FPGA Based Videogame System

[Sneakyturtleegg]

No, your point isn't a point, it's broken. If Analogue planned to keep marketing the nt mini they would make a version with a cost effective case because the super nt is literally the exact same hardware without a dac and a better fpga chip in it for literally $320 less.

 

At the pricepoint the Super Nt is at they will sell a hundred or more per nt mini they sell. So why in the name of god would they try to hold on to a share of the market for the nt mini when they could instead contribute to super nt sales?

 

The NT Mini and Super NT are for 2 completely different markets. No reason they can't sell both. There is nothing wrong with respectfully agreeing to disagree, which is fine. I do want to thank you for your work with the Analogue NT Mini rom pack with Smokemonster. It is awesome and one of the reasons I bought the console. Also, Smokemonster just updated the rom pack to 1.8 and added some fixes by Great Hierophant. He wrote a few great NT Mini articles in his Nerdly Pleasures blog that are worth reading. It is worth upgrading to the new rom pack if you haven't in a while.

 

Check it out

http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/

Edited November 15, 2017 by Sneakyturtleegg

[+remowilliams]

My instincts keep telling me that the Core Store isn't making a return either, or at least not like 'the good old days' I'd love to be wrong about that but putting the same basic HW innards (as much as they possibly can given the relative FPGA power/price limits) in different plastic boxes and pinouts does seem to make the most business sense.

 

My support for them ends there with the NT Mini if that's ultimately their plan. However this business model is viable even to the extent that a vendor can/will keep selling you essentially the same thing - Atari Flashback anyone?

[Sneakyturtleegg]

Kevtris spoiled all of us with the free cores for the NT Mini. Lets not take that for granted and expect it to continue. I for one am very thankful. He deserved to be compensated for the years of work he put into the cores for the NT Mini. He didn't ask for a penny. No Patreon. No nothing. I would have gladly donated or paid for each core that he released. He has his reasons for not charging, and to that I say thank you Kevin!

[Newsdee]

If you want cores, spread the word about open source projects Far from perfect still, but they are not tied to a single board or device. There are already three major boards out there at various price points and a fourth might show up (FPGA Arcade is planning a V2 according to their forums). Cores have been ported across all of these so the boards all benefit each other, in the end. Of course, if the NTs were to offer developer 3rd party support they would also benefit. But don't take my word for it, check them out in Google and YT videos

Edited November 15, 2017 by Newsdee

[Andromeda Stardust]

Look at Analogue's bottom line. NT Mini sold like gangbusters over AVS not because of slightly higher resolution or an attractive case, but due to the jailbreak firmware. It doesn't matter how many Super NTs Analogue can sell without jailbreak firmwares. If Kevtris releases his awesome sauce "jailbreak" firmware on the Super NT, it will be double that.

 

Once Super NT is released, there won't be much keeping the NT Mini attractive pricepoint wise, so I'm going to predict that NT Mini will be discontinued, and a streamlined "NT Lite" or "Slim" or whatever the heck you want to call it, minus the aluminum brick and analog outputs, will eventually take it's place. Even if not, then it would make all the more sense to release the Super jailbreak firmware in concordance with the NT Mini's discontinuation.

 

And yes, I believe more consoles such as Genesis / Atari will follow. 9-pin connectors built in? Yes please! Where will it stop? Who knows? But for the time being, Analogue only seeks to profit from increased Super NT sales if they allow Kevtris to release the JB firmware on it.

 

I PREDICT, HERE AND NOW, THAT WITHIN 7 DAYS OF RELEASE OF THE SUPER NT, AN "UNOFFICIAL" FIRMWARE WILL BE RELEASED, ALLOWING AT MINIMUM THE ABILITY TO PLAY VANILLA SNES ROMS OFF THE SUPER NT, BUT MOST LIKELY A WHOLE LOT MORE...

 

Now taking bets to prove me wrong, starting at 500 Galactic credits. Anybody in?

Disclaimer: Galactic credits are a purely fictional currency and contain zero monetary value. 1 Galactic credit = $0 USD.

 

[Sneakyturtleegg]

Look at Analogue's bottom line. NT Mini sold like gangbusters over AVS not because of slightly higher resolution or an attractive case, but due to the jailbreak firmware. It doesn't matter how many Super NTs Analogue can sell without jailbreak firmwares. If Kevtris releases his awesome sauce "jailbreak" firmware on the Super NT, it will be double that.

