Coleco Donkey Kong on INTV III

[jlew715]

I have the standard black Coleco Donkey Kong cart, and it refuses to play in my System III - it boots right up to a solid green screen, and no amount of resetting, cartridge jiggling, etc. will get the game to start. However, the game plays just fine in my 1980 Mattel unit (in fact, it requires less fiddling than most Mattel carts...). I've also tried plugging it into the Intellivoice on the System III, but the same issue occurs. The System III plays my twenty other Intellivision carts with zero issues, and my Mattel unit plays Donkey Kong without issues.

 

Any idea why? Since I can still play the cart on the Mattel unit, this question is merely to satisfy my curiosity. Were there any minor changes between "System I" and System III that could cause it not to like Coleco carts?

[+JasonlikesINTV]

I always thought they were the same, but I'm far from an expert. Sometimes little variations in the cart slot make a difference, but the Intellivoice should have taken care of that. Does it work with the Intellivoice on the Intellivision I?

[jlew715]

Yup, DK works fine in the Inty I with and without Intellivoice.

[mr_me]

Apparently there was a significant revision to the INTV system possibly in 1988. I wonder if any INTV revision used the Intellivision II EXEC. There is some info at these links.

 

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=144540.0

 

http://console5.com/wiki/INTV_System_3

 

from the above website:

Model #3504. The PCBs of these can vary greatly, resembling either the original Intellivision 2609, or (at least) two unique revisions documented below.
IC Information
INTV 1987 REV A (2609-4379)

U1: CP-1610A
U2: RAM (System): RA-3-9600A
U3: ROM (EXEC): R0-3-9504-021
U4: STIC: AY-3-8900-1A
U5: ROM (Graphics): RO-3-9503-003
U6: Sound Generator, Controller Input: AY-3-8917
U7: SCM2114ALE-4
U8: SCM2114ALE-4
U9: ROM (EXEC): RO-3-9502-011
U10: Color Processor Chip: AY-3-8915
U11: DM7407N
U12A: SCM2114ALE-4
U12B: SCM2114ALE-4
U13: M74LS27P
U14: T74LS125AB1
U15: T74LS125AB1
U16: 74LS00
U17: SN74LS86J

RF Modulator: Biwave, Inc. VM-445

INTV 1988

U1: CPU: CP1610A
U2: 3504-730A WBEXEC
U4: KS74HCTLS174AN
U5: SCH21014E
U6: SCH21014E
U7: SCH21014E
U8: SCH21014E
U9: STIC 1A BV2 8930 AY-3-8930
U10: KS74HCTLS374AN
U11: ROM (Graphics): 0098-0210 GROM
U12: EL6116LP-10
U14: KS74HCTLS257AN
U15: KS74HCTLS257AN
U16: 7407
U17: KS74HCTLS08AN
U18: KS74HCTLS04AN
U19: KS74HCTLS73AN
U20: KS74HCTLS30AN
U21: KS74HCTLS163AN
U22: KS74HCTLS163AN
U23: +5V Regulator: 7805
U34: KS74HCTLS174AN

RF Modulator: Biwave, Inc. VM-445

[mr_me]

So in 1987 GI Electronics, the main source for Intellivision chips, becomes Microchip Technology. In 1988 there's a new INTV system revision and here are a couple of the changes.

 

The Exec ROM, previously on two chips similar to the original Intellivision, is now on a single chip similar to the Intellivision II. Would it have been feasible to put the original Exec on a single chip? I guess someone decided to go with the Intellivision II Exec (assuming that's what it is, explaining Donkey Kong incompatibility).

 

The STIC, sound generator, and colour processor chips are now combined into a single 68-pin package. I'm guessing it would go in the empty square socket in the picture below.

 

This image is sourced from the link in the previous post. I'm assuming it's from an INTV Intellivision. It seems to have the most chips of any Intellivision.

[pimpmaul69]

So in 1987 GI Electronics, the main source for Intellivision chips, becomes Microchip Technology. In 1988 there's a new INTV system revision and here are a couple of the changes.

 

The Exec ROM, previously on two chips similar to the original Intellivision, is now on a single chip similar to the Intellivision II. Would it have been feasible to put the original Exec on a single chip? I guess someone decided to go with the Intellivision II Exec (assuming that's what it is, explaining Donkey Kong incompatibility).

 

The STIC, sound generator, and colour processor chips are now combined into a single 68-pin package. I'm guessing it would go in the empty square socket in the picture below.

