babrasch Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 The general consensus is that Alien vs Predator is one of the best selling Atari Jaguar games, and the best selling in the console's first year. But did it continue to be the best selling into its second (and fraction of a third) year? If not, what game did take that title? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Insanely Unrealistic Expectations - the Never Ending Adventure™ To this day it's the runaway title that fans never can get enough of. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think Cybermorph pretty much wins by default, seeing as it was a pack-in for so long. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think Cybermorph pretty much wins by default, seeing as it was a pack-in for so long. Man is that a messed up but truthful way to look at it... haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynxJagLunatic Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'd have to agree with Austin on this one. Cybermorph probably won by default due to being the pack in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I would have guessed Tempest 2000. But sure, I can see Cybermorph being the #1 seller. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Gold medal: CybermorphSilver: AvPBronze: Tempest 2000Out of what you said? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yeah, I imagine AvP probably being pretty high up there but for a game that would have sold so well, the price seems to retain its value rather high for being a best seller? AvP definitely seems harder to get a hold of where as Tempest 2000 is everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 On ebay Tempest 2000 is much common, sometimes even at "decent prices". AvP is there too, maybe slightly less common and therefore at a higher price.I believe the Tempest 2000 game was printed in more copies, but maybe selling around the same as AvP.AvP is a little earlier game than Tempest 2000, isn't it?Anyway, AvP is considered the most sold game here and there (no hard proof at hand, sorry), but I believe Tempest 2000 is close in sale number, but instead a much larger produced game, and therefore easier to pick up at ok prices. Remember that AvP also is a strong IP that adds lots to the price image. Everyone was so curious on the Predator and Alien connection from the end of Predator 2, and by that we today have lots of AvP games and movies pleasing that hunger - which started with the exclusive at Jaguar.AvP rarer cart + IP value. Tempest 2000 more common cart + no commercial IP in league with AvP. Today any collector of Jaguar owns both these games, and Cybermorph on default. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I picked AvP up from the start and waited a while with Tempest 2000, if THAT can add something to the logic behind a best selling list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Were there any official sales stats ever released for jag games? It would be interesting to see the top ten or twenty even and what they actually sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Were there any official sales stats ever released for jag games? It would be interesting to see the top ten or twenty even and what they actually sold. I would be interested in this too. We know the console sold about 125,000 units before liquidation, with an additional 100,000 units remaining in inventory before liquidation. Presumably, the remaining 100,000 units more or less made it out into the wild (i.e., not destroyed for tax purposes) in those liquidation bundles at places like QVC and TigerDirect (the latter is where I got my initial Jaguar collection), which were also a way to get rid of the excess cartridge (and CD) stock. So what would be most useful would be to know what sold when those 125,000 consoles were sold, not necessarily what went out with those 100,000 liquidation bundles, since that would skew the numbers. That would put pack-in Cybermorph at around 200,000 units sold (combing pre- and post-liquidation console numbers), making it by far the best seller. I'd honestly be surprised if any other title passed the 50,000 unit mark, and even that is probably pushing it. I'd also agree that Tempest 2000 and Alien vs. Predator are probably the second and third best selling titles. Again, nothing to go on (I'd like to see the manufacturing run numbers), but I'd be surprised if Atari manufactured more than 5 - 25 thousand units per cartridge title outside of a possible exception or two with the likes of a Tempest 2000 or AvP. It also wouldn't be unrealistic to assume that with only 125,000 consoles in the wild when it mattered (and probably a little under 100,000 when it wasn't clear it was on the way out) that the associated attach rates for some games would be quite low, meaning that selling only 5 - 10 thousand cartridges wouldn't be out of the question. The numbers simply were not in anyone's favor with the Jaguar. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Crazy to think that some programmers worked countless hours on some Jaguar games only to see 5-10 k copies produced... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantis Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Crazy to think that some programmers worked countless hours on some Jaguar games only to see 5-10 k copies produced... Not every game company live in luxury. You have to start from the bottom and work you way to the top, often for free on cheer love for the creative side of it. Some few companies make it, some don't. But yes it is crazy. =( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Crazy to think that some programmers worked countless hours on some Jaguar games only to see 5-10 k copies produced... Tell that to Lynx developer Duranik. I would be highly surprised if they sold a thousand units. Or 4Play - not just hours, but years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Havoc 2049 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 AvP is a little earlier game than Tempest 2000, isn't it? AvP was delayed and was originally supposed to come out shortly after Tempest 2000, during the 'launch window' of the North American/European Jaguar roll out of March 1994. AvP came out around late summer, early fall of 1994. That would put pack-in Cybermorph at around 200,000 units sold (combing pre- and post-liquidation console numbers), making it by far the best seller. I'd honestly be