TPR Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Very sorry you took it as "slamming". I believe I posted a qualified, dignified response as a commentary on your critique. In turn, you seemed to show a lot of defensiveness. I believe that if you stick your neck out with a critique, you yourself can take somewhat of a review as well. Clearly this is not the case. I hope you become better at taking things softly and don't feel such a need to defend yourself all for a fun little game for a budding homebrew community suggestion And yes, the word "amateur", does tend to carry a pejorative meaning along with it. I would suggest a term that might be more euphemistic toward the people you support. By the way, great review. Was only getting defensive because I stand by what I wrote, I believe it was very favorable and it just felt like I was getting attacked for things I didn't say or that other people interpreted incorrectly. And being told my opinion doesn't really count because I'm newer to this community didn't really sit well with me either, but perhaps I also interpreted that incorrectly, and for that I apologize. I respect your stance and glad you posted a follow-up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Tarzilla Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I agree with this. It was hard to categorize. I feel like #3 is a fairly broad range of games going from titles that are VERY close to being more of a commercial release but not *quite* (like Mr. Turtle) to games like Jet Pack that are fun, but a bit more on the polished "demo" side of things. Maybe instead of some of the more senior members of this forum slamming me for those comments they could help suggest a better way to classify things? I'm open to suggestions. All I know is that the game felt "less polished" than a commercially released game or some of the other homebrews by Pixelboy, Eduardo, or CollectorVision. So how do you categorize it? I didn't take the reference to "amateur" as a negative thing in the review. The term for #3 is difficult. I can see how some would take offence to "Amateur", and yet the negative connetation is more often than not the thing people go to. a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons. a person inexperienced or unskilled in a particular activity: In this case, maybe "Hobbyist," instead of amateur, is a term less open to being taken the wrong way... I do find a real difference between an "amateur" and "professional" results can be more often than not related to how many people involved, from game design to play testing. It is too easy for the one-man-army scenario to result in tunnel vision. I've been guilty of it myself. Playability can suffer because the creator programmed something (say a play mechanic) a certain way, but random play-testers would get frustrated because their natural intuition results in a different way of playing. I'm not saying that is the case with Mr. Turtle, but there is a great benefit to getting other viewpoints and adapting accordingly, taking a good game and making it great. That said, I've played the game for maybe 10 minutes (should actually have more time tonight) and a couple of things to note. There is definitely a sense of learning involved. How to defeat the shark, how to deal with currents, etc. Other than reading the cartoon, I purposefully haven't read the manual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 And being told my opinion doesn't really count because I'm newer to this community didn't really sit well with me either, but perhaps I also interpreted that incorrectly, and for that I apologize. Fine to end there. I did state that a newer member ought to show some deference to others in a community. Your opinion counts, and I would never dispute that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 I did state that a newer member ought to show some deference to others in a community.I do and I have. There is a lot of respect I have for those here who have many more years of knowledge that I do depend on quite a bit. In this particular scenario though, I believe you were suggesting that I defer to someone's judgement who had just told me none of my past professional experience counts but all his does and when I asked him for his suggestion, he told me I should pay him!!! WTF??!! Again, that just didn't sit well with me. I got defensive because I believed in what I wrote. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digress Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Whoa. I go to the store for a few hours and what's been going on here? I'm not the least bit offended by anything anyone wrote. I went to art school and we required to sit in a circle, put up our picture/ project / painting and do a critique. They could be very brutal and often times it could be simply people like pictures of flowers more than .. say conan fighting nazi's as it happened to be my project one day. Constructive criticism doesn`t hurt. I`ll see what needs to be improved the next time around. Hopefully you`ll all find some parts like as well. I think there is a lot there and if you give it a real try and perhaps even get all 5 pearls you might have a bit of fun. I think compared to my first project this is a much better overall project. Compared to what Mr. Turtle. probably would have been... a simple kids game I have no doubt that what i've done is better. I wasn`t trying to make SMB or donkey kong. The game is unapologietically hard. And it gets harder if you try the harder levels still. My 8 year old daughter can complete the easy level though. So I gaurantee you can do it too. Harder levels no. She wouldn`t be able too. So it should keep some people busy for a while even after you get past the easy version. I would be surprised if anyone beat the hard level within the first few tries...without the cheat code anyways. And a big discussion is great. I agree what`s the point of making something if no tries it out or ever sees it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValkerieSilk Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Just received my copy today and it's totally awesome! I love the game and appreciate the amateur review ...ha ha ha ... btw ... does anyone else have trouble sppellling ama ma sure ... amat chure ... aama ... ahh crap... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Just received my copy today and it's totally awesome! I love the game and appreciate the amateur review ...ha ha ha ... btw ... does anyone else have trouble sppellling ama ma sure ... amat chure ... aama ... ahh crap...That was a very amateurish post!!! Edited September 22, 2015 by NIAD 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Tarzilla Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Played for 45 minutes, still haven't read the manual. Great Old School fun, figure out how to move, how to "turtle" and how to overcome the obstacles. I never felt cheated. I died because of me (or my damn controllers ) Lots of enemies beyond the fish and shark shown on the mockup. Nicely varied screens and background tiles. The only complaint I have is the screens sometimes don't flow together, best illustrated by this (please forgive the LCD, my tube tv is at work): [Click to enlarge] Instead, I'm expecting this: [Click to enlarge] Here is a more extreme example: [Click to enlarge] I was standing on ground, now I'm underwater by moving a couple of pixels left? I believe that where a character exits on a click screen game should be the same place they enter on the next one, dependant on direction of travel. Exit the screen going left horizontally at y:50, then your character should be appear on the next screen at y:50 ready for the player to do something, not fall immediately because there is nothing there. This disconnect makes the player hestiant to explore, fearing cheap drops that force you to retrace your steps. Not a problem after you play a bunch of times and learn the maps, but I'm finding it annoying and takes me out the "explore the world" feeling. That observation aside, I am very pleased with the game, I suspect that the original, if it had been released, would have been too easy and kid friendly, this game undoubtedly is more complex that it ever would have been in the 80s. Thanks again for bringing to life that single mockup from the catalog that has been mocking haunting a lot of us for 30 years! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValkerieSilk Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 That was a very amateurish post!!! Oh ya... the amateurish is that group in Pennsylvania that don't have phones and Colecovision... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digress Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 The examples you show and the reason for it is because there was originally only 1 level... the hard level. So the maps when you run into these room mostly match up sensibly on the hard level. I due to almost no room left in the rom space I reused the rooms to make the easy & medium levels but I didn't want to use the exact map layout so there you go. The the whirlpool room (I like to think of it as the drowner) on the hard level does exit on the right into a longer under water cave. I think I did also reuse it at the start of the hard level in the method you mentioned though. Played for 45 minutes, still haven't read the manual. Great Old School fun, figure out how to move, how to "turtle" and how to overcome the obstacles. I never felt cheated. I died because of me (or my damn controllers ) Lots of enemies beyond the fish and shark shown on the mockup. Nicely varied screens and background tiles. The only complaint I have is the screens sometimes don't flow together, best illustrated by this (please forgive the LCD, my tube tv is at work): [Click to enlarge] left-right1.png Instead, I'm expecting this: [Click to enlarge] left-right2.png Here is a more extreme example: [Click to enlarge] left-right3.png I was standing on ground, now I'm underwater by moving a couple of pixels left? I believe that where a character exits on a click screen game should be the same place they enter on the next one, dependant on direction of travel. Exit the screen going left horizontally at y:50, then your character should be appear on the next screen at y:50 ready for the player to do something, not fall immediately because there is nothing there. This disconnect makes the player hestiant to explore, fearing cheap drops that force you to retrace your steps. Not a problem after you play a bunch of times and learn the maps, but I'm finding it annoying and takes me out the "explore the world" feeling. That observation aside, I am very pleased with the game, I suspect that the original, if it had been released, would have been too easy and kid friendly, this game undoubtedly is more complex that it ever would have been in the 80s. Thanks again for bringing to life that single mockup from the catalog that has been mocking haunting a lot of us for 30 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkat5200 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Oh ya... the amateurish is that group in Pennsylvania that don't have phones and Colecovision... They churn their own butter I hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phattyboombatty Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Yeah, but do they make their own bacon? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Playing a bit more today on hard, and yes, it IS as advertised VERY hard! lol But I was at least happy to get past this guy who was challenging me for quite some time. I also see what Gerry was talking about how the levels do seem to flow much better on this level. I'm now determined to finish the game on this level just to prove something to myself. (not sure what, other than I'm a huge dork or something!