Heaven/TQA Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) I have just released a new intro just for fun. http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=65687 It is for PAL Atari 800 XL. Story behind: I wanted to do something 80s style after Arsantica, Arsantica 2 and Arsantica 3 intro. and on my to do in lifetime list was doing a production in using digi channel with POKEY chip tune... unfortunatly there are only native trackers who support this and nowadays everybody uses RMT which is good but I was playing around with Black Magic Composer by Gnome Design but none of my musicans wants to use it so luckily I could convince Miker to compose a brand new track in few hours. the music is done in Music Pro Tracker 2.4 and Miker and Mono helped me a lot with fighting polish QA source codes like music replay routine in combination with polish documentations... but now I got a MADS friensdly player and know how to use MPT again. so enjoy... dsr_nordlicht_greetro.zip Edited May 31, 2015 by Heaven/TQA 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Your youtube link is repeated twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I fixed the youtube link and embedded it properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The music in this intro is gorgeous!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Thousand thumbs up for using BMC and for the resulting good tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 To be honest: Music is made with Music Protracker with samples from BMC, and my custom freq-table. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 To be honest: Music is made with Music Protracker with samples from BMC, and my custom freq-table. Ofcourse I was just thinking of RMT excluding all this good stuff for finalizing POKEY music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) my fault... I edited my text to make it clear that it's MPT... unfortunalty modern musicians want to have a Windows based composing tool and not "weird" native trackers like MPT or BMC... sad that BMC was not used but Miker was quicker with MPT than BMC... BMC btw would be possible to play 2 samples at once instead of 1 sample additionaly to 4 POKEY channels... but as I said... none wants to use it anymore and I thought it is kind of homage of "native" composing and using software which was made prior RMT... Edited May 31, 2015 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Next step may be to deal with MPT 9.9 player, which allows to use volume commands on all samples and second 16-bit bass ($28) as well. But in a "few" moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Miker... Who made the player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Jaskier. And it's on his site. But it also has to be dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) ah.... you mean the last one PLA99.ASM.... well... did not looked into it... do you know why Jaskier never applied samples to TMC 2.0? Edited May 31, 2015 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 BMC btw would be possible to play 2 samples at once instead of 1 sample additionaly to 4 POKEY channels... but as I said... none wants to use it anymore I am also a person that doesn't want to use native tools anymore. As much as I love the Atari, productivity increases exponentially when using PC tools. Anyway, does anyone know the file format for BMC? I've always thought that a tracker could be prototyped with carefully built spreadsheets. Then using scripts, the tracker could produce output files. Then in time someone could create a PC based version. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I am also a person that doesn't want to use native tools anymore. As much as I love the Atari, productivity increases exponentially when using PC tools. Anyway, does anyone know the file format for BMC? I've always thought that a tracker could be prototyped with carefully built spreadsheets. Then using scripts, the tracker could produce output files. Then in time someone could create a PC based version. I completely understand this point of view, but I do not share this opinion entirely. For me is the atari-fun spending time with this fabulous atari 8bit machine. It's not the system itself (which can be emulated) that thrills me, but the complete package -> vintage hardware, the limitations and the possibilities. I agree that modern solutions like crossassemblers and emulators made development life much easier, and that is cool. Especially when you create stuff for other people. I can imagine that a (big) game is better be coded on a different, more powerfull platform. And when you want to write a fabulous demo, of course... I see the benefits here too. I also feel the discussion point here... as a diehard atari fan, I absolutely love all those brilliant demo's, and games that are created the last 20 years or so. And I also understand that this would probably not be possible without all this powerful tools. So for the end user (like me) it's great that all these tools do exist. But when I create something myself on my a8, for me the fun is the creation process and not the end-product itself. I love composing a song on my real atari. I love coding some neat 6502 code, on the atari itself in Mac/65 or Synassembler (or even Turbo Basic). I love to debug my stuff using my TurboFreezer, or Blackbox. And again: I understand that the TurboFreezer 2011 probably did not happen without the help of powerful pc tools. So I'm not against those tools, definitely not. But I want to advertise the fun of coding on the real thing, which can still lead to amazing stuff. (Listen to that amazing mpt song Miker created as an example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Anyway, does anyone know the file format for BMC? I've always thought that a tracker could be prototyped with carefully built spreadsheets. Then using scripts, the tracker could produce output files. Then in time someone could create a PC based version. Or perhaps use something like Mod Plug Tracker and then build a script/converter that yanks the actual note data out and shovels it into the correct format - that's something i've had on my "to do" list for ages since i have a driver for a couple of other 8-bits that uses a compression scheme which is A) more efficient than the regular 'Tracker format and B) subsequently a complete and utter pig to enter data into! =-) S'worth noting that some 8-bit systems only got the option of a cross dev Tracker recently and others don't even have decent native tools for music... plus [ahem] a certain other 8-bit has some musicians still working direct into the assembler so it's still an option. (i know from personal experience because the music i've received for a couple