Atari 1040STfm in ICU awaiting your cure

[Agussy]

MY 1040 STfm used to work perfectly for years, but now I've got a problem: When I turn it on, I see the desktop (no icons) with limited drop-down choices to pick from, (the keyboard and Mouse do work), but the Floppy Drive is producing a very steady "We will rock you" Clicking sound and will Not load a Disc, and the lights are a very low red color - I put two other F-Drives in that I know works, and in those Drives, there were No clicking sounds and although the Green lights were solidly On, it still would not load a Disc - I am using Master Tracks Pro's Sequencer Program and all my Songs are being held hostage! Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!

[galax]

First thing I'd check would be the ST's power supply- test the voltages under load (with the ST running). Any PSU capacitors bulging?

[Agussy]

Thanks = I haven't got that far regarding Capacitors - I know a little about electronics (more of a mechanical person) and I do have a digital multi-meter, but lacking testing knowledge - Do I measure a/c volts alone or do ohms come in to the equation, and what would be their ranges? If it were to be the PS, do you recommend a parts Company?

[Wally1]

try Best Electronics

 

hes great

[Agussy]

Thanks Wallhy1 for the recommendation

[Agussy]

Hi galax -, I took apart my Atari 1040 STfm and all components "look" (save for dust) great - All resistors still have their color codes intact and no capacitors bulging. etc. - I am assuming the module Where you plug in the power cord IS the power supply and even it looks great for the same reasons - it would probably be worth replacing if cost not too high so, Thank you for your diagnosis - Looks like even back then that computers first thing to replace is the PS!

*************************

I did have luck installing Steem and have played around with it, but I still can't figure how to load my Master Tracks Pro floppy to it yet - as mentioned before, when I insert the MTP floppy and press the A drive, it asks if I want to Format it, and fearing it will erase the program on said disc, I always say No to formatting (b/c it Will erase it, right??) My floppy Drive Does work - Do you know How to load the A drive's MTP into Steem? (I can't make Steem See it) I am assuming Steem works similar to say the way CloneDrive (by Elaborbytes?) works? Thanks again!

[Agussy]

Hi galax, I meant to also ask you if you have a simple way for me to test the power supply (while I have it out) - I have a digital multi-meter and assume I would only use the A/C terminals for testing, but should the output read 120V and/or is there a continuity measurement to do, etc. and as mentioned the PS "looks" in great shape - Thank you

[Agussy]

galax = Sorry for all the reading! If I knew how to delete my prior post, I would've - I just came across a thread you posted where You asked about testing a PS and you confirmed the DC volt amounts as follows::
pins 1 and 2 are 5v
pins 3, 4, 5 are ground
pin 6 is 12 v

 

So, it looks like I plug in the A/C cord to Measure the 6 Pins that I see which are: Red, Red, Black, Black, Black and Blue - Is the first red pin #1 and Blue #6 in that order? And I assume I would put the black lead on (any?) of the Black Pins to measure all 3 DC Voltages or does pin 1 on go with 1st black and pin 2 on 2nd, etc.? (Although, I guess Ground is Ground so, I could use any black order?) And I agree with you; $70 IS a bit steep for a PS! Now, I'm thinking of hooking up 3 Individual External PS's that output 5v and 12v to power the whole she-bang! Wonder if that would work? Thanks again!

[galax]

You should see 5v DC between pins 1 and 3, and 12v Dc between pins 1 and 6, and 0v between 1/2/3, and between 3/4/5. Measure with the computer running, and don't touch the PSU as there will be 110v in there. Obviously be careful not to short curcuit anything as well.

 

It's not definitely the PSU, but it's the first thing to rule out because it's easy to test, easy to fix, they go wrong quite often with age, and a bad PSU can cause all sorts of weird effects.

 

Your Master tracks pro floppy probably isn't PC formatted, so you can't read it from Windows. Windows thinks it is an unformatted disk and offers to format it as a blank disk. You should be able to rip an image of it using Floimg, or download the copy of Master tracks pro that I linked to.

[Agussy]

galax = Looks like I plug in the DC leads to Measure the 6 female Pins that I see, which are from left to right: Red, Red, Black, Black, Black and Blue, but is the first left red pin #1 and Blue #6 in that order? As an example, you said: 12v Dc between pins 1 and 6 - If what I guess is correct, then this mean measuring the far left red pin And far right Blue pin to show 12v DC? The "easy to fix" puzzles me, unless you mean buying a new PSU?

