TPR Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 As someone who is fairly new to all of this, I'm curious to know what everyone's expectations are for a "homebrew" title, and whether or not my expectations are accurate or maybe need to be changed. Up until the Colecovision Flashback came out, I had no idea there even was a homebrew community making new games I could download and play, much less legit-looking boxed carts still being produced for the system. I have been a huge fan of the system since i was 12 years old when it originally was released to market, and from 1982 - 2000 I pretty much collected and had everything that was "released" at that time. All the Colecovision produced and 3rd party games, modules, controllers, ADAM computer, Dina system, etc... But it wasn't until January of this year that I was even aware that NEW games were currently being produced. So what do you expect from a "Homebrew?" The internet tells us that homebrew means "A beer or other alcoholic drink brewed at home rather than commercially" but what does that mean when talking about games? I have broken it down into four different categories: Free Roms, Console Ports, Arcade Conversions, Homebrew Originals. Feel free to break it down further and please comment your thoughts. I'd love to really get a sense of what the community thinks and expects... Free Roms (Not ROM dumps of homebrews sold on carts) Not a "full" game A programmer mostly tinkering around with something for fun. Demos, maybe a level or two. Very basic and rudimentary games. Maybe on par with something typed in from an old "Compute! Magazine." Fun to check out and play with for an hour or two. Might see something really good and possibly worthy of a cart release every once in a while. Excited to see people actually programing *something* for the system purely out of passion and interest. Console Ports (MSX, SG-1000, etc) Quality game ported from a real publisher (Konami, Sega, Activision, etc) A game that *feels* like it could have been an original system release. Polished game with very few bugs since it has already been properly released on another system by a commercial publisher. A title that, even though it exists in a very similar if not exact format on the platform it's being ported from that I could probably get the rom for free, I'm happy to have in my Colecovision library regardless. High quality box, manual, and cartridge that is worthy of me placing it inside of a protective plastic casing and proudly adding it to the collection. Examples: Circus Charlie, The Goonies, Girl's Garden, Elevator Action, Magical Tree Price point of $35 - $50 Arcade Conversions (Either programmed from the ground up, or using existing arcade game code as a base) A solid, fun, very playable conversion that feels like it could have been a conversion done in the 80s. Not all features including artwork, sound FX, or levels may included in the conversion based on some development restrictions. Lower budget because this title was essentially "brewed at home instead of commercially" which means the resources including time and money are not always equal to that of a commercial game considering the team is mostly working for free out of passion for the system. Some bugs based on the nature of it being a "homebrew" game, but polished as much as possible. High quality box, manual, and cartridge that is worthy of me placing it inside of a protective plastic casing and proudly adding it to the collection. Examples: Buster Bros, Pac-Man Collection, Side Trak, Mario Bros. Price point of $35 - $50 Homebrew Originals Sold on Carts Solid fun game to play, but maybe not perfect since it's assumed many titles are not created by "professional" game designers/programmers nor are being paid as such. Games that are a lot of fun, and worthy of a cart release, but maybe not quite as good as some of the above console ports or arcade conversions. That being said, some amazing surprises that feel like they could easily be an original game released in the 80s. Lower budget because this title was essentially "brewed at home instead of commercially" which means the resources including time and money are not always equal to that of a commercial game considering the team is mostly working for free out of passion for the system. Polished as much as possible, but may still have a few bugs based on the nature of it being a homebrew. High quality box, manual, and cartridge that is worthy of me placing it inside of a protective plastic casing and proudly adding it to the collection. Examples: Battle of Hoth, Quest for the Golden Chalice, Mecha-8, Zombie Near, Flora & The Ghost Mirror, Spunky's Super Car (Some of my personal favorites) Price point of $35 - $50 Those are pretty much my expectations. While I don't feel that every homebrew title should automatically be praised "just because it exists" I do have to give a ton of credit to anyone who is still making games for a system that is essentially dead for a community that is fairly small. At this point I have played almost every homebrew game that been released, and I have to say there is a LOT of insanely good, high quality games out there. I am super impressed! This community has basically DOUBLED the amount of games out there for the system. I know at this point there are more homebrew titles than there are original releases, but I think the more important factoid is that there might be more QUALITY homebrew releases than there are quality original releases! Would love to get everyone's thoughts if even for my own personal curiosity. Some of you have been in this much, MUCH longer than I have and have seen lots of homebrew developments come and go over the years. What are your current expectations given your experience in the community? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoDan Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Not sure how many homebrew games you have been able to get and play since you are new. If you have the whole catalog of games like some of us who have been here a long time then I think you would see we have been pretty spoiled. I am talking high quality fun games with very few to no bugs. Many of us have said time and again that the games are even better than the work of many of the originally released games. Now of course that is not necessarily fair to the original game producers who had unrealistic deadlines, memory constraints, and moron bosses forcing them to do something stupid. I think the key is that yes it would be normal to expect bugs and problems from a program built from fun and joy and not from a commercial entity with a fleet of testers and coders. The problem is that we have received such high quality productions that now we expect everything to always be perfect or why wasn't it fixed before release. Now we all know and love some of the hugest companies out there like Microsoft, Oracle, and Apple who have bugs galore in their releases. The problem is unfortunately we have come to expect that from those companies where as all our past results of homebrew games has caused a sense of astonishment when we see a bug in a game because that usually doesn't happen. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomaios Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Honestly, I just want games that I can't get better elsewhere, or where elsewhere is cost prohibitive. So keep bringing MSX and SG-1000 games to the ColecoVision; keep making the definitive versions of arcade games on the 7800; for the 2600, though, I prefer originality, and there is no dearth of those in the AtariAge store either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Personally i just want the game to give me some fun! and one particular point, for "Arcade Conversion" , what i expect is that the game be different than the Arcade original!. Yes, i say "Different". Game like Pacman collection are "so perfect" that i finally don't have the feeling to play on coleco. It is like i play it on Mame or my with my original PCB. It is not what i expect of a coleco. Same feeling i have for MSX / SG1000 port. Despite all grief i have against portage that everybody knows , I think a ported game on colecovision is not a coleco game. Like if the game has lost his "coleco" soul... hard to explain for me in english. That feeling is true also for commercial game back in time. For instance, For me Artic Adventure don't feel "coleco". Despite it is a very good game , that i love on MSX. As opposite , take a game like Zaxxon, that exists on SG1000 , Coleco and MSX. The Coleco version feel "coleco". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamshaft Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Coming from the same department as TPR, being relatively new to the scene. Plus, not having purchased any homebrew titles so far, for life reasons. This is not a monetary perspective. But, if we are talking strictly homebrew games at their core. I would expect the following.... The the price point reflects the quality of the game. I've seen $50 door stops that friends purchased. Not cool. Creativity. With MAME out there, and so easy to setup these days. I don't really like the idea of paying for an arcade title watered down this day in age. The "this is cool" factor dies pretty fast with me. On the other hand, if you turn back the clock to 1983, and getting "Bagman" then would have been cool. Where's Doc Brown when you need him?!?! Support. I'm not a fan of abandonware. Meaning if it has bugs fix it. It's completely possible these days. The truth is this homebrew stuff is like the wild west a bit. Edited June 3, 2015 by Kamshaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Coming from the same department as TPR, being relatively new to the scene. Plus, not having purchased any homebrew titles so far, for life reasons. This is not a monetary perspective. But, if we are talking strictly homebrew games at their core. I would expect the following.... The the price point reflects the quality of the game. I've seen $50 door stops that friends purchased. Not cool. Creativity. With MAME out there, and so easy to setup these days. I don't really like the idea of paying for an arcade title watered down this day in age. The "this is cool" factor dies pretty fast with me. On the other hand, if you turn back the clock to 1983, and getting "Bagman" then would have been cool. Where's Doc Brown when you need him?!?! Support. I'm not a fan of abandonware. Meaning if it has bugs fix it. It's completely possible these days. The truth is this homebrew stuff is like the wild west a bit. Dude, you really are new around these parts to say something like that! You should have seen the CV homebrew scene back between 1996 and 2009. Now THAT was the far west! It was a time of mostly cartridge-only releases, and those that did come in a box used recycled VHS tape boxes or something similar! It was a time of doubledown fixing and modding consoles before Yurkie came along, Opcode pioneered the age of commercial-grade boxes and manuals (and let's not forget the MegaCart!) while CollectorVision was basically a one-guy operation (Toby came onboard much later) with retroillucid learning the ropes (most of the time the hard way). By comparison, today's CV homebrew scene has reached a high level of maturity, IHMO. If your friends are using homebrews as door stops, that's a shame. And if you think it's "completely possible" to fix bugs in a game released on cartridge, try publishing your own CV games. Once you realize how much of a hassle it is to do a general recall to fix a bug in a cartridge game, you may end up singing a different tune. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamshaft Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Dude, you really are new around these parts to say something like that! You should have seen the CV homebrew scene back between 1996 and 2009. Now THAT was the far west! It was a time of mostly cartridge-only releases, and those that did come in a box used recycled VHS tape boxes or something similar! It was a time of doubledown fixing and modding consoles before Yurkie came along, Opcode pioneered the age of commercial-grade boxes and manuals (and let's not forget the MegaCart!) while CollectorVision was basically a one-guy operation (Toby came onboard much later) with retroillucid learning the ropes (most of the time the hard way). By comparison, today's CV homebrew scene has reached a high level of maturity, IHMO. If your friends are using homebrews as door stops, that's a shame. And if you think it's "completely possible" to fix bugs in a game released on cartridge, try publishing your own CV games. Once you realize how much of a hassle it is to do a general recall to fix a bug in a cartridge game, you may end up singing a different tune. I sadly haven't been around that long. I bet recalling 100 carts, has to be a crappy thing. And I'm never going to get into publishing on a 30 year console! I have too many grey hairs as is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Dude, you really are new around these parts to say something like that! You should have seen the CV homebrew scene back between 1996 and 2009. Now THAT was the far west! It was a time of mostly cartridge-only releases, and those that did come in a box used recycled VHS tape boxes or something similar! It was a time of doubledown fixing and modding consoles before Yurkie came along, Opcode pioneered the age of commercial-grade boxes and manuals (and let's not forget the MegaCart!) while CollectorVision was basically a one-guy operation (Toby came onboard much later) with retroillucid learning the ropes (most of the time the hard way). By comparison, today's CV homebrew scene has reached a high level of maturity, IHMO.If your friends are using homebrews as door stops, that's a shame. And if you think it's "completely possible" to fix bugs in a game released on cartridge, try publishing your own CV games. Once you realize how much of a hassle it is to do a general recall to fix a bug in a cartridge game, you may end up singing a different tune. Wish I was as good as you in English! Would be so much easier to express myself properly What you said ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 ^ Your English is waaaay better than my French! (and I studied it for four years!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I sadly haven't been around that long. I bet recalling 100 carts, has to be a crappy thing. And I'm never going to get into publishing on a 30 year console! I have too many grey hairs as is! It happened to Opcode! There was a major flaw with Magical Tree, and he had to contact all buyers and offer to exchange the defective cart with a fixed one. Poor Eduardo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroillucid Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I would also add.... The ColecoVision scene is probably the biggest homebrew community Just compare how many games get released by year compared to any other homebrew scene That's also why I love being part of the CV Community, there's a wide variety of publishers / programmers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcks73 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Je n'ai jamais assez de Sugar Crisps...!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I would also add.... The ColecoVision scene is probably the biggest homebrew community Just compare how many games get released by year compared to any other homebrew scene That's also why I love being part of the CV Community, there's a wide variety of publishers / programmers I won't say the Colecovision scene is the piggest homebrew community , if you look at other scene like the C64, Amstrad CPC , Zx spectrum , MSX they are fare more productive in term homebrews. So may be if you are considering "console" only. but even here , i think there is more homebrew produced NES, Vectrex and Megadrive, or even Atari 2600 for instance. where i would agree, Is that the CV scene is the one where the quality of published Homebrew (in term of packaging) is the more "professionnal". On other scene there are tons of homebrew but most of them are not "published". Just give to people for free in a Rom format. That's the major difference. It is not the volume of the scene but the nature of the scene that make the CV scene so "special". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamshaft Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Don't get me wrong.... I really adore this community, and the awesome people within it. Otherwise I wouldn't of created my site. My dream (if I may) is to see more creative and original titles come to the Colecovision by means of homebrew. Whether it comes from Collectorvision, Team Pixelboy or Opcode games, or anyone else for that matter. I think a lot of people would be on board with that. Again, just my thoughts. Kam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 i think there is more homebrew produced NES, Vectrex and Megadrive, or even Atari 2600 for instance. where i would agree, Is that the CV scene is the one where the quality of published Homebrew (in term of packaging) is the more "professionnal". On other scene there are tons of homebrew but most of them are not "published". Just give to people for free in a Rom format. I'm assuming that retroillucid meant "packaged" homebrews? (at least that's how I took it.) I have not really looked that much into other systems homebrew (although there seem to be quite a lot of 2600 games and more INTV & Odyssey games than I would expect, which is a good thing), but I'm blown away by the number of "packaged" homebrew games that have been released for the Colecovision. Personally, I think I prefer the packaged product to a free ROM release because I feel that a free ROM release doesn't come with any guarantee of quality. Like I said above in my expectations list, to me, a free ROM release is more just someone playing around with the system and testing things out. Probably not a full-fledged game release. While still not what I would consider to be a "commercial" release, the homebrew publishers, namely Pixelboy, Collectorvision, and Opcode do seem to make sure that whatever they put in the box will be of very high quality. I