Sales numbers

[up2knowgood]

One Million. Its a big number, but the Atari Video Computer System had big sales numbers, and while it doesn't necessarily mean you've made a good and/or popular game, being able to sell a million copies certainly does win you some bragging rights. It is almost like an unspoken rite of passage; "how fast can we sell a million?" Its a question that is common in the modern age. But my question now is, "who managed it?"

 

The Atari Video Computer System had a very long lifespan, arguably longer than any other, and without a doubt, there isn't a single console out now that can hope to have a game released for it more than 10 years after its release like the 2600 did. With that lifespan in mind, I was shocked when I saw a list of games that sold one million or more cartridges. It had only 13 games on it. I found myself amazed, and at the time, my college buddies explained it saying that the 2600 was more of a fad than anything at the time. And between the low demand and the fact that there were just so many games for it, that only a few really popular games had actually managed to sell more than one million cartridges. At first, I accepted this explanation; over time though, that logic seemed more and more flawed to me, until now, when I think its completely absurd and impossible that fewer than 20 games ever sold one million or more copies over the 2600's legendary lifespan. More had to have done it, but I can't independently prove it, as many of the companies that developed games for the 2600 back in the day were short lived; others were large conglomerates with many interests. Either way, documentation was probably lost or destroyed years ago as companies when bust, or locked away and forgotten in corporate vaults as companies sold off their video game interests, or simply shut them down in favor of other ventures. Thus other means of information gathering are needed. So I'm turning to you in the community to help me. My questions are as follows:

 

Is it possible that records were released, and readily available to the public? If not, is it possible to find another way to prove a game was a million seller?

 

Common titles like Frogger surely sold well back then to be so common today, but how well? And what about all the initial release titles? Many were on the shelves for years and years, and surely over that amount of time they sold over a million copies of these games, right? And if they did it, its logical others like Space War that were also sold for many years could have done it too.

 

What about games like Donkey Kong and Q*Bert that were sold across multiple companies, does that still count if they sold a million between all of their alliterations?

 

And what about the SuperCharger? Is is possible that a million SuperCharger units were sold, and by logical extenstion, its pack-in Phaser Patrol?

 

Finally, what about Combat? Should it count as there is little doubt they gave away at least a million copies with consoles.

I've managed to gather some information of questionable quality over the past 2 years, but it still only gives me a grand total of 17 games. I've pictured them here:

 

 

I thank you all in advance for any and all advice and information. I feel we as a community need to disprove the belief that our beloved system managed to garner more than just a handful of hits, and prove it to be the giant we know it to be.

[+jeremiahjt]

I always felt Defender sold better than what is widely believed. I know it is only anecdotal, but I have seen almost as many Defender cartridges as Pac-Man and Asteroids over the years.

[CapitanClassic]

The one thing that will never be matched will be market penetration. The VCS sold about 19 million units by 1982, which represents about 25% of all U.S. households in that year. (actually, PS2 sold 50 million units USA by 2012, 120 million households, 40% all households...although how many of those were repurchases from defective units over 12 years?)

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Second_generation_of_video_games#cite_note-2600_1989-4

http://www.statista.com/statistics/183635/number-of-households-in-the-us/

 

It appears you are using the Wikipedia list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

 

Pac-Man 1982 7 million[39][40] Best-selling home video game up until that time.[41]

Pitfall! 1982 4 million[42][43]

Asteroids 1981 3.8 million[44] Best-selling Atari 2600 game prior to Pac-Man.[44]

Missile Command 1980 2.5 million[45]

Space Invaders 1980 2 million[46] First game to sell a million cartridges.[47]

Demon Attack 1982 2 million[45]

E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial 1982 1.5 million[48]

Adventure 1979 1 million[43]

Atlantis 1982 1 million[42]

Cosmic Ark 1982 1 million[45]

Freeway 1981 1 million[49]

Kaboom! 1981 1 million[50]

Laser Blast 1981 1 million[49]

Megamania 1982 1 million[42]

Raiders of the Lost Ark 1982 1 million[51]

River Raid 1982 1 million[50]

Yars' Revenge 1982 1 million[51]

I think the problem is that no industry media conglomerate was tracking sales back then, so what you would need is some internal documents from Atari, Activision, Imagic, and a couple of the other big players.