[galax]

Recapping or replacing the PSU is one of the easiest of fixes- tracking down a bad IC somewhere on the motherboard, finding a replacement, and desoldering it, would be a lot more tricky for example.

 

Red=5v, black=0v, blue=12v sounds right to me; I can't remember for sure as it's pretty easy to work it out when you have the PSU there. If you see -7v for example you have the +ve probe on 5v and the -ve on 12v.

[tjlazer]

My 1040STf is also having the "no disk icons on desktop" issue when first powered on. I have to let it is on for a minute and reset and it starts to work.

[atarifanboi]

Aside from taking a long hard look at the PSU and making sure the +5v and +12v rails are delivering what they should, I'd also be tempted to dig a little deeper, and take off the RF shielding and look for any chips located in sockets.

 

When you find those chips, give them a gentle push down to reseat them in the sockets. I know there used to be a technique called the 'Atari Drop', whereby you pick up your machine and drop it from about 4 inches onto a flat surface to reseat the chips in sockets. I have never tried it and would not recommend it!!

 

I have replaced the capacitors and rectifier (Replacements provided by Exxos) on my SR98 PSU (UK version) and it took less than an hour to remove the PSU, desolder the old components, and fit the new ones. Alternatively, have you looked for a replacement from Best, or even eBay if soldering is not your thing?

 

You can see my upgraded PSU here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/250837-what-could-my-next-ste-hardware-project-be/page-2

 

Also, here's a close up of the power outputs on mine. The ground rail (3 pins) are all connected on the underside of the PCB, so you should always see 0v when testing between these.

 

Although this is a UK PSU, I would expect to see something similar on US PSU's.

 

 

As has been said before, these need testing with the ST switched on, so be very careful of the mains input side.

 

Test from any ground to +5v and the same to +12v. Don't test between +5v and +12v, it's not going to be that useful to you. Your multimeter should be set to DC volts and appropriate voltage range if you're not using an autoranging meter.

 

I don't know what the expected results should be, but I'm sure the internet will

 

Note, the image above shows my UK PSU during it's capacitor upgrade, so there is an empty spot in the middle where a capacitor was, but this did make for a clearer image.

Edited April 14, 2016 by atarifanboi

[Agussy]

Thanks Atarifanboi for taking the time to dumb-it-down b/c I needed that and the picture w/arrows really helps! I'm going to power it up with the A/C, expose the underside of the PS Board and D/C test the leads from there, all the while staying the heck away from everywhere else on said board! - galax confirmed the correct DC voltage amounts for me (Thanks to him, too) - I've heard of the "drop-box" method, too which, I agree with you = Naw - The (abundant) chips underneath the metal shield that I see seem to be all soldered down, b/c I first started there without any movements, but I'll go back again and look for any socket-ables - I appreciate all the nice ppl on this site!

[atarifanboi]

Thanks Atarifanboi for taking the time to dumb-it-down b/c I needed that and the picture w/arrows really helps! I'm going to power it up with the A/C, expose the underside of the PS Board and D/C test the leads from there, all the while staying the heck away from everywhere else on said board! - galax confirmed the correct DC voltage amounts for me (Thanks to him, too) - I've heard of the "drop-box" method, too which, I agree with you = Naw - The (abundant) chips underneath the metal shield that I see seem to be all soldered down, b/c I first started there without any movements, but I'll go back again and look for any socket-ables - I appreciate all the nice ppl on this site!

You're welcome, just repaying all the help I've had here

 

BTW, the power pick up points in the image are on top of the board, just find the matching ones on yours, there should be no need to expose the underside of the PSU board, which will probably make it a lot more difficult. Just get a good torch and a magnifying glass and ID the equivalent on your PSU board prior to power on.

 

The pick up points are located here (see the red circle) on mine and can be accessed easily with just the metal shield that covers the PSU removed and nothing else:

 

 

Hopefully your multimeter has reasonably long, insulated probes to help you stay away!!

 

There is one final plan I wonder if you've considered? Buy another 1040 off eBay? It probably won't be that expensive, and if all your stuff is on floppy, then there is no issue transferring to a new machine.