 

Once Super NT is released, there won't be much keeping the NT Mini attractive pricepoint wise, so I'm going to predict that NT Mini will be discontinued, and a streamlined "NT Lite" or "Slim" or whatever the heck you want to call it, minus the aluminum brick and analog outputs, will eventually take it's place. Even if not, then it would make all the more sense to release the Super jailbreak firmware in concordance with the NT Mini's discontinuation.

 

And yes, I believe more consoles such as Genesis / Atari will follow. 9-pin connectors built in? Yes please! Where will it stop? Who knows? But for the time being, Analogue only seeks to profit from increased Super NT sales if they allow Kevtris to release the JB firmware on it.

 

I PREDICT, HERE AND NOW, THAT WITHIN 7 DAYS OF RELEASE OF THE SUPER NT, AN "UNOFFICIAL" FIRMWARE WILL BE RELEASED, ALLOWING AT MINIMUM THE ABILITY TO PLAY VANILLA SNES ROMS OFF THE SUPER NT, BUT MOST LIKELY A WHOLE LOT MORE...

 

Now taking bets to prove me wrong, starting at 500 Galactic credits. Anybody in?

Disclaimer: Galactic credits are a purely fictional currency and contain zero monetary value. 1 Galactic credit = $0 USD.

 

 

500 Galactic credits is too rich for my blood, but I will surely bet you 1.21!

[cacophony]

Look at Analogue's bottom line. NT Mini sold like gangbusters over AVS not because of slightly higher resolution or an attractive case, but due to the jailbreak firmware. It doesn't matter how many Super NTs Analogue can sell without jailbreak firmwares. If Kevtris releases his awesome sauce "jailbreak" firmware on the Super NT, it will be double that.

 

If I had to guess, the AVS sold more units based purely on price. The Nt Mini did sell fine before the jailbreak due to people that wanted analog output, 5x by 6x scaling for accurate PAR, custom palettes, etc. But yes, I'm sure sales increased due to the jailbreak.

Edited November 15, 2017 by cacophony

[cacophony]

At the pricepoint the Super Nt is at they will sell a hundred or more per nt mini they sell.

 

These are both niche products. The Nt Mini sold on the order of a few thousand units (based on order numbers). The Super Nt might sell 5000-10,000 units but there's no way it's selling 200,000+ units!

[Wolf_]

 

These are both niche products. The Nt Mini sold on the order of a few thousand units (based on order numbers). The Super Nt might sell 5000-10,000 units but there's no way it's selling 200,000+ units!

Nt Mini sold around 10k units total but that doesn't have anything to do with what I said which was that 100 Super Nts will sell for every 1 Nt Mini. As in once the Super Nt is out no one will buy Nt Minis any more. If Analogue truly intended to sell the Nt Mini along side the Super Nt then obviously they would make a plastic shell for it because that literally lowers the production costs by $320 which is over 50% of the total cost of the console itself and would drastically increase sales. Analogue has confirmed a lower cost version of the Nt Mini is not in production so the question becomes: Why not?

 

The only answer that springs to mind in response to that is that injection molds for the plastic cases cost about 50 grand each. Clearly Analogue believes the demand for the Nt Mini after the release of the Super Nt will not be great enough to recoup that investment so they have decided to simply keep selling them as is with the case they already invested in a production method for as that won't cost them any additional money to continue using.

 

tl;dr: Analogue doesn't think the Nt Mini will have a demand after the Super Nt comes out or else they would invest in a $300 cheaper model to increase sales drastically. As a result any logical person would come to the conclusion that they plan to add as many selling points to the Super Nt as possible because that will net them a far greater return than if they only offered those features on an overpriced product they don't believe will sell well.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Wolf_

[Shin_K]

no mention of PC Engine in the article makes me sad though.

Will eagerly wait for Megadrive. (but the Super NT can't come soon enough)

[cacophony]

Nt Mini sold around 10k units total ...

 

Based on what?

 

I pre-ordered the Nt mini within a couple hours of it first going live and got order number 28XX. I also preordered the Super Nt within a couple hours of it going live and got order number 46XX.

 

So unless you have insider info or believe that a large number of people ordered multiple units, it seems logical to conclude that the Nt Mini sold ~2000 units.

 

I agree that Nt Mini sales will likely drop significantly if the Super Nt can play 8 bit systems, but whether that happens is still unknown.

[Wolf_]

 

Based on what?