surprised if any other title passed the 50,000 unit mark, and even that is probably pushing it. I'd also agree that Tempest 2000 and Alien vs. Predator are probably the second and third best selling titles. Again, nothing to go on (I'd like to see the manufacturing run numbers), but I'd be surprised if Atari manufactured more than 5 - 25 thousand units per cartridge title outside of a possible exception or two with the likes of a Tempest 2000 or AvP. The Jaguar was sold in two SKUs, the original SKU with Cybermorph as the pack-in and the 64-Bit Power Kit SKU with no pack-in game. You would have to find a break down of the different SKUs. When Atari started to sell the 64-Bit Power Kit, is when they started to sell boxed copies of the gimped 1MB version of Cybermorph. I remember back in the day, it was either Sam Tramiel or one of the senior execs at Atari that said the two best selling Jaguar games were AvP and T2k and that they each sold around 50k each. Not sure if they were including Cybermorph though, as it was a pack-in game. If anyone is interested and if you break it down by years based on SEC fillings, here are Jaguar console sales by year: 1993: 17k 1994: 83k 1995: 25k 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 AvP was delayed and was originally supposed to come out shortly after Tempest 2000, during the 'launch window' of the North American/European Jaguar roll out of March 1994. AvP came out around late summer, early fall of 1994. The Jaguar was sold in two SKUs, the original SKU with Cybermorph as the pack-in and the 64-Bit Power Kit SKU with no pack-in game. You would have to find a break down of the different SKUs. When Atari started to sell the 64-Bit Power Kit, is when they started to sell boxed copies of the gimped 1MB version of Cybermorph. I remember back in the day, it was either Sam Tramiel or one of the senior execs at Atari that said the two best selling Jaguar games were AvP and T2k and that they each sold around 50k each. Not sure if they were including Cybermorph though, as it was a pack-in game. If anyone is interested and if you break it down by years based on SEC fillings, here are Jaguar console sales by year: 1993: 17k 1994: 83k 1995: 25k Good stuff. Even based off of the console bundle split, I think we'd still have to put Cybermorph at greater than 50k. In any case, at least we have a very good assumption that the top three were indeed Cybermorph, Tempest 2000, and AvP, and the non-pack-in high point being around 50,000 units or so, which is an amazing attach rate of around 40%, even if the actual numbers themselves are pitiful. I'd love to see a figure or two (or statement by a reliable source) on what some of the other "lesser" titles did, e.g., did any break 10,000 units sold, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Wow... 95 was an absolute bust for them altogether, wasn't it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete5125 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 My guess is Checkerd Flag because outside of cybermorph it is the easiest to find e-bay buy. The numbers of sales does surprise me I own like 3 Jags and one Jag cd, my friend in Knoxville still owns the one we had in college with 10 or so games, and their always seems to be at least a 100 or so to choose from on e-bay, plus they are available at many resellers, is this just US sales or does it include international numbers. I know the Jag bombed but it would mean that 90 percent of jag inventory is still in the wild or the jag community is just much smaller than I realise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 My guess is Checkerd Flag because outside of cybermorph it is the easiest to find e-bay buy. The numbers of sales does surprise me I own like 3 Jags and one Jag cd, my friend in Knoxville still owns the one we had in college with 10 or so games, and their always seems to be at least a 100 or so to choose from on e-bay, plus they are available at many resellers, is this just US sales or does it include international numbers. I know the Jag bombed but it would mean that 90 percent of jag inventory is still in the wild or the jag community is just much smaller than I realise Those are the real worldwide numbers. I'm actually glad the numbers have been verified every way possible, otherwise we'd have people claiming the system actually sold more than it did, since it's apparently sport to give the Jaguar abilities beyond what it actually has. As for Checkered Flag, that's probably among the easiest to find on eBay because I suspect only a handful of people actually liked the game enough to hold onto it. It might have also been overproduced relative to the desire to own it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete5125 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 it is with great surprise they would release a Jag cd add-on being that both turbografix 16 and sega genesis had released them with little success vs their original machine, I guess Atari could see CD's where the wave of the future and they where cheaper to make, they also got 3 or 4 extra games released of FMV games like Dragons Lair and Space Ace that wouldn't of made it out otherwise. So how many CD units made it out? 25K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 AvP is flat out referred to as "the company's best selling title" in the annual reports, not Tempest 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Havoc 2049 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 My guess is Checkerd Flag because outside of cybermorph it is the easiest to find e-bay buy. [/font] Checkered Flag was such a turd that it was the only Jaguar game back in the day I returned the same day I bought it and asked for my money back. Luckily the manager at my local EB was cool and gave me my money back...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Checkered Flag was such a turd that it was the only Jaguar game back in the day I returned the same day I bought it and asked for my money back. Luckily the manager at my local EB was cool and gave me my money back...lol. What you going to put your skunk in now lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 What you going to put your skunk in now lol. haha! …a clear case or an empty shell. Had to re-read your reply as Checkered Flag with the steering patch is always in my Skunk. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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