Now with the NX on the horizon, what are your plans for your 3DS?

[Unbeliever]

I just got my very first 3DS two weeks ago, so I plan to play it, obviously! There are so many games I missed out on in the last few years that I think I am set for the near future.

Even after I had this last year, I still hadn't really touched many of the games I wanted to play. So with this new 3DS XL, I should be able to focus in on some of the titles I initially missed out on, and "go out on a limb" to try a few I wouldn't think to add to my library in the first place. This should be a fun run with the system this time around.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I'll be real disappointed if the NX gets rid of carts, but eh, if they put out some good games I'll have to get one.

 

My 3DS won't be going anywhere. Even if the next handheld is fully backwards compatible (with 3DS, DSi eShop, and DS carts), that would just make it all the easier to keep my 3DS running homebrew.

 

Yes, losing carts/discs will suck, but digital is the future. But seems like the NX may have a card slot, and potentially would allow for larger games than PS4 or Xbone as storage prices drop.

 

Also it seems for the longest time, ever since the compact disc's inception, discs could hold a buttload more data content than carts. Factor of ten, N64 64Mb versus PS1 650Mb. But now who's laughing? A 64Gb micro SD card holds more data in a much more compact space than a 50Gb dual layer BluRay. And a 128Gb microSD card still holds more data than the hypothetical multi-layer 4k BluRay at 100Gb.

 

And they can't just add extra layers with optical media before multiple internal reflections of each semi-reflective layer severely obfuscates the data. Once you get to three layers, an internal reflection of the first layer off the second would appear at the same focal length as the third. This creates problems with the laser. The third layer would need some different offset compared to the first and second, preferably with a larger gap between the first and second layer. Four layers or more compounds the issue. And you can't squeeze data pits closer together without using shorter wavelength light to focus onto smaller spaces.

 

I had this idea as a teen that the almighty cartridge would once again overtake discs as a storage medium, and people called me a moron, but that appears to be exactly the case now with flash overtaking optical media in terms of storage space. To bad for me, I never predicted digital download as a medium would someday overtake both.

 

 

 

It didn't help that it took them a few years to release a killer app for it (still waiting on Zelda), and most people thought the WiiU was just a new controller for the Wii.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if Zelda-U has not completely shifted development to the NX. Especially with Twilight Princess now out, they aren't going to release two Zelda games back to back.

[Bill Loguidice]

I'm beginning to wonder if Zelda-U has not completely shifted development to the NX. Especially with Twilight Princess now out, they aren't going to release two Zelda games back to back.

 

Most evidence is pointing to the same thing that happened with the last Zelda on the Gamecube that got a simultaneous release on the Wii, i.e., it will likely be released around the same time for both Wii U and NX. That may very well be the last AAA title the Wii U sees.

[+swlovinist]

Both my kids have a 2DS, and my son has a Wii U. As the NX gets closer to release, I probably will be picking up more games for both. I have been completely satisfied with both systems and have appreciated the console exclusives that have been released for both.

[Unbeliever]

I'm not sure why I never got a Wii U. I mean, I think I could have earlier when money wasn't so tight, but I stuck with the Wii and passed on the Wii U. I actually miss owning a Wii.....it was a great system with tons of games (Super Mario Galaxy comes first and foremost to mind), but stupid me got rid of it.

 

However, the 3DS is a solid system and I also have been wonderfully pleased with the games that are on it. I'm not sure what the immediate future holds for it, such as what games will come out for it next, but I don't believe this portable is done yet with some great games releasing in the immediate future.

[Asaki]

But now who's laughing? A 64Gb micro SD card holds more data in a much more compact space than a 50Gb dual layer BluRay. And a 128Gb microSD card still holds more data than the hypothetical multi-layer 4k BluRay at 100Gb.

Yeah, but look at the cost.

 

I don't know the specifics of 3DS carts, though. No idea what kind of memory they use, or how big the games are =)

 

I'm beginning to wonder if Zelda-U has not completely shifted development to the NX. Especially with Twilight Princess now out, they aren't going to release two Zelda games back to back.

They already promised that it was still going to be on the WiiU. Can you imagine the fan backlash if they cancelled it?

 

I agree with Bill, though, and wouldn't be surprised if they pulled another Twilight Princess.

 

I'm not sure why I never got a Wii U.