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digress Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I watched my 17 year old "Gamer" nephew die like 30-40 times in a row by the hands of that very monkey. It's easy though once you figure out the timing. well. easier anyways. BTW we're all huge dorks or we probably wouldn't be here. Playing a bit more today on hard, and yes, it IS as advertised VERY hard! lol But I was at least happy to get past this guy who was challenging me for quite some time. I also see what Gerry was talking about how the levels do seem to flow much better on this level. I'm now determined to finish the game on this level just to prove something to myself. (not sure what, other than I'm a huge dork or something!) Screen Shot 2015-09-22 at 17.29.26.png 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 BTW we're all huge dorks or we probably wouldn't be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 It is pity that most of comment on that thread are about "amateur" word than the game itself. Unfortunately i don't have the game yet. But what ever how it is ,i will find it incredibly better than whatever MSX / SG1000 port out there. To come back on "Amateur" word ... in French... more or less if you translate "Homebrew", it means "Amateur". (the official translation would be "Beer Home Made" in fact ). "Amateur" in that context meaning more "Home Made"... Amateur Porn is far more interesting than Professional Porn... no? ... oups i'm sorry.. i forget that that is an U.S forums... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crapahute Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Watch out Youki, you forgot to put the prude mode on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPR Posted September 23, 2015 Author Share Posted September 23, 2015 Amateur Porn is far more interesting than Professional Porn... no? Now THIS is an analogy I can buy into! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIAD Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Hell Youki, any kind of porn is good. Check that... it has to include at least one woman and more is always better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Hell Youki, any kind of porn is good. Check that... it has to include at least one woman and more is always better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slab0meat Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digress Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I think most will find the game fun and will get some replay value out of it with the 3 levels of difficulty. For me I really like trying to come up with the gameplay from scratch. The more I do the better I get at it. I'll wait til everyone has received it and see how they feel about it. Feel free to leave any feedback or not. I don't think I left any amount of feedback for anyone else's game. Some I really liked some not so much so but often it's the game type wasn't my type of game rather than the execution. It's defiantly homemade and I'm not sure if I'll make anymore but I liked making this project so probably. I don't want to be the Ed Wood of colecovision games either though. It is pity that most of comment on that thread are about "amateur" word than the game itself. Unfortunately i don't have the game yet. But what ever how it is ,i will find it incredibly better than whatever MSX / SG1000 port out there. To come back on "Amateur" word ... in French... more or less if you translate "Homebrew", it means "Amateur". (the official translation would be "Beer Home Made" in fact ). "Amateur" in that context meaning more "Home Made"... Amateur Porn is far more interesting than Professional Porn... no? ... oups i'm sorry.. i forget that that is an U.S forums... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamcon Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I think most will find the game fun and will get some replay value out of it with the 3 levels of difficulty. For me I really like trying to come up with the gameplay from scratch. The more I do the better I get at it. I'll wait til everyone has received it and see how they feel about it. Feel free to leave any feedback or not. I don't think I left any amount of feedback for anyone else's game. Some I really liked some not so much so but often it's the game type wasn't my type of game rather than the execution. It's defiantly homemade and I'm not sure if I'll make anymore but I liked making this project so probably. I don't want to be the Ed Wood of colecovision games either though. I got it and i think it is a great game. Haven't gotten too far into it yet; but a list of cheats is always a good thing to have!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digress Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I'll provide the cheat next week I think. after everyone has gotten their delivery. About %50 delivered so far. Unless you're really stuck you could pm me for it. The intention is not to get you frustrated but the cheat is almost a god mode I used during debugging and It'll allow you to basically have unlimited lives and skip through rooms. So it's good to fast forward basically though parts you've done before but you'd still have to collect the pearls to win. I got it and i think it is a great game. Haven't gotten too far into it yet; but a list of cheats is always a good thing to have!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkat5200 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I think most will find the game fun and will get some replay value out of it with the 3 levels of difficulty. For me I really like trying to come up with the gameplay from scratch. The more I do the better I get at it. I'll wait til everyone has received it and see how they feel about it. Feel free to leave any feedback or not. I don't think I left any amount of feedback for anyone else's game. Some I really liked some not so much so but often it's the game type wasn't my type of game rather than the execution. It's defiantly homemade and I'm not sure if I'll make anymore but I liked making this project so probably. I don't want to be the Ed Wood of colecovision games either though. Screw that...make more games man. I'd love to see someone do Crazy Climber on CV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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