have a huge list of "free rom" games in my directory, and honesty, I don't really play any of them, but I play the roms from the packaged games all the time. I know that if it's an original title in a box, it's going to be fun to play, if it's an MSX/SG-1000 port, I know it will be polished and probably a game I wished I would have had 30 years ago, and if it's an arcade conversion, it will be as close as it can by based on resources. In short, I'd be more wary of free ROM releases than I would be buying a packaged product from one of the homebrew publishers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Whether it comes from Collectorvision, Team Pixelboy or Opcode games, or anyone else for that matter. Actually, is there anyone making a homebrew title currently that isn't going through one of those three? I looked at the homebrew project tracker and I think all the current games, while being developed by lots of different people, are all being released by those three. Not that I mind, I was just more curious. EDIT: I see that Shifted is one that is being released by another party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Actually, is there anyone making a homebrew title currently that isn't going through one of those three? I looked at the homebrew project tracker and I think all the current games, while being developed by lots of different people, are all being released by those three. Not that I mind, I was just more curious. EDIT: I see that Shifted is one that is being released by another party. Isn't Archon a private publishing project of AtariBuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 ^ I guess so if no one else is claiming it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Knight'n More , will be also published by someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PkK Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Don't get me wrong.... I really adore this community, and the awesome people within it. Otherwise I wouldn't of created my site. My dream (if I may) is to see more creative and original titles come to the Colecovision by means of homebrew. Whether it comes from Collectorvision, Team Pixelboy or Opcode games, or anyone else for that matter. I think a lot of people would be on board with that. Again, just my thoughts. Kam What would you consider to be a "creative" or "original" title? Which of my games (http://colecovision.eu/ColecoVision/games/) would you consider to fall into these categories and why or why not? Philipp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamshaft Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What would you consider to be a "creative" or "original" title? Which of my games (http://colecovision.eu/ColecoVision/games/) would you consider to fall into these categories and why or why not? Philipp Creative and original, I think the words are self-explanatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PkK Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Creative and original, I think the words are self-explanatory. No. They could mean something like "not a modification of an existing game" or "not a port of a game to the ColecoVision (arcade or other system)". They could also mean "gameplay and story never seen before in any video game", etc. Philipp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamshaft Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 No. They could mean something like "not a modification of an existing game" or "not a port of a game to the ColecoVision (arcade or other system)". They could also mean "gameplay and story never seen before in any video game", etc. Philipp That's what it means. Original, never seen before. Totally new. Original, one of a kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 What would you consider to be a "creative" or "original" title? Which of my games (http://colecovision.eu/ColecoVision/games/) would you consider to fall into these categories and why or why not? Philipp I would consider all of your titles creative or original to varying degrees. While some of your titles borrow upon legacy games like Qix or Snake, there is an original spin put on all of them. And I appreciate that the other games all feel someone different and unique from each other, especially the crown jewel games. I have purchased every one of them and felt they were worthy additions to the homebrew collection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Here's a couple other questions I was thinking about recently. I saw someone in another thread mention that they though there were "too many homebrew games" being worked on at the moment. (You can see the current full list in the Homebrew Project Tracker Thread) My thought on this matter is "can you really have too much of a good thing?" But what do other people think? Is there really a downside to having too many games in development? I hear some people complain about the cost associated with so many games coming out, but If the bigger distributors like Pixelboy & Collectorvision are willing to produce carts assuming their stock may sell over time versus immediately, is it really a big deal? And maybe they are getting enough pre-orders to make that a moot point, anyway? Does having a lot of games in development discourage independent people from making more games for the system? It seems like if anything, there are more people willing to jump in the CV development camp now, but if people feel like it's a crowded market to get their game some attention, is this hurting things or helping? When i got out of collecting retro games ten years ago, almost none of this existed. What you were able to collect then was a finite number of items based on what was primarily released during the systems initial run. And now there is all kinds of fan-generated content from new games, boxes, controllers, etc that I would hate to see any of that stop because the fan community thinks it's a bad thing. Just curious on other people's thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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