 

This image is sourced from the link in the previous post. I'm assuming it's from an INTV Intellivision. It seems to have the most chips of any Intellivision.

i tried googling to find a pic of that board. I cant remember if intv iii's had this board in any of them or just the super pro system.

[mr_me]

i tried googling to find a pic of that board. I cant remember if intv iii's had this board in any of them or just the super pro system.

Well the original poster has an INTV System III and it's not compatible with Donkey Kong, suggesting it has this board or maybe another board with an Intellivision II exec rom. These things were sold into the 1990s so they can't be that rare. Going by the intellivision revolution SN database there seems to be twice as many system iiis as super pro systems.

[mr_me]

Here is a report of Donkey Kong not working with an INTV Super Pro System.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/170690-intellivision-super-pro-system-and-coleco/

 

And here is one reporting that Donkey Kong does not work with an INTV System III (see post seven).

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/188352-not-compatible-with-intellivision-2-systems/?do=findComment&comment=2380645

 

So do all INTV Super Pro Systems have an Intellvision II Exec ROM; and only some INTV System IIIs? If anyone has an INTV Super Pro System working with Coleco Donkey Kong or an INTV System III not working with Coleco Donkey Kong, I'd be interested in hearing about it. Maybe they can be identified by serial number. I think Coleco Mouse Trap and Carnival can also be used for testing. It would be good if the Intellivision Revolution serial number database kept track of Coleco Donkey Kong compatibility.

[+intvsteve]

The two main systems I'm using right now are my old beater INTV System III and a more recently acquired Super Pro System, and both work w/ Coleco Donkey Kong. Haven't opened the Super Pro System to see what kind of board is in it.

 

This is pretty interesting!

[pimpmaul69]

The two main systems I'm using right now are my old beater INTV System III and a more recently acquired Super Pro System, and both work w/ Coleco Donkey Kong. Haven't opened the Super Pro System to see what kind of board is in it.

 

This is pretty interesting!

do you have a newer or older version of donkey kong? Maybe yours works on intv 2 as well.

[+BBWW]

You really don't want to play that game anyhow. I do love the CBS box variants. So many great boxes for such a horrible port!

[mr_me]

Mattel's Word Fund can also be used to test for Intellivision II Exec. You have to get past the the title screen and then the menu screen to see the blank green screen.

[Nebulon]

I had the same problem (green screen , etc...) on my INTV System III and finally managed to get it to work.

 

First, I pulled out the IntelliVoice and then I:

 

- inserted the cartridge all the way

- and pulled the cartridge out until the edge connector was just barely making contact.

 

Not sure why that worked, but it did.

[intvnut]

So in 1987 GI Electronics, the main source for Intellivision chips, becomes Microchip Technology. In 1988 there's a new INTV system revision and here are a couple of the changes.

 

The Exec ROM, previously on two chips similar to the original Intellivision, is now on a single chip similar to the Intellivision II. Would it have been feasible to put the original Exec on a single chip? I guess someone decided to go with the Intellivision II Exec (assuming that's what it is, explaining Donkey Kong incompatibility).

 

The STIC, sound generator, and colour processor chips are now combined into a single 68-pin package. I'm guessing it would go in the empty square socket in the picture below.

 

This image is sourced from the link in the previous post. I'm assuming it's from an INTV Intellivision. It seems to have the most chips of any Intellivision.

 

 

I'd like to know what all's in that missing chip, and if all the address lines are wired on those 2114s. I believe this might be the same board that's in the TutorVision. If so, then if they added any new STIC functionality or extra RAM, it's probably controlled by that upgraded chip. (The low res image here seems to match what you have above.) Also... WBEXEC == WorldBook EXEC?!?

 

I have a SuperPro system I've used for testing, but I never really probed it much or dared to open it up. Unfortunately, it's back in Dallas and I'm in California right now. :-P Otherwise, I'd go check right this minute.

Edited December 6, 2015 by intvnut

[mr_me]

According to this (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/69242-intellivision-tutorvision-found-wgames/), the Tutorvision plays Intellivision games so INTV could have used the same board and Exec in their Super Pro Systems. The same topic linked above mentions that the Tutorvision does play Donkey Kong. So if there are INTV Super Pro Systems that are incompatible with Donkey Kong, it might need a different explanation.

 

According to this (http://www.intellivisionlives.com/media/newsletters/news030715.html), David Warhol wrote a revised EXEC (REX) for the Tutorvision. It might be in the WBEXEC chip, and the INTV 1988 board in that picture might be a Tutorvision. Although 1988 seems a little early for a Tutorvision which was never released.