 

this list exists and says 27 titles sold 1 million, but it also says Custer's Revenge sold 820k units, which is highly doubtable.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/250871/the-best-selling-atari-2600-games-of-all-time/

Edited January 28, 2016 by CapitanClassic

[up2knowgood]

The one thing that will never be matched will be market penetration. The VCS sold about 19 million units by 1982, which represents about 25% of all U.S. households in that year.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Second_generation_of_video_games#cite_note-2600_1989-4

http://www.statista.com/statistics/183635/number-of-households-in-the-us/

 

It appears you are using the Wikipedia list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

 

I think the problem is that no industry media conglomerate was tracking sales back then, so what you would need is some internal documents from Atari, Activision, Imagic, and a couple of the other big players.

 

this list exists and says 27 titles sold 1 million, but it also says Custer's Revenge sold 820k units, which is highly doubtable.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/250871/the-best-selling-atari-2600-games-of-all-time/

 

Exactly, Wikipedia's list was helpful, and as much as I doubted it, I could also never DISPROVE it, or prove that others sold 1 million. And Custer's Revenge might actually have sold that many, but not in the usual way. I've heard talk that Atari Inc. and Activision both bought large numbers of the game to make sure they never made it to stores. Again though, I can't confirm this, its just what an old employee for KayBee toys said. Hardly enough for a factual study.

 

What's interesting about that newspaper article is that its not talking about the 2600 in the past tense, but as if it was still very much alive, and it was written in 1989!

[up2knowgood]

I always felt Defender sold better than what is widely believed. I know it is only anecdotal, but I have seen almost as many Defender cartridges as Pac-Man and Asteroids over the years.

 

That's exactly what I'm talking about, but Atari was so poor at record keeping, its just sad. Even they didn't really keep track of the number of games they sold!

[high voltage]

Ed English states in 2600 Connection that Frogger sold over a million carts. There's obviously others too.

Edited January 28, 2016 by high voltage

[high voltage]

 

That's exactly what I'm talking about, but Atari was so poor at record keeping, its just sad.

What makes you believe that?

[up2knowgood]

What makes you believe that?

You're right, probably shouldn't say that since I don't have first hand experience, but it is a common gripe I hear from other researchers. Do you have some internal records I could look at for myself? From any of the companies back then.

[high voltage]

I don't think Warner Bros would have let this happen. They are a huge international company.

Edited January 29, 2016 by high voltage

[up2knowgood]

I don't think Warner Bros would have let this happen. They are a huge international company.

 

 

Yeah, but they let the drug use at Atari continue, and the hot tub parties, kegers, and generally did nothing to curtail the free for all environment at Atari, Inc. Unless you can prove other wise, it stands as logical that Atari, Inc.'s record keeping would be just as haphazard.

 

I haven't seen Atari Inc.'s records, but I have seen several scans of Atari Corps.'s internal documents, and if the links still worked, I would link you to them to show you just how little detail they get into when it comes to stock and production numbers.

[Goochman]

One thing was different back then vs today is everyone didnt own the cart. Between my friends and I there were 5 2600's around me. I dont think we had duplicate carts at all. If someone bought Frogger then someone else bought Berzerk. You would go to that persons house to play that game or in rare cases swap carts for a night. There were few carts that more than 1 was purchased among the 2600's around me.

[Bill Loguidice]

One thing was different back then vs today is everyone didnt own the cart. Between my friends and I there were 5 2600's around me. I dont think we had duplicate carts at all. If someone bought Frogger then someone else bought Berzerk. You would go to that persons house to play that game or in rare cases swap carts for a night. There were few carts that more than 1 was purchased among the 2600's around me.

 

I think that's more anecdotal than evidence-based. From my own personal account of what my friends and I bought, we rarely took into account what each other had, although obviously with limited resources at the time we were excited to play things we didn't personally have.

[jhd]

It is very challenging to find solid sales numbers. The contemporary business press provided some broad estimates, which is often the best (if only) data that we have available:

 

 

In 1982, Atari was the clear industry leader with roughly a 65% market share for video game consoles, and an estimated 60% share for cartridges. Sales figures for that year are not available, but in 1981 Atari had made $740 million from the sale of video game hardware and cartridges. While modern gamers tend to (rightly) disparage the 2600 version of Pac-Man, it was noted that game alone could gross $200 million sales in 1982.

