kiwilove Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I'd like to confirm what the release and availability of the Atari 400 and 800 home computers was as regards their timeline. When did these computers appear? One guess is that maybe it was as early as 1978? that their conceptual design started? Was it in 1979 that actual work started on them - such that we see that the early machines were only for 8K game carts and CTIA chips? By the end of 1979 production started? But it's only in 1980 and 1981 - that they were available on sale? 1981 for overseas markets? By this time GTIA chips were standard and 16k games carts the norm. The slow start for sales is probably due to their high cost - and it takes time to develop the software/games. (I remember the scarcity of games for the C-64 upon it's initial release - with nothing much running on it). Star Raiders gaining an award for it's excellence in 1982 seems to confirm the above timeline? Which has a copyright date of 1979. 1983 computer prices were dropping due to the lower priced computers appearing on the market. Atari had to lower theirs to compete ... Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 The work on Candy and Colleen began immediately after Stella had been shipped down to Division Street, in February of 1977, and went through a flurry of conceptual design changes, before system architecture work started in earnest in the Spring of 1978. The whole story is detailed _very_ well in Atari Inc. Business is Fun. Curt and Marty did a fantastic job of extrapolating the timeline both from verbal accounts, and engineering notebooks kept by Ron Milner, Al Alcorn, and others. -Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4ngerM4n Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 In case you speak German I can recommend the article written for the Atari 400 in de.wikipedia.org - it has all the facts (with sources) you are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 The initial shipments of 400/800 computers(limited quantities) was supposedly November 1979, in time for Christmas that year. I received a 400 w/410/BASIC/Star Raiders for Christmas 1980, and it came with 8K RAM and CTIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) The work on Candy and Colleen began immediately after Stella had been shipped down to Division Street, in February of 1977, and went through a flurry of conceptual design changes, before system architecture work started in earnest in the Spring of 1978. The whole story is detailed _very_ well in Atari Inc. Business is Fun. Curt and Marty did a fantastic job of extrapolating the timeline both from verbal accounts, and engineering notebooks kept by Ron Milner, Al Alcorn, and others. -Thom Thanks for that info. It seems that Atari did have the killer game - Star Raiders - but I guess hindsight says that they ought to have included that cart as a special pack? with it, and surely it would have flown off the shelves with no competitor able to match it. Though it would still be pricey. But like in anything else - if you wanted quality - you had to pay for it. Harvey Edited July 27, 2015 by kiwilove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 The initial shipments of 400/800 computers(limited quantities) was supposedly November 1979, in time for Christmas that year. I received a 400 w/410/BASIC/Star Raiders for Christmas 1980, and it came with 8K RAM and CTIA. Yeah, that's the impression that I get overall - that it was announced/shown in 1979 - but only available from 1980, and by 1981 - it was available in quantity. And by this date there were enough titles to show it off... Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Thanks for that info. It seems that Atari did have the killer game - Star Raiders - but I guess hindsight says that they ought to have included that cart as a special pack? with it, and surely it would have flown off the shelves with no competitor able to match it. Though it would still be pricey. But like in anything else - if you wanted quality - you had to pay for it. Harvey I think Atari quite rightly would never pack in Star Raiders with the 400/800 - first off it would have fixed the computers as just games machines in the eyes of consumers, something Atari was always going to struggle with, why compound that? Secondly giving away software with hardware is best avoided because if the buyer want's that game they will pay extra for it, and if they don't it's extra cost they could have not incurred (pack ins are not free after all). In addition as Atari found out much to their cost in the ST years, pack in software delays users from buying other software - and so slows down the market. Not packing in a brilliant game, but making sure everyone knows there is a brilliant game to buy is the best course... sTeVE P.S. 1980 was the first year I think the hardware was sold, I got my 800 in 1980... Edited July 27, 2015 by Jetboot Jack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I'd like to confirm what the release and availability of the Atari 400 and 800 home computers was as regards their timeline. When did these computers appear? One guess is that maybe it was as early as 1978? that their conceptual design started? Was it in 1979 that actual work started on them - such that we see that the early machines were only for 8K game carts and CTIA chips? By the end of 1979 production started? But it's only in 1980 and 1981 - that they were available on sale? 1981 for overseas markets? By this time GTIA chips were standard and 16k games carts the norm. The slow start for sales is probably due to their high cost - and it takes time to develop the software/games. (I remember the scarcity of games for the C-64 upon it's initial release - with nothing much running on it). Star Raiders gaining an award for it's excellence in 1982 seems to confirm the above timeline? Which has a copyright date of 1979. 