of projects has turned up as source code, with lots of constants defined for the notes so it's human readable.) But when I create something myself on my a8, for me the fun is the creation process and not the end-product itself. I love composing a song on my real atari. I love coding some neat 6502 code, on the atari itself in Mac/65 or Synassembler (or even Turbo Basic). I love to debug my stuff using my TurboFreezer, or Blackbox. You get that with the cross development tools as well though, i've got bucketloads of unreleased prototype demo and indeed game routines sitting around for a range of systems which do ridiculous things that would've taken me hours or sometimes days to build on a native assembler but only needed minutes of typing and seconds to build. i'm not saying that you or anyone else shouldn't use native development tools of course because that's absolutely down to the individual and what works for each coder is cool, but doing so does place some fairly hefty restrictions on what can actually be achieved and makes more involved projects significantly harder - at least some of the coders "back in the day" brewed their own cross assembly solutions for these reasons. But I want to advertise the fun of coding on the real thing, which can still lead to amazing stuff. (Listen to that amazing mpt song Miker created as an example). Hmm... that wasn't really down to developing native over cross dev though, it was just that the tools don't currently exist to do the same job. =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 @TMR I can summarize my post with this; that is what I meant, and was probably not clear: using crossdevelopment tools means less time behind the atari, and more time (again) behind pc or mac; and my atari hobby is spending time behind the atari, not behind the pc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Or perhaps use something like Mod Plug Tracker and then build a script/converter that yanks the actual note data out and shovels it into the correct format - that's something i've had on my "to do" list for ages since i have a driver for a couple of other 8-bits that uses a compression scheme which is A) more efficient than the regular 'Tracker format and B) subsequently a complete and utter pig to enter data into! =-) Ooh you blighter, you always have such knowledge on everything. I'd not heard of Mod Plug Tracker but after Googling it, I think I can see where you're coming from. Do you essentially want something which creates music and then you write scripts to downsample the samples or alter the instruments while retaining the song? I think that would be good for productivity, but without actually testing it, could it or would it perhaps make some songs or sounds not sound good? i.e. Would they be better being converted by hand? It's a very valid idea though, I'd love to see the output from something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 For me is the atari-fun spending time with this fabulous atari 8bit machine. It's not the system itself (which can be emulated) that thrills me, but the complete package -> vintage hardware, the limitations and the possibilities. ... which is a very valid point of view. It depends on what you liked about the Atari back in the day. Personally I found development somewhat of a pain just due to the restrictions. I played around a little with the Assembler Editor and used Quick a bit more. I also used Turbo Basic. But saving everything out to disk (or cassette prior to that) and then compiling could be a right pain with a longer turn around time than nowadays. My love back in the day was the games and so this is what I personally like for getting the "feel" of the Atari. However, I love the way that the Atari is actually a puzzle to program for as it isn't straight-forward. I like that challenge (though I am not the finest programmer out there) and enjoy it a lot. Programming for a PC is so much easier and you don't need to think about restrictions, it's somewhat bland in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Ooh you blighter, you always have such knowledge on everything. I'd not heard of Mod Plug Tracker but after Googling it, I think I can see where you're coming from. It's a very flexible tool, you can basically write out (or read data from) modules for things like Protracker, Scream or Impulse Tracker as well as go bonkers with the thing in it's own formats. Do you essentially want something which creates music and then you write scripts to downsample the samples or alter the instruments while retaining the song? i was planning to pass MPT to someone who can actually write music (because i really can't =-), get them to work with some generic samples and skip over the features my driver doesn't support. Then i'd rip just the song data and assign/tweak the sounds at a source code level in the driver. The A8 isn't a target for me because RMT already does the job more easily and probably better than i could manage, i'm aiming at things like the VIC-20 or perhaps the BBC Micro where there's no decent cross or even native music editors. (And part of me alo wants to find the time for shifting the Arkos Tracker driver to run on the Apple II because my current driver uses RLE compressed YM files and eats all the RAM! =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Jason http://www.kahlin.net/daniel/victracker/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Jason http://www.kahlin.net/daniel/victracker/ Ooh, you learn something new every day... =-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 now something technical... 7,7 KhZ samples can be played back by playing samples every 2nd scanline by WSYNC or VSCROL or POKEY timer... now what I don't get is... using one of the first 2 methods... work when the beam is running down the screen... but... what happens in the VBLANK time? I mean there is a certain amount of time where WSYNC, VSCROL do not work? should this not screw up the "7,7 KhZ" timing??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 now something technical... 7,7 KhZ samples can be played back by playing samples every 2nd scanline by WSYNC or VSCROL ... Sure VSCROL, not VCOUNT ? The value update fills up to 310(155) scanlines. 240 scanlines were visible. What could that mean ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 Of course vcount but still don't get it 109% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Virtually , the counter ends at a full VB. It counts 50 times to 155 (7750)in PAL , and 60 times to 130 in NTSC (7800) ... this means, it also counts in the VBI, similar to every 2nd scanline. No miracle there ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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