I probably never would've got a WiiU if I hadn't seen one at a thrift store.

 

And by "never" I mean not until Zelda comes out.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Asaki

[Bilnick]

Yes, losing carts/discs will suck, but digital is the future. But seems like the NX may have a card slot, and potentially would allow for larger games than PS4 or Xbone as storage prices drop.

 

Also it seems for the longest time, ever since the compact disc's inception, discs could hold a buttload more data content than carts. Factor of ten, N64 64Mb versus PS1 650Mb. But now who's laughing? A 64Gb micro SD card holds more data in a much more compact space than a 50Gb dual layer BluRay. And a 128Gb microSD card still holds more data than the hypothetical multi-layer 4k BluRay at 100Gb.

 

And they can't just add extra layers with optical media before multiple internal reflections of each semi-reflective layer severely obfuscates the data. Once you get to three layers, an internal reflection of the first layer off the second would appear at the same focal length as the third. This creates problems with the laser. The third layer would need some different offset compared to the first and second, preferably with a larger gap between the first and second layer. Four layers or more compounds the issue. And you can't squeeze data pits closer together without using shorter wavelength light to focus onto smaller spaces.

 

I had this idea as a teen that the almighty cartridge would once again overtake discs as a storage medium, and people called me a moron, but that appears to be exactly the case now with flash overtaking optical media in terms of storage space. To bad for me, I never predicted digital download as a medium would someday overtake both.

 

 

How much data a BlueRay disc can hold vs a SD card doesn't really matter. Both the PS4 and XB1 play their game off of their hard drives. If a game is 100GB, it can just be shipped on two Bluerays, which I am guessing is cheaper to manufacture than just about any size SD card.

 

But like you said downloading is the future and for me, present. My son still prefers to buy games for PS4 or XB1 on disc, but for games that I think I want to play with him I usually get the digital download. We can play the digital version of a game on both of our XB1s at once, cant do that with a disc.

[Atariboy]

If there's still physical releases, optical media is indeed not threatened. The cost comparison isn't even close to being able to dethrone it for the amount of space necessary in today's era of 25GB - 50GB HD games.

 

So if NX is a console and still will see physical releases, I expect to see the Wii U's drive essentially be reused with its Blu-Ray derivative format. The most change I'd expect to see is the introduction of dual layered 50GB discs, since I believe every Wii U release to date has been on a single layer 25GB disc.

 

What I rather expect is that NX is a separate console and handheld like has long been speculated on, with scalable software that at its core is the same for both forms of the system. Handheld NX releases will perhaps be capped at 480p, maybe 30 fps instead of 60 with downgraded assets like textures that match its resolution, etc. Think of it as a PC title with everything in the settings toned down to maximize performance.

 

Since it's difficult to see optical media returning for a handheld and other storage means are prohibitively expensive for the storage capacity we're talking about, I expect the NX handheld to rely on digital distribution with at most a cart slot for DS/3DS backwards compatibility for perhaps the 1st iteration of the hardware until the focus is squarely on NX software with few looking back. So it will have generous internal memory that's perhaps expandable by the user to accommodate further NX downloads.

 

The console version of a game will be run with everything set to high, will have 1080p textures, etc. And here, we'll still see retail releases on optical discs as a secondary distribution medium for a variety of reasons like customers that are more willing to accept all-digital for mobile considerations than they are for hardware to be connected to their television.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Atariboy

[Andromeda Stardust]

Yeah, but look at the cost.

 

I don't know the specifics of 3DS carts, though. No idea what kind of memory they use, or how big the games are =)

 

 

I forgot the sizes of most 3DS games, but you can guess the size of the card by the size of the eShop download. I believe eShop downloads are limited to 3.99Gb due to FAT32 filesystem limitations.

 

A 64Gb Class 10 or higher SD card is expensive now, but in a couple years will be $10 retail; less than that wholesale. When the cost drops down to $5 or so wholesale for ROM chips with bigger space than is possible with optical media, it will become tempting for companies to switch back to cartridge media, likely in the form of cards. Slap it on a proprietay card plus reader, and some sort of security chip to handshake with the console before it can access the data on card to prevent piracy.