 

I pre-ordered the Nt mini within a couple hours of it first going live and got order number 28XX. I also preordered the Super Nt within a couple hours of it going live and got order number 46XX.

 

So unless you have insider info or believe that a large number of people ordered multiple units, it seems logical to conclude that the Nt Mini sold ~2000 units.

 

I agree that Nt Mini sales will likely drop significantly if the Super Nt can play 8 bit systems, but whether that happens is still unknown.

 

 

Nt Mini sold around 10k units total but that doesn't have anything to do with what I said

There is no point debating how many Nt Minis have sold. It has no impact on the discussion. Literally just covered that.

 

And the Super Nt playing 8 bit systems is indicated by the reasons I just stated in the previous post. (A lack of investment in a production method that would reduce the cost of the NT Mini by 64%! If Analogue didn't expect a drop in Nt Mini sales clearly it would be worth the 50 grand investment to sell the console incredibly cheaper and reach a way bigger market)

[cacophony]

 

 

There is no point debating how many Nt Minis have sold. It has no impact on the discussion. Literally just covered that.

 

And the Super Nt playing 8 bit systems is indicated by the reasons I just stated in the previous post. (A lack of investment in a production method that would reduce the cost of the NT Mini by 64%! If Analogue didn't expect a drop in Nt Mini sales clearly it would be worth the 50 grand investment to sell the console incredibly cheaper and reach a way bigger market)

 

Not debating, just pointing out the wildly inaccurate speculation on your part

 

We'll see what happens in a few months wrt the Super Nt and Analogue's strategy going forward.

Edited November 15, 2017 by cacophony

[gulps]

Hello partners! Which NES palette do you prefer for the consumer CRT-TV or professional PVM/BVM at the RGB side loaded at the Nt Mini?

My opinion for my consumer CRT-TV (B&O MX4000) I prefer the "Sony CXA2025AS".

http://wavebeam.blogspot.com.es/2017/03/wavebeam-nes-palette.html

One suggestion. For the VGA cables at the Nt Mini I recommend to install the classic VGA screws to attach firmly the VGA cable:

no mention of PC Engine in the article makes me sad though.

Will eagerly wait for Megadrive. (but the Super NT can't come soon enough)

 

I hope the PCE / TurboGrafx-16 is on the list with the Famicom Disk System / FDS emulation

 

 

 

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Based on what?

 

I pre-ordered the Nt mini within a couple hours of it first going live and got order number 28XX. I also preordered the Super Nt within a couple hours of it going live and got order number 46XX.

 

So unless you have insider info or believe that a large number of people ordered multiple units, it seems logical to conclude that the Nt Mini sold ~2000 units.

 

I agree that Nt Mini sales will likely drop significantly if the Super Nt can play 8 bit systems, but whether that happens is still unknown.

There are at least 4000 of the black model of the Super NT still in stock. Either the black unit is far less popular option, or they made boatloads more of them.

 

I had fun with the cart checkout last night. Attempted to add 5000 of each SKU to peek at stock quantities. Why didn't I think to do this after they first launched?

 

Sales ranking by order of popularity (assuming equal numbers of the first 3 SKUs).

 

#1 - Clear

#2 - Super Famicom

#3 - Classic NA purple

 

Black???

 

 

Inventory issues

 

Some products became unavailable and your cart has been updated. We're sorry for the inconvenience.

 

Description Quantity

5000

Analogue Super Nt - SF (controller not included) 5000 → 920

 

5000

Analogue Super Nt - Classic (controller not included) 5000 → 1327

 

5000

Analogue Super Nt - Transparent (controller not included) 5000 → 630

 

5000

Analogue Super Nt - Black (controller not included) 5000 → 4334

 

[Toth]

 

Hello partners! Which NES palette do you prefer for the consumer CRT-TV or professional PVM/BVM at the RGB side loaded at the Nt Mini?

