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Edladdin Colecovision Controller Kickstarter now LIVE!


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#426 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:41 PM

 

Just a heads-up...

 

Besides keypad 1 or 3, pressing down on the controller also changes form from robot to aircraft.  

 

Also, when in aircraft mode, pressing in the 180 degree opposite direction the aircraft is flying will change the aircraft form back to robot; whether it's pressing the controller east when flying west, pressing the controller west when flying east, pressing south when flying north or, north when flying south, the transformation will take place. 

 

90 degree intervals prevents the change and maintains the aircraft form (I.E. Heading left and pressing up or down, heading up and pressing left or right, etc.)  However, if the aircraft hits an object: a wall, ceiling, or floor, it will transform the aircraft back to robot.

Okay. Thanks. So, modded Jag, standard and Super Action Controller work without extension cord. Modded Famicom controller without extension cord acts the same as standard controller with extension cord (move right causes form change).



#427 Hastor OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:24 PM

Yeah I noticed other weirdness but the thing I mentioned about walking right was the most apparent and easy to observe, cause the first thing you gotta do is walk right lol.

Also thanks for the update! No rush as long as I get another awesome controller eventually!

Edited by Hastor, Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:25 PM.


#428 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:34 AM

With one exception, this is all generally consistent with the glitches in the other games, where a control movement creates a false keypad button press with a conflicting function.  In SGM Bosconian, one of the diagonals would send you into a "pause" state, rendering the game unplayable.

 

The interesting exception is Defender, where some consoles will drop smart bombs (button 2) every time you fire the cannon (button 1).  So you effectively do not have smart bombs.  :-(



#429 Hastor OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:06 AM

I'll have to more thoroughly test defender. I did find it seemed to work fine after putting the switch, and played for a few minutes. I wasn't watching out for that specific glitch though. I still find it odd that a short copper extension cable would cause a difference with an original controller that works fine, but what do I know lol.



#430 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:40 PM

I'll have to more thoroughly test defender. I did find it seemed to work fine after putting the switch, and played for a few minutes. I wasn't watching out for that specific glitch though. I still find it odd that a short copper extension cable would cause a difference with an original controller that works fine, but what do I know lol.

 

The copper inside the wires inside the cable ARE very small.  The attached photo shows a skinned DB9 inner wire compared to our usual hook-up wire that we buy on the spool.  I've wondered if there is enough resistance in there to throw off the signal timing between controller and console. 

 

FWIW, we DO test every single wire inside every extension cord before install to make sure continuity is good and resistance is low.  If we are cutting an end off to hard wire the cable, we also  confirm that the inner wire colors match the pins on the connector in the order expected.  

 

We learned this the hard way...  A couple years ago we got a case of cords from China where 1/3 of them went in the trash due to conductivity that was too high in random wires here and there.  And sometimes the wire colors switch around...  White wire is usually pin 9, then randomly pin 9 is the blue wire.  Ah, China...

 

AND YET...  With the test with Willie's CV, the all-passive Super CV played fine on the same game and console that gave glitches on a Super Arcade Controller.  Looking forward to Hastor's side-by-side testing.

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#431 Hastor OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:10 PM

There's obviously a lot I don't know about electronic engineering, despite having done a lot of soldering, mods on dozens of systems, etc. Also help my gf circuit bend syths and consoles for audio performances she does. Always seemed like any wire would work as long as it was the same gauge or close, and not 50 feet long. I had no idea that too much conductivity could be a problem. I assumed that the power sent to/from the system was expected to make it through fully intact when possible, but sounds like too clear of a signal caused problems? Or I just need to go to school lol.

Will definitely post results when I get the other stick. Seeing as even passing the real controller through the roller controller causes the issue, my hopes aren't high, but I also don't care a ton. I'm not on a lifetime goal for a Thexder high score or anything. Just got it cause I have memories of playing it as a kid in radio shack on a TRS-80 or similar.

Edited by Hastor, Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:10 PM.


#432 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 10:55 AM

Just thought I would add this post about extension cords altering controller behavior for a Jaguar Pro Controller pad with Missile Command 3D on the Atari Jag, so the extension cord phenomenon appears to not be specific to just a ColecoVision game/controller.

