So it now seems there was a genuine attempt to bring Magic Carpet to the Jag CD, but hardware issues maybe? meant it was'nt possible. So Magic Carpet is now a 'proper' Lost Jaguar Game. Nope! Pure speculation on your part that Atari did anything useful with the code at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 that's interesting Atari wanted to do it themselves, they weren't really known for internal development on the Jaguar (Spacewar 2000, Hoverstrike). just as likely they tried to outsource it to imagitec or something. Bullfrog being an established developer at the time, and magic carpet being an ambitious game for the system, it makes sense Atari didn't want to contract them (would've actually cost some money). Doesn't surprise me that Atari couldn't get a game like that to work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) well i still class it as a 'proper' lost game as it's similar to what Darryl Still told me months ago about Atari wanting Creature Shock on Jag CD, there was at the very least the 'demmand' within Atari to get it on the Jag, if possible, rather than so many of these press listings of 'annouced' games.It's not speculation either, it's come direct from Alex Trowers himself who asked his Ex-Bullfrog coders what the situation was. The speculation that existed before hand was that it was planned for Jaguar CD and there was no 'proof' either way, at least now we know there were 'attempts' to make it happen. Magic Carpet does'nt fall into the usual cat.- magazine advert with coming soon on Atari....printed somewhere (A8 jackal, Lynx Hellraiser etc, mocked up screenshot trotted out as proof...) Alex has passed my details onto Mike, so fingers crossed there'll be more info to come, but he is very busy with Satellite Reign ATM. Edited May 1, 2015 by Lost Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 well i still class it as a 'proper' lost game Really? Having a bunch of source code files that may or may not build does not constitute a lost game. If the code doesn't even put up a frame buffer on the target hardware its not a game by any definition. Its the equivalent of saying that because you have the source code to Quake then its a lost jag game too. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Alex very kindly updated the status of Jaguar Magic Carpet (he did say he'd put feelers out) and i promised i'd share the info, as/when i got it on this game: 'Jaguar stuff was done by Mike Diskett (Syndicate - now working on Satellite Reign for Five Lives) and Alan Wright (Theme Park - no idea where he ended up). It turns out that Atari were trying to port Magic Carpet but they couldn't get it to work.' So it now seems there was a genuine attempt to bring Magic Carpet to the Jag CD, but hardware issues maybe? meant it was'nt possible. So Magic Carpet is now a 'proper' Lost Jaguar Game. If Atari was trying to port it then someone from Atari must know something. Mike Fulton or perhaps BJ West? Someone should ask up on the FB Jaguar page see if it gets any hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) If Atari was trying to port it then someone from Atari must know something. Someone was trying to port Gyrus.. and Hero... and Klax.. and a basic... knowledge isn't required for abject failure Would you consider those 'lost' games ? Edited May 2, 2015 by CyranoJ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Someone was trying to port Gyrus.. and Hero... and Klax.. and a basic... knowledge isn't required for abject failure Would you consider those 'lost' games ? Not really mister Cynical Jones. But was just curious as to how accurate and how far this may have been taken. I have never heard of a Magic Carpet version even thought of for the Jaguar before. This is news to me and am curious about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 Good news, i might have a lead, more info to follow. Bad news, BT just messaged me warning me i used close to my allowance on Broadband last month so they'll charge me if i start going over, so will be stepping back from the research for Unseen64/GTW/ST gamer etc, plus not taking advantage of Games On Gold (Freebies with XBL Gold). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) Not really mister Cynical Jones cynical? you mean there actually are these games? Ooh, ooh, do show! Edited May 2, 2015 by CyranoJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 Right, i'm in 2 minds wether to share the info Mike D.has just very kindly emailed over to me regarding not only Jaguar Magic Carpet, but Bullfrog and how they viewed the Jaguar, as i fear it'll just be another excuse for the nonsense to continue.I'm getting sick of all of this to be honest. It's my time, my broadband usage etc etc that's being used up here and people are being kind enough to get back to me with information that had'nt come to light before, be it regarding Magic Carpet, Tomb Raider, Creature shock, Conan or what ever. There's no need for every knew bit of info to be used as a platform for the usual fodder on here. So, i'm splitting it right down the middle here.I'll post 50% of Mikes email here as i feel the greater community deserves to have it and if people want the full email? PM me and i'll forward it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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