My opinion for my consumer CRT-TV (B&O MX4000) I prefer the "Sony CXA2025AS".

http://wavebeam.blogspot.com.es/2017/03/wavebeam-nes-palette.html

One suggestion. For the VGA cables at the Nt Mini I recommend to install the classic VGA screws to attach firmly the VGA cable:

 

I hope the PCE / TurboGrafx-16 is on the list with the Famicom Disk System / FDS emulation

 

 

 

 

If you open up the Nt Mini the frame of the VGA connector isn't actually attached to the Nt Mini so screwing anything into those screws for support like on a monitor isn't really doing anything to support the actual connector/plug. You can still move it back and forth unlike in a monitor where you are probably anchoring the plug to the frame of the monitor. All you are doing in this case is anchoring the plug to the connector more firmly but it isn't giving the actual connector any more support. If the VGA connector on the Nt Mini broke due to stress it would take the metal frame around it as well as it isn't attached to the frame or case of the Mini.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Toth

[Toth]

I see the regular Nt Mini is sold out. I am so glad I got one when I did. I am guessing the ebay prices are going to be insane on this thing once especially once the black model is sold out

Edited November 15, 2017 by Toth

[gulps]

If you open up the Nt Mini the frame of the VGA connector isn't actually attached to the Nt Mini so screwing anything into those screws for support like on a monitor isn't really doing anything to support the actual connector/plug. You can still move it back and forth unlike in a monitor where you are probably anchoring the plug to the frame of the monitor. All you are doing in this case is anchoring the plug to the connector more firmly but it isn't giving the actual connector any more support. If the VGA connector on the Nt Mini broke due to stress it would take the metal frame around it as well as it isn't attached to the frame or case of the Mini.

 

 

Hi Toth! I didn't opened the Nt Mini to see his internals. But I exptect that the VGA connector has a through hole PCB soldering (not as surface soldering SMD like the first batch of RetroUSB AVS).

This is common on all classic PC motherboards:

I made my own cable and is very thick. I used professional audio cables (Sommer cable, Germany and REAN connectors from Neutrik, ) that I own:

( Yes! I forgot to buy a nylon mesh for nicer look... )

[Toth]

Yep, it's just like those with nothing behind it at all, just the rather large pins that go down to the board..

Edited November 15, 2017 by Toth

[cfillak]

I see the regular Nt Mini is sold out. I am so glad I got one when I did. I am guessing the ebay prices are going to be insane on this thing once especially once the black model is sold out

I'm glad I pulled the trigger on a black model; I knew at the very least if I was ever dissatisfied with it I would be able to get all (if not more than) my money back. I have a hunch that this may be the final run of the NT Mini. From the way Analogue have described it, they see the Super NT as their breakthrough product, finally reaching a mass market (well, more of a mass market than the Mini with its aircraft grade aluminum shell).

 

If they really discontinue the NT Mini, I could see them allowing the NES core to be ported to the Super NT. I also see no reason for them to disallow the oddball cores for systems that not many people have heard of like Gamate, Supervision, Arcadia 2001 etc. to be ported to the Super NT and any future system. The only cores already written that I could see them holding back from the Super NT are: SMS, Game Gear, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, and maybe Atari 2600. It all depends on which consoles Analogue think can be the center of a marketable product.

 

Personally, I'm very satisfied with the cores currently on the NT Mini and will be exploring them for years. My hope is that Analogue lets Kevtris write and port the following cores from his list onto the NT Mini, even if/when it's discontinued:

2nd Gen:

APF-MP1000

Atari 5200

Bally Astrocade

Interon VC 4000/1292 Advanced Programmable Video System

Vectrex

Super Vision 8000

 

3rd Gen:

Casio PV-1000

 

Handheld:

micro gameboy (Pokemon Mini)

lynx

microvision?

game master (I have one now)

megaduck/cougar boy (I have one now)

 

 

I think Genesis will definitely get its own bespoke console. I know PC Engine was very popular in Japan but I don't know if a bespoke TurboGrafx-16 could carry a product in North America. I have no idea what they'll do with Neo Geo. Didn't Analogue release OG Analogue NT style Neo Geo consoles (ie. cannibalized original hardware)? Super A'Can will definitely be a bonus core.

 

Sadly, I think the dream of the Zimba 3000 is dead, and maybe that's okay. If Kevtris is really fully employed by Analogue now, the original conception of the Zimba is not a sustainable business. You can make one product and then you're done, maybe releasing revisions in the future with beefier FPGAs to accommodate more demanding cores. If bespoke products for each major console is the only way to get these consoles FPGA'd and preserved then I'll take what I can get. Hopefully the advent of these products spurs interest in FPGAs, VHDL and people will be inspired to write Free Software cores. We all think Kevtris is great, but the dream of an all in one FPGA console cannot be pinned on one person. He needs to get paid and feed himself. Hopefully his work will inspire people to the point that eventually we can roll our own Raspberry Pi style FPGA box and download the latest open source cores from the community.

[cacophony]

There are at least 4000 of the black model of the Super NT still in stock. Either the black unit is far less popular option, or they made boatloads more of them.