 

I don't see much over 100Gb storage space on optical media becoming a reality unless we have a radical departure of technology. You can't stack BluRays like hard drive platters and you can't make the groove spacing tighter than it already is without shorter wavelength lasers. UV lasers would probably deteriorate either themselves or the media with time, and if germicidal wavelenths are used, additional shielding would be needed on players. There's tons more room for growth with flash chips.

[Atariboy]

Yes, but the cost of a pressed 50GB Blu-Ray disc is a few cents on the dollar.

 

Not only is that space likely more than adequate to accommodate most software for at least the next console generation and much cheaper, it's also much more reliable and durable. Heck, I don't even think that there's much of an advantage if any for read times when comparing a top of the line SD card to Blu-Ray discs so you're likely still facing mandatory installations to an internal hard drive to minimize loading.

 

The only advantage it holds is for handheld gaming where the form factor, physical durability, and the battery saving traits of it actually offer something beneficial for the premium manufacturing price. But with smartphones, iPads, and such having trained the masses and quickly gotten them accustomed to digital distribution on portable devices, it's quite possible that Nintendo has decided for the 3DS successor that now's the time to leave physical releases behind.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Atariboy

[Andromeda Stardust]

If there's still physical releases, optical media is indeed not threatened. The cost comparison isn't even close to being able to dethrone it for the amount of space necessary in today's era of 25GB - 50GB HD games.

 

So if NX is a console and still will see physical releases, I expect to see the Wii U's drive essentially be reused with its Blu-Ray derivative format. The most change I'd expect to see is the introduction of dual layered 50GB discs, since I believe every Wii U release to date has been on a single layer 25GB disc.

 

What I rather expect is that NX is a separate console and handheld like has long been speculated on, with scalable software that at its core is the same for both forms of the system. Handheld NX releases will perhaps be capped at 480p, maybe 30 fps instead of 60 with downgraded assets like textures that match its resolution, etc. Think of it as a PC title with everything in the settings toned down to maximize performance.

 

Since it's difficult to see optical media returning for a handheld and other storage means are prohibitively expensive for the storage capacity we're talking about, I expect the NX handheld to rely on digital distribution with at most a cart slot for DS/3DS backwards compatibility for perhaps the 1st iteration of the hardware until the focus is squarely on NX software with few looking back. So it will have generous internal memory that's perhaps expandable by the user to accommodate further NX downloads.

 

The console version of a game will be run with everything set to high, will have 1080p textures, etc. And here, we'll still see retail releases on optical discs as a secondary distribution medium for a variety of reasons like customers that are more willing to accept all-digital for mobile considerations than they are for hardware to be connected to their television.

It's been pretty much confirmed the NX will not use a disc drive but will have some sort of media slot, proprietary or not. There will be no backwards compatability with Wii-U because PowerPC architecture is long dead. The NX will most likely be ARM powered if it is indeed a console/portable hybrid. ARM could possibly allow b/c with the 2DS. If they go the DS route, I envision adding an extra tab to the NX cards so they cannot be inserted into a DS or 3DS. I am thinking it may be a slimer, lighter Gamepad-like tablet device with the CPU brains inside it, and a docking station for charging and external TV hookups.

 

Pro controllers or additional NX devices could be used for local multiplayer. When docked, NX will output to TV and run full power CPU with HD 1080p visuals. On the go it have 480p SD visuals and reduced CPU. They may have multiple SKUs, for instance a tablet sized version for home use that comes bundled with a TV docking station, and a phone sized version for ultimate portability. A unified NNID account system would allow a gamer or household to own multiple devices on a single account and sync game content and save data between devices.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Yes, but the cost of a pressed 50GB Blu-Ray disc is a few cents on the dollar.

 

You are forgetting that a cart slot is a hella lot cheaper to implement than a disc drive. The disc drives add at least $30 to the base price of a console, probably more. The NX is being billed as a hybrid portable / home console and as such all games will be compatible with both SKUs. You can't have a 5" disc drive sticking from a portable.

 

Besides that mandatory install bullcrap is an MS/Sony thing because read speed is limited by how fast you can spin the disc. Flash / ROM reads much faster than a disc drive so there's no speed benefit to internal install with NX. SSD/flash technology is already well ahead of HDD access speeds. But they had damn well have an assload of Flash storage inside this time around, with future expansion via SDXC built in.

[Atariboy]

It's been pretty much confirmed the NX will not use a disc drive but will have some sort of media slot, proprietary or not.