The Mattel Intellivision was in solid second-place in the marketplace behind Atari, with an estimated 20% market share for consoles. It originally retailed for up to $250, roughly $100 more than the VCS, but, in August, the manufacturer began offering a $50 rebate to purchasers. At Mattel, video games contributed 24% to sales and 50% to profits.

 

http://www.retrogamingtimes.com/magazine/rtm96/201.html

[up2knowgood]

It is very challenging to find solid sales numbers.

 

 

AMEN! That's why I'm just trying to get a broad idea of those games that probably did sell one million or more cartridges, because it really is impossible to get any exact numbers on anything in this era of video game history. Honestly, I think we're lucky to know the names of as many of the game programmers as we do.

[up2knowgood]

One thing was different back then vs today is everyone didnt own the cart. Between my friends and I there were 5 2600's around me. I dont think we had duplicate carts at all. If someone bought Frogger then someone else bought Berzerk. You would go to that persons house to play that game or in rare cases swap carts for a night. There were few carts that more than 1 was purchased among the 2600's around me.

 

 

 

I think that's more anecdotal than evidence-based. From my own personal account of what my friends and I bought, we rarely took into account what each other had, although obviously with limited resources at the time we were excited to play things we didn't personally have.

 

I think both are good points, but wouldn't have much impact on sales. Trading and some coordination probably did happen then as now, but really popular games would still have good sales because of this same word of mouth system. You know, something like, 'Little Jimmy seems to really enjoy that "Frogger" game Mike brought to the sleepover, I think I'll get it for his birthday so he won't have to borrow it.'

[high voltage]

In the music industry there's a huge difference between 'claimed' sales and 'actual' sales, obviously that's the same for video games, be it Atari Activision or Nintendo.

 

For example, the record company ships 100,000 CDs to the shop, for them it's sold, even if the CD is gathering dust in the shop.

As for shop sales and counting (for Billboard or such), sales staff were paid to provide wrong (inflated) information.

Edited February 10, 2016 by high voltage

[Turbo-Torch]

Games like Ms. Pac-Man, Berzerk, Defender, Frogger, Donkey Kong, Moon Patrol, Centipede, Joust...basically any hot arcade title had to have sold well into the millions.

And what about the early years when there were plenty of consoles but only a few dozen games to choose from? Who didn't have titles like Circus Atari, Outlaw, Surround, Warlords, Breakout, Night Driver or common sports titles like Home Run, Basketball, Football and Bowling? These were titles that sold very early on and then continued selling well into the early 80s because they were fun and had a dirt cheap price of $10 to $15 per game by then.

 

There were many unique original games like Haunted House, Star Raiders and Yar's Revenge which are dirt common...in the mid 90s, you couldn't buy a bag of 2600 games at a thrift store without having several of those titles mixed in.

 

I'm also sure TV show and movie tie-ins such as Raiders of the Lost Ark, Ghostbusters, Tron, Starwars, etc. sold quite well.

 

For Activision, I see Freeway and Laser Blast are on the list. Those two made it and yet Tennis, Boxing, Barnstorming, Dragster and Kaboom didn't make it?

 

A rarity like the SuperCharger, no way. I bought mine at Camelot Music in the mall which was the only place in my area that sold it. Eventually Toys R Us picked it up too and then right after the crash hit. I'd never seen it sold anywhere else.

 

When I was a kid and one of us received a great game, we all wanted our own copy and saved up for it. It was also a great way of knowing which games we didn't want. Not buying a certain title because a friend already had it didn't exist in our circle.

[up2knowgood]

Instead of becoming clearer, this whole mess has gotten muddier. I was hoping to find something to point me in the right direction, like a map of some sales records. Instead, I got an ink blot! I've gotten every popular title for the 2600 ever made, plus movie tie ins. It seems I've underestimated the popularity 2600. (FORGIVE ME!) It seems as if every game with a rarity of less than 5 on the Atari Age Scale sold more than a million copies. Which means that several games released in the late 80s sold more than a million cartridges, even including the last game released in North America, "Secret Quest" released in 1989, supposedly in response to "The Legend of Zelda" on the NES, sold over a million cartridges because it has a rarity of 4!

 

I'm calling it, there are more games that sold a million or more cartridges that can be easily listed by a single person. If only the companies back then didn't play their cards so close to their chests. As far as I can tell, no records were ever released, and so finding exact sales for even one game to get a comparative litmus test going is impossible.