Atari 2600 won't display on modern TV (with or without VCR)

[Rajada]

Now let me start by saying I have done extensive research into this. I'm aware of all ways of connecting an atari to a modern TV, but what I really need is an opinion on wether my specific issue is my own stupidity, or the TV just won't do it.

 

The TV is: http://www.vizio.com/e65c3.html

 

I'm using the RCA to coax adapter. Directly connecting it to the TV via coax and switching to this input yeilds no result.

 

I connect the Atari to the input of a VCR, then connect the composite output to the TV. I can get the VCR to play tapes over the TV, both video and audio, but I cannot get the Atari to display through it.

 

Is it possible that the VCR is not a good enough demodulator/converter for this modern of a TV?

Is there usually some menu option you need to tinker with to get a digital TV to detect the input (either directly or through a VCR).

 

Is it possible that this TV just doesn't have the capability I need to play the Atari on it?

[Mitkraft]

Since you haven't said it implicitly I want to make sure you are aware: The Atari does not output a "video" (composite) signal. You can't just plug it to an input an expect it to work. The Atari is set to either output to RF channel 3 or 4 (NTSC/Analog) so its has to be connected to the Antenna input on the VCR or TV and that device has to be set to channel 3 or 4 depending on your setting on the underside of the Atari. Many new TV's don't even have an NTSC (analog) tuner and can only tune ATSC (digital) channels. These TV's would not be able to tune to the Atari's channel 3/4 at all without an external demodulator/VCR.

 

You might already know this but aside from using the word "demodulator" your description skips over saying anything specifically about tuning to a channel.

[Andromeda Stardust]

This is indeed unfortunate. Many old video game consoles outputted nonstandard NTSC signals. Analog hardware had no trouble displaying the signals but modern digital equipment expects very strict timings and may not work properly.

 

I won't get into specifics but an NTSC frame is composed of either 262 or 263 scanlines with a specific period of Vblank and overscan areas. The viewable area is 240 scanlines which make up either the even or the odd scanlines in a standard 480i signal. Normally an interlaced NTSC picture consists of alternating scanlines with 262 and 263 scan counts at a video rate of 59.94 frames /sec. Most 3rd, 4th, and 5th generation consoles output a progressive signal with 262 scanlines per frame. NES, SNES, N64 generally display fine but any 30Hz sprite flicker appears onscreen as fine pitch horizontal venetian blinds.

 

Additionally, there is a specific number of color clocks that make up each horizontal scanline. I forget the exact figure but in addition to various VCS games often having a varying amount of scanlines, the 2600 and 7800 do not get the color clocks per scanline correct either. My Hauppauge USB TV tuner yields ugly grayscale graphics on SMS and Atari 2600, and outright refuses to display my Best 7800 composite signal. I have not attempted to record VCS games with it.

 

If you have an NES or SNES, you might try hooking it up to your HDTV. This will verify that your set can display progressive 240p video output from old consoles that otherwise adhere to NTSC spec. If not, nothing prior to 6th generation will work. Many modern HDTV sets share the composite with the green component input, and many of these newer sets are incapable of displaying 240p over component and may or may not behave similarly when presented a 240p composite over the same input.

 

You can also try recording VCS output and playing it back, but since VHS is analog medium, the signal recorded onto the VHS tape will likely be off-spec as is the original output.

 

My recommendation (if you cannot acquire or have space for a CRT TV for dedicated retro gaming) is to get a composite to HDMI adapter for your TV set. They sell these on Amazon and elsewhere. You feed a composite or S-Video signal into the converter which will output either 720p, 1080i, or 1080p depending on settings. Most of these use older cheaper analog converter chips which are much more fault tolerant to out of spec NTSC signal compared to the latest chips in HDTVs. Bear in mind this will stretch the picture to wide screen and some newer sets do not have the option to change the aspect when connected to HDMI. You will also get venetian blinds with the converter whenever sprite flicker exists onscreen since most cheap $30-$40 converters will attempt to deinterlace 240p signals as 480i, but at least your game will be playable. They will also add lag to the HDTV display which can be minimized by selecting the native output resolution of the HDTV, for instance 1080p if your set supports it.

 

The next step up are the ridiculously pricey XRGB minis and such which properly upscale 240p content to 720p or 1080p to create razor sharp pixels on your HDTV, with optional processing filters such as scanlines, etc. Beware these expensive scalers start at $200-$300 and go up from there [!]