 

Not really

 

Just a patent and patents don't mean much for what we're talking about. The only rumor from a very credible source about the NX so far is the one stating that Zelda is cross-platform and will be a NX launch title, since we've already seen portions of his list be confirmed including some very specific information like the codename of one project that wasn't previously known.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Not really

 

Just a patent and patents don't mean much for what we're talking about. The only rumor from a very credible source about the NX so far is the one stating that Zelda is cross-platform and will be a NX launch title, since we've already seen portions of his list be confirmed including some very specific information like the codename of one project that wasn't previously known.

Given that the NX will be a hybrid console, means there is no room for a disc drive. It will use a card slot as an option for physical games and (hopefully) potential 2DS b/c. Nintendo is not going to throw b&m retail partners like Gamestop, Bestbuy, Walmart, Target, et al under a bus by not distributing physical games, nor will they do likewise for people in rural areas or otherwise with slow / unreliable internet service.

[Unbeliever]

Not sure if anyone saw the Nintendo Direct from yesterday, but...most impressive. What I was hoping for is coming true: SNES games on my virtual console for the new 3DS. AND Bravely Second is coming in April...perhaps I should pre order the limited edition and really get into it. Bravely Default was a great game (and needs to be picked up again) and by the looks of it, Second will be awesome as well.

 

A new Kirby game is also on the horizon, plus some good games for the Wii U as well. I was impressed with the presentation, as the 3DS is looking really good right now for gaming. What did anyone else out there think of the Nintendo Direct presentation yesterday? See anything you're aiming for?

[Andromeda Stardust]

Not sure if anyone saw the Nintendo Direct from yesterday, but...most impressive. What I was hoping for is coming true: SNES games on my virtual console for the new 3DS. AND Bravely Second is coming in April...perhaps I should pre order the limited edition and really get into it. Bravely Default was a great game (and needs to be picked up again) and by the looks of it, Second will be awesome as well.

 

A new Kirby game is also on the horizon, plus some good games for the Wii U as well. I was impressed with the presentation, as the 3DS is looking really good right now for gaming. What did anyone else out there think of the Nintendo Direct presentation yesterday? See anything you're aiming for?

Thanks for the tip. With my obsessively reading the Chameleon thread, I have missed this.

[Asaki]

It's too bad they couldn't be bothered to optimize their SNES emulator to work on the earlier 3DSes. I guess that's what homebrew is for =|

[Atariboy]

Given that the NX will be a hybrid console, means there is no room for a disc drive. It will use a card slot as an option for physical games and (hopefully) potential 2DS b/c. Nintendo is not going to throw b&m retail partners like Gamestop, Bestbuy, Walmart, Target, et al under a bus by not distributing physical games, nor will they do likewise for people in rural areas or otherwise with slow / unreliable internet service.

 

You're assuming a ton.

 

We don't know what to believe with the rumors, we don't know if it will be a console or handheld or both in some form or another, we don't know what media it may use if any, etc. We essentially know nothing about the NX except that it exists, that it's a dedicated videogame system of some form, and that we're slated to learn more about it sometime in 2016.

 

That's as much as we have for verifiable facts supported by statements from Nintendo, rather than the often contradictory rumormill from a host of "insiders" that regularly peddle information, often rather unconvincingly, in the months before a new hardware unveil. It all almost as a rule ends up having little resemblance to reality.

 

And you can forget your media idea. For the capacity needed for modern HD game development that will make even the Wii U's 25GB disc cramped and all but call for 50 gigs if they want to be 3rd party friendly, there's no way that it can be anything but a pressed optical disc. Your idea would be as expensive, unnecessary, and publisher unfriendly as Nintendo's decision in 1996 to stick with cartridges was. They may as well kill the NX off right now and burn a billion dollars if they intend to utilize an expensive form of media for game distribution.

 

And in my proposed scenario that I personally think stands a good chance of happening, retailers wouldn't be left out. But instead of what perhaps is roughly a 50/50 split where Nintendo's priorities are between the retail model and digital distribution with today's 3DS/Wii U generation, physical would now be the secondary distribution form.