 

Another option could be to use FloIMG, found here: http://atari.8bitchip.info/floimgd.php

 

You can run it on a PC with a FDD drive (It must be internal, USB drives are not suitable for this process. I used an old laptop personally)

 

Using this tool you could image the ST disks to files on PC. This has a 2 fold effect, in that it backs up your old floppy disks, so you can recreate if needs be later on, and it also provides you with an image you can use in an ST emulator, such as Hatari or Steem.

Edited April 15, 2016 by atarifanboi

[Agussy]

Atarifanboi - I am in mid-Steem (oops) of trying to accomplish that route currently - And, if I understand, the Image route converts my PC into an Atari essentially, and I would have no need for the 1040ST machine except for using the Discs made on it, right? - I had posted a (long-arse) question regarding this (below) to my Atari-bud galax, that if you don't mind, I will post here for you - I wrote:

 

galax - Regarding your MTPro "program emulator" great suggestion, I am having difficulty getting that going, as follows:

I was able to install Steem and it launches, but trying to load an image goes nowhere so, to show you what Steem said:

Steem SSE 3.8.1 is Installed

Machine: STE (Hope that means STfm, too? It is changeable to STF - STE was the default)

TOS: v2.06 (aka emutos-512k-0.9.5/etos512k from the Steem site) <--- Is this the correct TOS to use?

Monitor: Colour (Low/Med Resolution)

ST CPU speed: 8 Megahertz

Active Drives: A, B C {where is B?)

drive speed: Fast

And using the Floimg (aka "8.bitchip") I saved a MTPro .ST file (aka Image?) to my desktop, but I can't get Steem to open and run it - Do I need a different TOS?

 

If I understand this, I use Floimg to make a MTPro Disc .ST image (which I did and saw it saved as an "ST" image file) and then Steem is used to Run that ST Image (exactly like my Atari did), is this correct? So, rather than obtain my MTPro original Floppy program to make Images (which I can make an image of), I would use the MTP Image software link you gave me to obtain those, to run it, right?

Looks like my main problem is the Steem is not working, although I did get a "Successful Install" message from Steem = It looks like to me, using Floimg, I can make a Image from my Floppy AND from the MTPro download, but neither will load in to the Steem - When Drop the ST image in Steem and press the yellow (or red?) button it does not much of anything, then I press Pause/Break to release my mouse and close Steem out - I do have an internal Floppy and using WIndows 7 64 on my Inspiron 530 - Also, I didn't want to buy another 1040ST b/c if I can make my PC perform exactly like the Atari did by using an Image along with Midi to USB cables I ordered, then I'd have a stronger, bigger Dell Computer instead - Thanks again!

[galax]

Some programs don't work well with later machines and TOS versions, so I'd use start off with Steem configured as your machine was: STF (means pre-STE I think), TOS 1.04. I would use high resolution if your program supports it, medium is quite ugly.

 

The ST drives A and B in Steem aren't your PC's floppy drives. You put disk images in Steem's 'drives' by using the disk manager (drive icon on right of the main toolbar). You can also configure a PC folder to use as a hard disk here, which saves messing with disk images and is handy for getting files in and out of the emulator.

 

So open up the drive manager, navigate to your MTPro.ST, drag and drop it on drive A, and tell Steem to reboot the ST (right click on the red reset button on the toolbar I think, then the yellow play arrow to start the machine).

 

If you upload your MTPro.ST I or someone else can tell you if it is working.

[Agussy]

I will search out and replace (or re assign?) the TOS 1.04 (I think it's at Steem site?) - I saw a place in Steem to "park" TOS's so, probably I'll see it and "install?" it from in there

 

I wondered about the STE only b/c I have a 1040STFM and there was an STF option - Since it was defaulted to STE, I will leave as is

 

I do see in Steem's drive mgr. the MTPro.ST Icon and I remember drag/droping on the Left Drive (A?) and I press the red button and then the yellow and it seemed it was trying to load for just a second, but then stalled so, I pressed Pause to get my mouse back

 

By high resolution, do you mean my PC's monitor resolution i.e., 1440 x 900?

 

I tried to attach a PDF showing my chips (which all looks great), but I could not figure out how to do that so, me uploading an Image here puts me in the same boat - where/how do I do this?