 

My advice to you, is to use two displays for gaming. A CRT for retro consoles that output composite (6th gen and lower) and a low latency 1080p HDMI gaming monitor for HD consoles (7th gen and up). The only console you'll have trouble hooking up under such a setup is the Wii with it's 480p widescreen component. I play my Wii games on my Wii-U through HDMI and the upscaler is brilliant. PC monitors tend to be ultra low latency because they don't heavily process the video signal. I use an HDMI splitter for the HD consoles to redirect analog audio to my stereo system, for quality sound, because the tinny speakers embedded in flat panels quite frankly sound like @#$%.

 

I direct connect consoles that output RF (switch boxes, auto Nintendo style or manual Atari style, only serve to degrade the signal) and use a composite switchbox for those that output composite. The HD consoles I reroute through the HDMI switchbox, and audio to the stereo. I use the same 8-port composite switchbox to select the audio from the game consoles that support A/V as well have my turntable on it, feed into the AUX on my stereo. Vintage Jensen speakers with flat EQ; sounds really sweet.

 

TL;DR - Get a CRT for dedicated retro gaming, or buy an external composite to HDMI converter on Amazon for $30-$40 bucks.

Edited July 29, 2015 by stardust4ever

[Rajada]

After switching my VCR to channel 3 I can see the atari input flicker in for a moment as my TV scans for input. But it does not stop and tries all other resolutions (480, 480i, 720, etc...) If I could only tell it which one to choose it would be fine. By fiddling with controls I was able to get black and white input constant through a VCR, but now I can't reproduce it. I think this TV doesn't like the signal.

[+save2600]

Sooooooooo many modern TV's have horrible RF input circuitry - it's really not funny. At all. I've got two (fairly expensive as I do NOT shop at Wah-Mah for this kind of stuff) sets in the house that hardly pick up a signal, even using $100 amplified antenna's!

 

So, not shocked to hear that one of these crummy modern sets wouldn't play nice with an Atari 2600: one of the most robust pieces of hardware ever created.

 

Psssst…. in case you haven't heard, LCD's absolutely suck for classic gaming. Many, many reasons - not the least of which, input lag, blockiness, etc. If you really want to play old games, stick with a CRT or emulation I guess. It's the simplest two answers. Or play modern television roulette, returning each and every set until you accidentally stumble across one that kinda/sorta happens to work with your old hardware. There are many, many, many topics here and on the interwebs that speak of such things…

[Rajada]

Yeah I just wanted to rule out my own stupidity, I'll just have to stick to the CRT TV in the back I guess.

[imstarryeyed]

I will definitely agree with a separate crt for your classic games, no lag, non stretched picture, great color and brightness. The biggest reason however is gun games, since modern tvs don't work with classic guns like the nes zapper, or she's super scope or ps1 time crisis games etc.

 

I think hd tvs are just awful for classic games in my opinion.

[Mott]

Hi I have a similar problem but my two Atari 2600 woodies with fixed cables refuse to scan on analog TV tuners. o

One is a Samsung LCD and the other my old CRT. My UK Atari does not have a channel changer switche on the bottom of the unit. 

I tried tuning in on both 3 and 4 ch with no joy. The Atari  lead fits straight into the TV cable in socket. 

 

Ripping hair out this end!! 

 

Sorry for jumping in on thread 

The funny thing is my old pong game does tune in to both TV sets. Maybe I bought two duff units.. 

[Mitkraft]

1 hour ago, Mott said:

Hi I have a similar problem but my two Atari 2600 woodies with fixed cables refuse to scan on analog TV tuners. o

One is a Samsung LCD and the other my old CRT. My UK Atari does not have a channel changer switche on the bottom of the unit. 

I tried tuning in on both 3 and 4 ch with no joy. The Atari  lead fits straight into the TV cable in socket. 

 

Ripping hair out this end!! 

 

Sorry for jumping in on thread 

The funny thing is my old pong game does tune in to both TV sets. Maybe I bought two duff units.. 

You say the atari lead fits right into the socket. It shouldn’t. The Atari is sending an RF signal on an RCA connector. Every TV I’ve ever seem uses a coax (F type I think its called) for RF signals. RCA connections are usually for video inputs. 

[Mott]

8 hours ago, Mitkraft said:

You say the atari lead fits right into the socket. It shouldn’t. The Atari is sending an RF signal on an RCA connector. Every TV I’ve ever seem uses a coax (F type I think its called) for RF signals. RCA connections are usually for video inputs. 

Hi both tv have a standard aerial non screw push in socket and both Atari are not the og pin type which needed an RF adaptor but looks like the usual old lead you ran from TV to VHS recorder.. Ah does this mean it has to go through a VHS feed or a switcher box? 

Sorry its been twenty plus years since I used one.. 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Mott

[Mott]

Found problem.. 

It had a dodgy power switch so contacted the seller to see if they can help as I only got it last night. 

 

Phew!... I have a few strands of hair left

Edited November 12, 2019 by Mott