freewheel Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I'll clarify what I mean by those 4 points and leave it at that. *snip* I think you mean "revbrew". Because plenty of homebrew games come out that do not meet most or all of those points. And yes, when you're paying someone bare bones wages to develop a game in his spare time for cartridges that run on a system that hasn't been produced in decades - that is the *textbook* definition of "homebrew". What distinguishes homebrew from "real games" is basically that - whether or not someone does this as an actual job, and whether or not it's being produced for something extant. And even that last one is fuzzy, as people were producing homebrew for the Dreamcast during its lifespan (incredibly). Homebrew originally meant software produced for systems that are not end-user programmable, but that line is very fuzzy these days. What ISN'T end-user programmable And, to your last point.....Intellivision through the flashback IS 'commercially available'.....and if there is a flasback 2, don't be surprised if you see Boulder Dash® on it. And, it won't be my doing. It will be First Star's. By that definition, homebrew doesn't exist. Nearly every retro platform is available commercially through emulation. Your BD carts will not play on a Flashback. They're still homebrew. A game doesn't suddenly become "not homebrew" just because someone sells an emulator with the game included. It seems like you may have a problem with the term "homebrew". Which is a bit surprising considering your target market. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheel Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It is simply that not enough people bought the game for me to have confidence that I could break even on the venture. Constant harping on 'DRM' abilities in LTO Flash! to a significant (although not only) customer base, as if the sky is going to fall because of it, is one reason I decided to not go through with it. It is total nonsense, but people are really passionate to say the least about it. Why is that? I dunno. If you honestly don't know why people might have a problem with Digitally Restricted Media, you've missed out on an entire decade of massive commercial failures involving it. And consumers staying away from it in droves. Even trillion-dollar Apple realized the problem with it after just a few years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I wouldn't expect this question to be answered, but I am curious how many CIB games need to be sold to break even vs. ROM sales. Is it possible that adding the ROM sales would hit that break even point sooner than selling the CIB games only? I would guess that many of the people who bought the CIB game would also buy the ROM to play on their flash carts. I wouldn't be surprised if the break even point was hit sooner with ROM sales added as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 All of Elektronite's games are homebrews. They may be commercially sold, and Elektronite may be a real Company, but in the end it is a guy earning some extra cash on the side coding them. 3. Most homebrew is legit? You mean like Rev's stolen games? Or his infringing ones using Intellivison and Activision like boxes? He isn't the only one who is repackaging other people's IP. Most of the 'homebrews' in the Intellivision world can be considered illegal IP wise. Elektronite would do such a Thing. Sure Thing, many homebrews use things they are not allowed to; be it the gaem Content itself being based on others' IP, or the use of logos and Fonts on boxes. But in the homebrew world in general there is lots of stuff that is fully original. And Elektronite cannot claim to be above questionable use of others IP. It may be a thing of the past, but the Releases cannot be undone. Each to his own, and if DRM is really something People think is useful... personally, I think the Inty Scene is so small it is not worth the effort. Who cares enough to Play Inty games will Shell out a few bucks for it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slab0meat Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Sad to see the spiral this thread has taken. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Sad to see the spiral this thread has taken. I agree. Why was 'Rev' mentioned in such a derogatory manor is beyond me. Totally unwarranted. Calling me a theif basically by saying STOLEN. While other people can release games like this and get away with it: D2K Arcade. DK Arcade Space Patrol 4Tris (Donkey Kong, Moon Patrol, Tetris) A little hypocritical if you ask me. Or maybe a lot. So yes Slab0meat, its very sad to see the downward spiral of Elektronite management here. Intellivision deserves better publishers. Not saying its me..... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I'm still a homebrewer and it'd be silly to call me anything but.... You seem to want to put up a barrier between "Elektronite" and "homebrewers"... I'm not entirely sure why, but it's a construct entirely of your own making. "Homebrew" is not just "someone hacked Donkey Kong and changed the Mario graphic". By definition it's very small groups of people writing software for a very small market, for systems that (generally) are not commercially sold anymore. freewheel, First Star Software was around over 30 years ago, started by a programmer who first worked in industry for other companies and then won an international programming contest and started a software company around his IP. I can relate to this because I did the same with Gallery Software/RelationalFramework; wrote games for other companies, won international programming contests and started a software company around my IP. There are some phennomenal programmers like Jentzsch and Davies who wrote fantastic games in the 80's, but they didn't own the software companies and manage all aspects of full life cycle development and would be the first to tell you this. Then there are some great programmers like 108 Stars who didn't write any games bitd much less own their own software lables - these are the definitive "homebrewers" and I agree it would be silly to call them anything but! Within this category there are "homebrewers" who write poor quality games and homebrewers with great programming skills putting out quality work; it's up to you to distinguish yourselves with the quality of your software - comparing yourselves to Activision is not the way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Its also sad to me that Elektronite management treats me this way. I may be their biggest customer. I have 4 copies of every game released. But it really comes as no surprise. Name calling and customer abuse is the norm from team Elektronite. Maybe we all have come to like and enjoy it. Frankly I would be shocked if it was different. Have we ever heard a "Thank You" for purchasing games from Elektronite? I can't recall. But don't worry. Ill buy more future games. Unless I'm banned after my recent comments..which in case Ill just pay eBay prices. Thanks Elektronite! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroAl Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 That too bad. I like this game. It would have looked good on my Mame Cab. RetroAl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) freewheel, First Star Software was around over 30 years ago, started by a programmer who first worked in industry for other companies and then won an international programming contest and started a software company around his IP. I can relate to this because I did the same with Gallery Software/RelationalFramework; wrote games for other companies, won international programming contests and started a software company around my IP. There are some phennomenal programmers like Jentzsch and Davies who wrote fantastic games in the 80's, but they didn't own the software companies and manage all aspects of full life cycle development and would be the first to tell you this. Then there are some great programmers like 108 Stars who didn't write any games bitd much less own their own software lables - these are the definitive "homebrewers" and I agree it would be silly to call them anything but! Within this category there are "homebrewers" who write poor quality games and homebrewers with great programming skills putting out quality work; it's up to you to distinguish yourselves with the quality of your software - comparing yourselves to Activision is not the way. I would add that, notwithstanding their legendary pedigree and talent, if Jentzsch and Davie write games at home, on the side, in their spare time; and the work is not part of their main source of income; then they are as homebrewers as the rest of us unwashed masses -- impressive and masterful homebrewers, but homebrewers nonetheless. I don't mean to denigrate them in any way; in fact, I respect them immensely. I'm just pointing out that words such as "commercial," "professional," and "hombrewer" and even "hobbyist" and "enthusiast," have meaning. Cheers! dZ. Edited July 15, 2015 by DZ-Jay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Is Halo 2600 a homebrew? Wasn't it programmed by Ed Fries the ex VP at microsoft. The Halo box was by Marc O I think. ...a homebrew box supplier. This one is making my head spin! Hahaha 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Then I ask what relevance it has to the price of tea in China? Why bring it up at all, why mention it in the context of not releasing a ROM, and why talk about "backstabbing the Intellivision community"? One shithead sent one stupid email. And? So? It happens literally millions of times each and every single day. Why are we even talking about this as if it has any meaning whatsoever? Because the email was was a much lower act than average trolling and should be called out as such. I mean, if there was some sort of organized AA boycott over Boulder Dash and I didn't get the meeting invite, I apologize. Maybe there's a grand conspiracy to fuck over Elektronite, and the ringleader sent an email to First Star to try to tank the whole project. I never mentioned a boycott nor know of one. There exists at least one douchebag on the planet who a) has Internet access, and b) at one point read the AA forums. And....? Now we're being "backstabbed"? I'm having trouble connecting the dots on this one. Someone tried to hurt the Intellivision community behind our backs. If First Star is anything remotely approaching a legitimate company, and I'm led to believe they are, they would have laughed it off. Game companies get letters like this constantly. There are entire websites dedicated to the practice (hell, there's an entire Top Level Domain dedicated to it). Before my post, I also would have expected First Star to ignore it. William has confirmed this. Their reaction to this act does not diminish that the attempted act was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Because the email was was a much lower act than average trolling and should be called out as such. I never mentioned a boycott nor know of one. Someone tried to hurt the Intellivision community behind our backs. Before