 

That missing chip is described as "U9: STIC 1A BV2 8930 AY-3-8930" on that website link posted earlier. And IntellivisionLives mentions some changes about the Exec. "This new OS gave programmers more direct control over the system hardware, such as graphics RAM and controller inputs. Most importantly for educational games, it included a writing routine using a half-size proportional font, allowing much more text to appear per screen."

[intvnut]

According to this (http://atariage.com/forums/topic/69242-intellivision-tutorvision-found-wgames/), the Tutorvision plays Intellivision games so INTV could have used the same board and Exec in their Super Pro Systems. The same topic linked above mentions that the Tutorvision does play Donkey Kong. So if there are INTV Super Pro Systems that are incompatible with Donkey Kong, it might need a different explanation.

 

According to this (http://www.intellivisionlives.com/media/newsletters/news030715.html), David Warhol wrote a revised EXEC (REX) for the Tutorvision. It might be in the WBEXEC chip, and the INTV 1988 board in that picture might be a Tutorvision. Although 1988 seems a little early for a Tutorvision which was never released.

 

That missing chip is described as "U9: STIC 1A BV2 8930 AY-3-8930" on that website link posted earlier. And IntellivisionLives mentions some changes about the Exec. "This new OS gave programmers more direct control over the system hardware, such as graphics RAM and controller inputs. Most importantly for educational games, it included a writing routine using a half-size proportional font, allowing much more text to appear per screen."

 

In order for the half-size font to be truly useful, you'd need to expand the GRAM. But, for it to remain compatible with the Intellivision, you'd need a way to switch the expanded GRAM on and off.

 

You can see why I might be excited to probe one of these boards. :-)

[mr_me]

 

In order for the half-size font to be truly useful, you'd need to expand the GRAM. But, for it to remain compatible with the Intellivision, you'd need a way to switch the expanded GRAM on and off.

 

You can see why I might be excited to probe one of these boards. :-)

 

Not exactly. As I don't really know how this stuff works, I'm guessing it can't create graphics unless its defined in GROM/GRAM. What else needs to change? I was trying to find out what "STIC 1A BV2 8930 AY-3-8930" might mean, which is supposedly the square chip missing from the "INTV 1988" board in the picture. AY-3-8930 is an updated sound chip. STIC 1A is the standard Intellivision STIC. An old Mattel Intellivision III document refers to the proposed STIC 1B as "a logical extension of STIC 1 and STIC 1A as used in the Intellivision I master component". I'm not sure what BV2 might mean. It looks like that "INTV 1988" board is a Tutorvision, I'd be surprised if it shows up in an INTV System III or Super Pro System.

[intvnut]

 

Not exactly. As I don't really know how this stuff works, I'm guessing it can't create graphics unless its defined in GROM/GRAM. What else needs to change? I was trying to find out what "STIC 1A BV2 8930 AY-3-8930" might mean, which is supposedly the square chip missing from the "INTV 1988" board in the picture. AY-3-8930 is an updated sound chip. STIC 1A is the standard Intellivision STIC. An old Mattel Intellivision III document refers to the proposed STIC 1B as "a logical extension of STIC 1 and STIC 1A as used in the Intellivision I master component". I'm not sure what BV2 might mean. It looks like that "INTV 1988" board is a Tutorvision, I'd be surprised if it shows up in an INTV System III or Super Pro System.

 

The STIC in the Intellivision 1 and 2 can support up to 256 GRAM cards. Mattel only put enough RAM in the Intellivision 1 to support 64 GRAM cards. The Intellivision II has enough RAM to support 128 GRAM cards, but it's wired so only 64 work. (One of the address pins is tied to ground.) If they had included a little bit of logic, they could have made those additional 64 cards conditionally enabled. I've actually implemented such a hack.

 

They couldn't just enable them always because it would cause compatibility problems with existing games. The two add'l bits in the BACKTAB cards that would specify cards beyond 64 often got used for flags in games, or just have garbage in them.

 

So, it's entirely reasonable that the STIC1A ASIC includes a small amount of additional logic to enable/disable the additional 192 GRAM cards. They'd just need to put enough RAM on the board to support a full 256 cards. It's not a lot of logic to include. If U5 through U8 are 1Kx4 RAMs (I think they are), then there is enough RAM there for 256 GRAM cards.

 

As for whether the Tutorvision boards end up in a SuperPro system: If the board is 100% backward compatible with the original games, then there's a lot of advantage to only building one set of boards for all products. So, it'd be interesting to see if any SuperPro systems have this board in it. When I get back to Dallas, I'll try to remember to check. (I have a busy weekend ahead of me.)