 

http://atariage.com/...s/#entry4066440



#433 Hastor OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 11:07 AM

So weird, and makes me think I don't understand electronics like I thought I did lol. I built a whole mame cabinet, wiring and all, and any decent wires were always fine. Back in the day built an adapter to use PSX controllers over the parallel port, just used whatever radio shack wire I had lying around.

 

I thought extension cables needed to be like 20 feet long at least to notice a difference. Even HDMI spec maximum lengths haven't stopped me from using cables 5x that long without an issue. Old systems are weird!



#434 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:58 AM

So weird, and makes me think I don't understand electronics like I thought I did lol. I built a whole mame cabinet, wiring and all, and any decent wires were always fine. Back in the day built an adapter to use PSX controllers over the parallel port, just used whatever radio shack wire I had lying around.

 

I thought extension cables needed to be like 20 feet long at least to notice a difference. Even HDMI spec maximum lengths haven't stopped me from using cables 5x that long without an issue. Old systems are weird!

 

Your Super CV shipped yesterday.  I am keenly interested to hear how many of these problems show up with that controller versus the SAC Plus!



#435 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:21 AM

A broader update for everyone on the post-Kickstarter waitlist...

 

The good news is that we are officially 50% of the way through fulfilling the waitlist, with 22 out of 44 requests completed.

 

The bad news is that we have had a small hiccup with the Super CVs...  A while back I realized we were running low on the aluminum cases and went to put in a re-order with our supplier.  To my horror, when I contacted them I learned they had closed up and gone out of business after fully 30 years of doing business with those folks.   We have been scrambling to find another vendor that will give us anything like the prices they were giving us on the Super CV case, but so far I am stuck without a new run of cases.  Its probably a clue why the old vendor went out of business, but the new quotes I have received have been more than double the cost of the originals, which effectively kills the viability of the Super CV at the current price point. Hopefully this will be resolved very soon...  I just wrote another manufacturer on Wednesday, so hopefully we will get a more positive response.

 

We still have plenty of Super Arcade Controller Plus cases, but the same vendor produced those cases as well, so the same issue will apply in the near future.

 

Ed

 

PS: If anyone has an inside line with a metal bending and punching shop that is friendly to small businesses, please PM me!



#436 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:49 AM

A broader update for everyone on the post-Kickstarter waitlist...

 

The good news is that we are officially 50% of the way through fulfilling the waitlist, with 22 out of 44 requests completed.

 

The bad news is that we have had a small hiccup with the Super CVs...  A while back I realized we were running low on the aluminum cases and went to put in a re-order with our supplier.  To my horror, when I contacted them I learned they had closed up and gone out of business after fully 30 years of doing business with those folks.   We have been scrambling to find another vendor that will give us anything like the prices they were giving us on the Super CV case, but so far I am stuck without a new run of cases.  Its probably a clue why the old vendor went out of business, but the new quotes I have received have been more than double the cost of the originals, which effectively kills the viability of the Super CV at the current price point. Hopefully this will be resolved very soon...  I just wrote another manufacturer on Wednesday, so hopefully we will get a more positive response.

 

We still have plenty of Super Arcade Controller Plus cases, but the same vendor produced those cases as well, so the same issue will apply in the near future.

 

Ed

 

PS: If anyone has an inside line with a metal bending and punching shop that is friendly to small businesses, please PM me!

I sent you a PM asking if it was too late to change my pre-order request from SuperCV to Super Arcade Controller Plus.



#437 Hastor OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:11 AM

Also sent a PM regarding a possible lead on metal bending, but I don't know enough to ask the questions you would about it.

#438 Hastor OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:14 PM

Just got my Super CV - Thexder behaves the same as when using the Super Arcade Controller or extension cord. Tested with original cartridge.

Part of me wonders what would happen if a cable from a real CV controller was soldered to the board instead. Not gonna try that cause Thexder ain't that important to me when I can at least play it with a regular controller, and the sticks work with the more important games lol.

Edited by Hastor, Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:34 PM.


#439 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:59 PM

With one exception, this is all generally consistent with the glitches in the other games, where a control movement creates a false keypad button press with a conflicting function.  In SGM Bosconian, one of the diagonals would send you into a "pause" state, rendering the game unplayable.