 

You'd still find Nintendo hardware in stores and you'd still find physical console games on their shelves, but handheld software sales would strictly be download codes that they'd stock and sell for those that don't care to purchase direct off the eShop.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Atariboy

[Mockduck]

I am probably one of a minority of folks who never owned a DS, so I picked up a 3DS XL to not only play the handful of 3DS games that were interesting to me, but also to finally delve into and collect good DS games. I expect this system will remain a retro collection player for some time.

[Asaki]

You'd still find Nintendo hardware in stores and you'd still find physical console games on their shelves, but handheld software sales would strictly be download codes that they'd stock and sell for those that don't care to purchase direct off the eShop.

Yeah, GameStop is already like that, they have a bunch of download code cards on the wall. They even have them for Steam games. Super weird.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

At this point my plans for the 3DS are to wait until the regular sized New 3DS model is released in black in North America, then pick one up and start collecting the good games for the system. I did buy a 2DS last week since they've gotten so darn cheap at this point, but I ended up returning it the next day for a refund since I was really displeased by poor visual quality when playing original DS games on it. So now I'm just waiting for the black colored New 3DS to come stateside, since the visual quality for original DS games will be much better on that system.

 

I don't mind buying into a system at the end of it's life cycle because that means that I'll already have a good idea of all the games that can he had for it, and with most people setting their sights on the NX it will be fairly cheap to collect for the 3DS as retailers start liquidating their stock of last gen games. Once the NX rolls out I think that will be the best time to start collecting for the 3DS.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Yeah, GameStop is already like that, they have a bunch of download code cards on the wall. They even have them for Steam games. Super weird.

Yeah, but imagine 30 years from now some gamer has a stack of sealed and unopened retail download codes. They'd be about as worthless as those 90s era AOL diskettes and CDs are today.

[Andromeda Stardust]

At this point my plans for the 3DS are to wait until the regular sized New 3DS model is released in black in North America, then pick one up and start collecting the good games for the system. I did buy a 2DS last week since they've gotten so darn cheap at this point, but I ended up returning it the next day for a refund since I was really displeased by poor visual quality when playing original DS games on it. So now I'm just waiting for the black colored New 3DS to come stateside, since the visual quality for original DS games will be much better on that system.

 

I don't mind buying into a system at the end of it's life cycle because that means that I'll already have a good idea of all the games that can he had for it, and with most people setting their sights on the NX it will be fairly cheap to collect for the 3DS as retailers start liquidating their stock of last gen games. Once the NX rolls out I think that will be the best time to start collecting for the 3DS.

PRO tip: DS games are 256x192 (both screens). 3DS games are 400x240 (upper screen) and 320x240 (lower screen). Hold down start+select when starting a DS game from the menu to play it in it's native resolution. I have large man hands so the increased size of the 3DSxL and N3DSxL are perfect for me. In fact the DS games played at native resolution on the xL models are slightly larger than the original DS phat screen, and razor sharp. But I agree, they look blurry and distorted when up rezzed up to 240p. You can also play Game Boy VC games at native resolution using Start + Select, and you even get a cool looking DMG or GBC mockup to fill the screen borders. I just wish the 3DS supported the Super Game Boy borders on games designed for the peripheral.

[Asaki]

Yeah, but imagine 30 years from now some gamer has a stack of sealed and unopened retail download codes.

I'm the guy that prefers physical to digital, remember?

 

I'm not saying I will like it, I'm just saying I can imagine it, since we're already heading that way.

 

So now I'm just waiting for the black colored New 3DS to come stateside, since the visual quality for original DS games will be much better on that system.

Visual quality will not be better at all. The screen size on the New 3DS is slightly larger than the 2DS, but it still runs DS games in scaled mode by default (hold start or select while booting them). Screen resolution is technically the same.

 

Hold down start+select when starting a DS game from the menu to play it in it's native resolution.

Actually, you only have to hold down start or select, you don't have to hold both of them.

 

I wish there was an option to toggle it though, half the time I forget about it and then have to quit my game and load it back up >_<

[Atariboy]

I almost corrected you, and then realized that he said 2DS and wasn't talking about waiting for a regular sized New 3DS instead of the regular New 3DS XL.

 

The smaller the screen is, the better it hides the visual defects so I would expect DS titles to look better on non-XL models. But like you said, he'll actually be playing on a slightly larger screen by going with a regular New 3DS instead of a 2DS.

 

Definitely no visual advantages there when it comes to hiding the ill effects on DS titles caused by upscaling.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Atariboy