1983 computer prices were dropping due to the lower priced computers appearing on the market. Atari had to lower theirs to compete ... Harvey I'm pretty sure I'd first seen Atari 400/800 pamphlets in late 1979. It was a few months before I saw a real machine in any computer stores. I tried to buy a 16K machine at perhaps 3 stores. No machines were in stock and no one wanted to sell anything but 48K machines. In November of 1980 I bought a 16K 800 from a mail order merchant offering an additional 8K for free. Price for the 800 was $749 USD. I think I also bought a 410 and BASIC for another $60. I still have that 800 and that BASIC cartridge. Sadly, I threw out the 410 probably in the mid '90s. -SteveS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I'm pretty sure I'd first seen Atari 400/800 pamphlets in late 1979. It was a few months before I saw a real machine in any computer stores. I tried to buy a 16K machine at perhaps 3 stores. No machines were in stock and no one wanted to sell anything but 48K machines. In November of 1980 I bought a 16K 800 from a mail order merchant offering an additional 8K for free. Price for the 800 was $749 USD. I think I also bought a 410 and BASIC for another $60. I still have that 800 and that BASIC cartridge. Sadly, I threw out the 410 probably in the mid '90s. -SteveS Woah... $749 in the 1970's must have been a real ordeal! Its pretty stiff right now to be honest, even in pounds!!! These machines really were the cream of the home-computer crop weren't they? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 The motherboard of 800 #26 says Rev 2 © 1978. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/122471-atari-800-engineering-serial-26/?do=findComment&comment=1492241 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 According to Joe Decuir's logs that he lent us for the book, work on the PCS started immediately after the VCS was completed. What became the 400 was in constant change as far as its goal, and in fact it wasn't decided it was going to be a game playing computer instead of a console until very much towards the end. It actually caused them to have to show a mockup of the 400 at the January '79 CES instead of a functioning one because it had just been decided it would have a keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8isa1 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Woah... $749 in the 1970's must have been a real ordeal! Its pretty stiff right now to be honest, even in pounds!!! These machines really were the cream of the come-computer crop weren't they? $749 USD was a discount price, not a particularly deep discount, but a discount.nonetheless. It was a lot of money for a student, for sure. One inflation calculator places $749 USD in 1981 as equivalent to $1966.34 today, in 2015. It was a fair chunk of change but not much relative the cost of say a college education.. I believe the initial retail price of the 800 was $1099 for the 48K machine and $799 for the 16K model There was a story that the model numbers were the intended prices for the machines, $400 for the 400 and $800 for the 800 but I guess things hanged in the 2 years (or so) it took to bring the computers to market. -SteveS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillC Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 From what I've read the 400/800 model names were supposed to reflect the base RAM of each system(4K/8K), however the RAM prices dropped enough before the systems shipped that Atari doubled it to 8K/16K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 What could have sold the early Atari 400/800 computers for the education market - would have been some input your own questions and answers kind of programs - in which you can easily create your own revision/etc material. While one such program did appear as a type in BASIC listing example - it was years later. The commercially sold educational programs probably rarely covered the subjects you were studying and were pretty expensive? Over here in New Zealand - the Atari 800 was priced the same as an Apple II - which was expensive, and of course lacked the extensive software library of the Apple II. The reason why the Atari 400/800s were so expensive here, is probably the importer of that time - had to purchase them at American retail? and then added their own markup on top of that. That's the only reason that I can account for the massive price hike. It seems to be the norm - that it started out as being priced for the enthusiast/hobbyist - and for the mass market to be interested, it has to be much cheaper/affordable - and there's always the delay for the software library to build up. And by the time the software library becomes extensive - it is very much the decline and end of it's short life cycle. People will say that the 16-bit computers failed to capture the same market - in being the next generation - and I have to say that it's hardware did fail to deliver what was hoped - but the 16-bit consoles did... at least for me the SNES did just that though I did also go Atari ST and then eventually Amiga 500 first. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 While I could be wrong, I was under the impression that there was an initial 8K model, then the standard RAM was upgraded to 16K, and that was it - until MUCH LATER in the 800's life when 48K became standard, towards the end of the run, and no 24K, 32K, 40K models in-between.. At least, that's what I was lead to believe by the few Atari dealers in Anchorage at the time. As it was explained to me, the 800 came with 8K, 16K, and then 48K, with a rather lengthy time between 16K and 48K, and by then the 48K was proudly advertised on the outside of the box. As usual, I could be wrong, but that was what the local (at the time) Atari dealer led me to believe. I started with an 8K/CTIA 400 and then upgraded to the 800 when 48K was standard, but mine was one that still had the flip-open top lid, and the three 16K modules were in actual cartridges, so it must have been an earlier unit. Later, we all saw the flip-open latches replaced with screws, and the "Memory Modules" replaced with naked boards, steadied by a plastic guide on top. I was shocked, the first time I saw that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilaskey Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Woah... $749 in the 1970's must have been a real ordeal! Its pretty stiff right now to be honest, even in pounds!!! These machines really were the cream of the home-computer crop weren't they? When I bought my Atari 400 etc it was £350 with another £350 for the 810 and £50 for the 410. I then got a 48K upgrade for £100 so £850 all in. Games were generally around £30-35 each. To put that in perspective, I was working in a bank and my monthly take home was £120 a month... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilaskey Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 From what I've read the 400/800 model names were supposed to reflect the base RAM of each system(4K/8K), however the RAM prices dropped enough before the systems shipped that Atari doubled it to 8K/16K. It was the expected price - $400 and $800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobus Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 While I could be wrong, I was under the impression that there was an initial 8K model, then the standard RAM was upgraded to 16K, and that was it - until MUCH LATER in the 800's life when 48K became standard, towards the end of the run, and no 24K, 32K, 40K models in-between.. At least, that's what I was lead to believe by the few Atari dealers in Anchorage at the time. As it was explained to me, the 800 came with 8K, 16K, and then 48K, with a rather lengthy time between 16K and 48K, and by then the 48K was proudly advertised on the outside of the box. Based solely upon the numbering scheme for the initial circuit boards, 8K was intended to be the base memory (board #3) for the 800. The 16K board was almost an afterthought at #11. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/240643-400800-circuit-board-numbering/?p=3287077 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 As usual, I could be wrong, but that was what the local (at the time) Atari dealer led me to believe. I started with an 8K/CTIA 400 and then upgraded to the 800 when 48K was standard, but mine was one that still had the flip-open top lid, and the three 16K modules were in actual cartridges, so it must have been an earlier unit. Later, we all saw the flip-open latches replaced with screws, and the "Memory Modules" replaced with naked boards, steadied by a plastic guide on top. I was shocked, the first time I saw that. I think you're correct, actually. The 400 my brother and I saved up for and bought in 1982 already had 16K memory that had become standard by that point and a GTIA chip. When we sold the 400 and bought an 800 in the summer of '83, it was a 48K machine with screws in place of tabs on the lid, and no cases around the RAM boards. I currently own two 800's. One of them has screws in place of tabs and three Atari 16K RAM boards. The other looks to be a year or two younger, as it still has thumb-tabs for the lid. However, it has only one Atari 16K RAM board and an aftermarket 32K board as well. There's no plastic case around the Atari RAM board, however. I speculate that perhaps the original owner heard the complaints or read the magazine articles about overhearing, especially once he or she got the 32K board, and decided to remove the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Based solely upon the numbering scheme for the initial circuit boards, 8K was intended to be the base memory (board #3) for the 800. The 16K board was almost an afterthought at #11. If you read this topic, you see that 16K and 4K RAM boards were planned from the start. Really, the 8K board was the afterthought. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/122471-atari-800-engineering-serial-26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 ClausB is correct. -Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenjennings Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 What I find interesting is that even though almost nobody had one at the end of 1979, the Atari 800 was on the cover of Compute issue 1 (late 1979) along with systems that had been on the market for years; Pet, Apple, and other 6502 single board computers. The first "Atari Gazette" column is basically a thick sales brochure for the system. The lead time on magazine publishing probably meant the editors put it together well before anyone could even buy one. The Atari 8-bit capabilities were so paradigm shifting the editors just couldn't help themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClausB Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 And that column was written by John Victor of PDI, who gave me old #26. http://www.atarimagazines.com/compute/issue1/3188_1_THE_ATARI_GAZETTE_ATARI_COMPUTERS_THE_ULTIMATE_TEACHING_MACHINES.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psomerf Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 My high school computer science teacher (OK, he was just and interested math teacher) got an Atari 800 about a year before I bought mine. In fact, see its graphics abilities was what influenced me greatly. His classroom had several PETs. He just could not figure out a way to to get the computer to fit into his, er, program. I bought my 800 in December 1980. That means he bought (and returned) his 800 in the November/December 1979 time frame. It was definitely prior to Christmas break 1979/1980. This was in the middle of nowhere, in Western NY. (If ever there is a shining center to galaxy, we live in the city that is farthest from ....) My 800 has a hand written serial number which suggested an early November 1979 manufacture date, if I read it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.