 

The interesting exception is Defender, where some consoles will drop smart bombs (button 2) every time you fire the cannon (button 1).  So you effectively do not have smart bombs.  :-(

 

 

Just got my Super CV - Thexder behaves the same as when using the Super Arcade Controller or extension cord. Tested with original cartridge.

Part of me wonders what would happen if a cable from a real CV controller was soldered to the board instead. Not gonna try that cause Thexder ain't that important to me when I can at least play it with a regular controller, and the sticks work with the more important games lol.

For these troublesome ten and other possible games like Thexder, it makes me wonder what would happen if you tried a 1 foot cord on the Super Arcade Controller rather than the six or eight foot cord, not that this would be long-term practical. It sounds like the small current used to maintain the coded potential pulsing can lose coherence over short distances due to power loss or environmental interference unless the cord is really fancy. Coiled cords are possibly worse than straight cords, due to inductance/magnetic field formation.

 

I wouldn't suggest long-term use of the DB9 computer cables, though, due to the metal fittings on the ends that can cause electrostatic discharge.



#440 Hastor OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:34 AM

I did notice that my Super CV is using a different cable than the SAC I got. At least the end that plugs in the system is a lot smaller. He mentioned before that they used the same cable and just cut one end off them, but this is at least from a different mold, if not a different supplier. I've experienced the same across all extension cables though. I haven't tried a DB9 PC cable and probably won't cause it is just Thexder.

 

Interesting that you mention coiled cables are the worst, since that's what the real CV controllers use (which makes them short and one reason I use extension cables or other controllers), however they work great. So do the Super Action Controllers which aren't coiled (I haven't tested one of those myself yet, but I believe Swami tried and it worked). I also haven't tried the trackball in joystick mode lol, but controllers passed through the trackball have the issue.



#441 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:18 AM

We just started in a new case of cables from China. I noticed the plug was shorter too.

#442 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:21 AM

 

Interesting that you mention coiled cables are the worst, since that's what the real CV controllers use (which makes them short and one reason I use extension cables or other controllers), however they work great.

 

Its one of many competing factors; e.g., the cords seem high quality - thicker than normal to withstand the flexing, which may improve transmission.



#443 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:23 PM

Just got my Super CV - Thexder behaves the same as when using the Super Arcade Controller or extension cord. Tested with original cartridge.

Part of me wonders what would happen if a cable from a real CV controller was soldered to the board instead. Not gonna try that cause Thexder ain't that important to me when I can at least play it with a regular controller, and the sticks work with the more important games lol.

 

The other question that was raised by Willie Culver during the original testing was whether any of the problems are rooted in the controller interface ICs of old/wonky CV consoles.  This was based on a Super Arcade Controller working fine in one of the CVs he had, but delivering errors in the other CV he had.

 

The real test of this idea would be to replace the chips in a flawed unit and see if these problem games began to work properly, which has not been tried.



#444 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 4, 2018 12:29 PM

Good news everyone!   We've just placed an order for 100 Super CV/USB cases from Hammond Mfg, the company that produces the original "off the shelf" sloped case we were buying and modding for Super 78s and Super Twin 78s.  The cost to have the various holes and the ribbon cable slot punched in the stock case is $14.00 above the stock case (a total of $43.57 each at that volume).  That's a lot, but only $5.40 more than the company that went out of business on us.  That increase is small enough that I will swallow it and the price for the Super CV will remain at $159.00.

 

The bad news is that the official delivery time from Hammond is 6-8 weeks, so production of Super CVs and Super USBs is effectively on hold until we take that delivery. We DO have plenty of Super Arcade Controller PLUS cases, so in 3 weeks I'm going to reach out to the next dozen or so folks on the waitlist to see if anyone wants one of those.  That delay is because I'm about to leave on my second big sales trip for the summer and will be out of the country until August 25. 

 

Thanks to everyone that suggested metal bending companies!  I reached out to most of them, and not one replied in any way.  That's life as a small manufacturer...  :-(

 

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  • IMG_1525 (Edited).JPG
  • Super-CV-00017b.JPG





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