 

I had fun with the cart checkout last night. Attempted to add 5000 of each SKU to peek at stock quantities. Why didn't I think to do this after they first launched?

 

Sales ranking by order of popularity (assuming equal numbers of the first 3 SKUs).

 

#1 - Clear

#2 - Super Famicom

#3 - Classic NA purple

 

Black???

 

 

Interesting! From what I gather from social media the black version is pretty well received, so maybe black sold more quickly initially and they arranged for more to be made?

[Kismet]

 

Hello partners! Which NES palette do you prefer for the consumer CRT-TV or professional PVM/BVM at the RGB side loaded at the Nt Mini?

My opinion for my consumer CRT-TV (B&O MX4000) I prefer the "Sony CXA2025AS".

http://wavebeam.blogspot.com.es/2017/03/wavebeam-nes-palette.html

One suggestion. For the VGA cables at the Nt Mini I recommend to install the classic VGA screws to attach firmly the VGA cable:

 

I hope the PCE / TurboGrafx-16 is on the list with the Famicom Disk System / FDS emulation

 

 

 

 

 

I want to point out that in the Nintendo Power magazine, I will always associate that SMB screen with having a more orange color, while knowing that the blue was slightly more on the violet side. So I'd say the FCEUX palette looks like the intended color, but that Sony CXA is probably the right brightness. Those bricks in SMB are not supposed to be bright red or brown, so the other three look off.

[Kismet]

There are at least 4000 of the black model of the Super NT still in stock. Either the black unit is far less popular option, or they made boatloads more of them.

 

I had fun with the cart checkout last night. Attempted to add 5000 of each SKU to peek at stock quantities. Why didn't I think to do this after they first launched?

 

Sales ranking by order of popularity (assuming equal numbers of the first 3 SKUs).

 

#1 - Clear

#2 - Super Famicom

#3 - Classic NA purple

 

Black???

 

 

Interesting.

 

 

 

If I had to guess, the AVS sold more units based purely on price. The Nt Mini did sell fine before the jailbreak due to people that wanted analog output, 5x by 6x scaling for accurate PAR, custom palettes, etc. But yes, I'm sure sales increased due to the jailbreak.

 

I doubt it. The AVS was for people who wanted a replacement for their NES. The NT Mini was for people who wanted a premium product.

 

My guess is that after the Super NT is released, they will either produce a pin adapter to allow the FC/NES carts to be used on it, and discontinue the NT Mini once they run out of inventory, or they will update the NT Mini to have the A6 Cyclone V, and call it the NT Mini+ , and release a pin adapter for that.

 

Obviously Analogue would make more money by selling pin adapters rather than essentially identical consoles with different branding. So I'd expect "pin adapters" for the common consoles, and people will just use their flash carts.

 

Now that I think about it, this does create a specific kind of incentive to make a flashcart explicitly to work with the JB firmware where the cart has it's own save/savestate management that works across different cores by emulating the pin adapters.

[Riptide]

Sadly, I think the dream of the Zimba 3000 is dead, and maybe that's okay. If Kevtris is really fully employed by Analogue now, the original conception of the Zimba is not a sustainable business. You can make one product and then you're done, maybe releasing revisions in the future with beefier FPGAs to accommodate more demanding cores. If bespoke products for each major console is the only way to get these consoles FPGA'd and preserved then I'll take what I can get. Hopefully the advent of these products spurs interest in FPGAs, VHDL and people will be inspired to write Free Software cores. We all think Kevtris is great, but the dream of an all in one FPGA console cannot be pinned on one person. He needs to get paid and feed himself. Hopefully his work will inspire people to the point that eventually we can roll our own Raspberry Pi style FPGA box and download the latest open source cores from the community.

Who knows, maybe later on down the line we can crowdfund to pay Kevtris to port the extra cores that Analogue doesn't own to something like the MISTer (or whatever the equivalent is then). Don't get me wrong, I love OSS, but the amount of work it takes to get a high level of accuracy with these things makes me think we'll usually only get great ones when someone gets paid.

[cacophony]

I doubt it. The AVS was for people who wanted a replacement for their NES. The NT Mini was for people who wanted a premium product.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "premium product" here, but my interest in the Nt Mini had everything to do with the higher quality video output capability and nothing to do with the luxury build.

 

I was looking for a replacement for my NES, and in addition to replacing my NES I also replaced my AVS!