my post, I also would have expected First Star to ignore it. William has confirmed this. Their reaction to this act does not diminish that the attempted act was wrong. I think the content of the email is getting blown out of proportion. It sounds like the person was speaking his mind about not wanting to pay for a rom. That's his opinion. is that really terrible? People always want stuff for free. No need to punish the rest of us over a random email. It is laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 P.s. I didn't send the email.....nor is there some underground boycott against Elektronite. Any further accusations against the loyal intv collectors is ludicrous and plain hog wash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yeah, this is getting a little silly man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eebuckeye Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The people complaining about Elektronite releasing games such as DIIK Arcade are ridiculous. No wonder why some home brew people (such as Elektronite) do not want to create more games. It is up to them if they want to release roms, etc.. The complaining is not good for new releases!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Someone popping out of the word work and demanding this specific ROM for this specific game from First Star sounds rather apocryphal... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SoulBuster Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think the content of the email is getting blown out of proportion. It sounds like the person was speaking his mind about not wanting to pay for a rom. That's his opinion. is that really terrible? People always want stuff for free. No need to punish the rest of us over a random email. It is laughable. Rev, do you really think that the ROM not being released is punishment over that email? That IS laughable. William has already stated that the email had nothing to do with the ROM not being released nor did it have any affect on any decisions regarding BD. The simple fact is, we have not sold anywhere near what we needed to warrant the release of the ROM. We still have CIBs we have paid fees for that have yet to be sold. These fees have already been paid to FSS. In order to release the ROM, we would need to pay more fees and William does not want to take the financial risk with sales on the CIBs being so soft. There it is people, in a nut shell. This is the reason the ROM will not be released. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Rev, do you really think that the ROM not being released is punishment over that email? That IS laughable. William has already stated that the email had nothing to do with the ROM not being released nor did it have any affect on any decisions regarding BD. The simple fact is, we have not sold anywhere near what we needed to warrant the release of the ROM. We still have CIBs we have paid fees for that have yet to be sold. These fees have already been paid to FSS. In order to release the ROM, we would need to pay more fees and William does not want to take the financial risk with sales on the CIBs being so soft. There it is people, in a nut shell. This is the reason the ROM will not be released. Now that makes sense 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Sounds like it's time to fire up the lawnmower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SoulBuster Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Sounds like it's time to fire up the lawnmower. Hover Bovver is due out later this year [shameless Plug]. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 I don't think it is the entire reason. I can only assume it is PART of the reason......otherwise bring it up at all? Either it IS...or it is NOT part of the reason. Elektronite brought is up....not us. So if the email plays no part in the rom cancellation, lets strike it from the record and forget it was brought up. Sounds good to me. P.s. Thanks for all your efforts bringing games to us. :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Sounds like it's time to fire up the lawnmower. Someone please mow this thread into oblivion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Rev, do you really think that the ROM not being released is punishment over that email? That IS laughable. William has already stated that the email had nothing to do with the ROM not being released nor did it have any affect on any decisions regarding BD. The simple fact is, we have not sold anywhere near what we needed to warrant the release of the ROM. We still have CIBs we have paid fees for that have yet to be sold. These fees have already been paid to FSS. In order to release the ROM, we would need to pay more fees and William does not want to take the financial risk with sales on the CIBs being so soft. There it is people, in a nut shell. This is the reason the ROM will not be released. I would have imagine that a couple of low-serial-number sales would have made up for the rest. Just mint a few more #1s, that's what, $200.00 a pop? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I don't think it is the entire reason. I can only assume it is PART of the reason......otherwise bring it up at all? Either it IS...or it is NOT part of the reason. Elektronite brought is up....not us. Hmmm...this point you have brought up is now making me confused again. Somebody please post something contradictory so I will know how to think again 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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