 

I should have done two posts per question: 1st being "Repair Atari" and 2nd being "Convert my PC to Atari" (emulator) - Thanks again!

[atarifanboi]

If you're having issues with Steem, then try Hatari instead, it's pretty good. No reason you can't have both.

 

Like has been said previously, the Atari (Steem or Hatari) drives do not map to the PC drives, they are 'virtual' so you'll need to mount the images within your chosen emulator. For Steem this will be the Disk Manager.

 

Your software 'should' work with whatever your chosen emulated Atari is, you can probably find pretty much any TOS image online these days, it's just a question of learning how to drive the emulator.

.

If you're comfortable uploading your disk image, I will try it out on my real 1040STF and Steem to see if I can make it work.

 

It is also possible you have a broken image, so also worth trying to image again.

Edited April 16, 2016 by atarifanboi

[Agussy]

Thanks Atarifanboi - I'd be happy to upload the Image except, I cannot figure out How to upload anything in this forum - The image I would send would be the Master Tracks Pro Program itself of an Image (supposedly, but the ext does show as .ST) I made from my original Disk in Floppy A on my PC using the program obtained at: http://atari.8bitchip.info/floimgd.php

[atarifanboi]

Thanks Atarifanboi - I'd be happy to upload the Image except, I cannot figure out How to upload anything in this forum - The image I would send would be the Master Tracks Pro Program itself of an Image (supposedly, but the ext does show as .ST) I made from my original Disk in Floppy A on my PC using the program obtained at: http://atari.8bitchip.info/floimgd.php

I think you can use the 'My Media' option in the editor to upload to this forum, it's to the right of the smiley in the editor.

[Agussy]

btw - Back to the Power Supply - I finally tested it using the Black Middle Ground for all 3 tests and here is what I got:

Red Left to Black Middle = 4.95v DC (each Red should be 5v, but isn't that close enough?)

2nd Red = 4.95v and

Blue to Black Middle = 10.73v = Ah Ha! it should be 12v!

That must be the problem so, my next question is: In lieu of buying a power supply, couldn't I just "splice-in" an External 12v Power supply (I have many on hand) directly to the Cut/Separated Blue and a Black (middle, again?) Pins and plug in the AC cord (now missing the Blue powering) along with the 12v adapter now powering that Blue Pin and use them both together to make the Machine work again?

Also, do you know how long any capacitor voltages take to drain in order to handle without getting shocked? I ramble-on pretty well, huh? Thanks again

[Agussy]

This Atariage.com site itself says:

"Look below the box where you type your text. You should see the word Attachments and a Browse button below that. (When replying to a thread, you'll need to click on the More Reply Options button first.)"

I see an "Options" button, but no help there and I have never seen an Attachments button anywhere....Maybe I need to be a member longer in order to do this??

[atarifanboi]

I'll be honest, I wouldn't recommend what you're suggesting doing with the power supplies, you run the risk of giving yourself a dangerous or even fatal electric shock, and/or damaging the mainboard if you get it wrong.

 

If you are even the slightest bit unsure, and you do seem to be, I'd hand over to an expert fixer if you are looking to do anything beyond replace the power supply.

 

It sounds like the PSU may have a faulty 12v line. PSU's are going on eBay UK for around £10, which equates to about £15 dollars, or if you are unsure about getting one from eBay, speak to Best Electronics, they are based in the US (You are in the US?), they can provide replacements, though you're looking about $60-$75.

 

I'm afraid there is also another option re the disk, and that it has failed, meaning your image has failed too. If you want to email me the image to try out, you can send it to atarifanboi@deep-core.co.uk and I'll test on Steem and create an atari disk from it and try it in my STF and STE.

 

With regards to capacitor discharge time, I don't know I'm afarid, and the PSU I recently upgraded had been sitting in a drawer as a spare for at least a year. I don't think it would take that long, but again, that's one for the electronics experts, not me.

[RodLightning]

I was just thinking the same thing. A friend of mine once got a nasty shock by accidentally touching the exposed heat sinks of a 1040 STfm with just a brush of the wrist. You are probably better off building a cable to connect a standard PC desktop power supply to the ST motherboard in order to test it and the floppy drive.

 

Good luck and remember to check, re-check, and check again that the correct wires are going to the board before connecting and turning on power.