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Is anyone else concerned about copies?


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#26 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Tue May 10, 2016 3:44 PM

Ohhh one of those guys..

 

He is selling the Godzilla home brew without permission. He is also selling Lilys Woods which is a hack that I did of Pitfall with Nukeys help. Not much I can do about selling the hack, but he is using all my original artwork to make boxes and manual as well as the label.



#27 frankodragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 10, 2016 3:48 PM

Filed a counterfeit report on the Godzilla cart.  This pirate uses way too many exclamation points.  Then he shows off his collection in the last pic in each of his listings.  Anyone here live near Spencerville, Indiana?



#28 Atari8bitCarts OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 10, 2016 4:07 PM

I guess that depends on how hardcore you are. I consider myself a relatively "hardcore" collector but I acknowledge that there are limits to how hardcore I can be. For games/items past those limits, I'm perfectly happy with repros. I just think they should have some mark or something to distinguish them from originals.
 


I don't think there's anything to support the notion that repros devalue originals, but I agree wholeheartedly that VGA are bullshit artists.

 

I agree. I don't mind homebrews, that's great stuff. But I don't like copies, meaning trying to be exact. The label should have a marking, the box should have a marking, etc. These are people trying to make the copy look as close as they can to fool someone. If not today, then tomorrow when someone thinks they have a legit version.

That's all.



#29 atari181 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 10, 2016 4:45 PM

I really have no problem with repros being sold ad a repro. It is a problem when they are someone else's property (Godzilla). It has become more and more difficult to determine repro's lately (especially boxes) and I happen to agree that there should be some kind of disclaimer that they are reproductions on them.

#30 Atari_Bill OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 10, 2016 5:03 PM

I personally hate repros and refuse to add them to my collection. That means I'll never own much of the really tough stuff but in my mind if you have the repro, you don't really own it anyway. I think all the repro boxes and games that are being produced seriously detriments the integrity of the hobby. Some repros are easy to spot, but others are nearly impossible; especially if the seller takes pics from certain angles. This is just setting people up to be taken advantage of in my opinion.

#31 BassGuitari OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 10, 2016 5:04 PM

My preference on repros is that they look as close as possible to the original, but contain some fine print in the copyright info that states it's a reproduction cart or label, or a small mark or logo or something that wouldn't be on an original. Just my $0.02.



#32 roadrunner OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 10, 2016 5:05 PM

I bought games from that seller (Angie and Ted) years ago 
They used to start their games at 99 cents or 4.99
somewhere along the way he turned into a douchebag
He has at least 2 accounts the other is angie19325



#33 neotokeo2001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 10, 2016 9:10 PM

I sent the seller a message about Godzilla and Lillys Woods. It seems to be the typical Hozer attitude.

 

It has come to my attention that you are selling unauthorized versions of a few of my games. Godzilla is an original game developed for NEO Games for the Atari 2600. The game has not been released commercially due to the Godzilla copyrights but has been released as a rom/bin for NON-COMMERCIAL use only. I see that you have sold several copies already so it is obvious these are being made to order. I also see Lilys Woods which is my hack of Pitfall. I don't own any rights to that game but you are using my original artwork on the label, manual and box. It is obvious that you are a knowledgeable Atari 2600 collector so you know what these are and where they come from. I have to ask that you stop selling Godzilla immediately as you are violating the terms of use of it's release. Lilys Woods I would not have a problem with if you had just asked if you could use the assets included with the game. I will work with you to resolve these issues without escalating it. Scott Dayton (NEO Games)
 
The reply:
Hi, do you also, own the rights or have promission from Jello pudding or fat albert to produce the fat albert game or the many other reproductions I have seen you list over the years. My Godzilla home brew has many changes too it and is not the original released game!! As you can see I also made my own box and manual so it is kind of like all the games you and atariage copy , hack and then call your own!! it is my own self made Godzilla game
Thanks again

#34 madhatter667 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 10, 2016 9:52 PM

Wow. Seems dude = douche.
I have zero problems with repro games. It is going to otherwise be stupid rare, a proto, or unreleased in my region. This also goes for translated games. However, clearly stating that a cart is a repro is all it takes to be kosher. I don't collect for $$$ so I don't care whether a repro brings down a super rare value. I think the cost of old games has gone up too much in recent times anyway.

#35 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 4:00 AM

Here is his response:

 
New message from: atari4you (81Blue Star)
Hi, was Atari Age 's not also a fake that is why they are no longer selling it!! This is a hnice home brew cart. just like theres was!! You must work for atari age!! If you do not stop harrassing me i will never buy from you guys again & as you can see bye my last picture i have spent thousands of dollars at your store!! I have hundreds of Atari agae games as shown in picture!! ANd some of the games i have bought from them are pirated like Zippy (sonic the Hedge Hog) Right!!!! Why do you guys think you are the only people that can sell home brews, hacks, reproduction, etc. you are not atari gods!! They went out of buissnesss in the middle 90's!! Get a life!!
Ted

 

Sounds like Al has contacted him before and the he knows very well, that what he is doing is completely wrong. And then defending doing something wrong by accusing other are doing wrong too, is by far the lamest excuse.

 

I checked his list and found none of my games. Else I would file a report immediately.



#36 Atari8bitCarts OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 6:12 AM

Wow. Seems dude = douche.
I have zero problems with repro games. It is going to otherwise be stupid rare, a proto, or unreleased in my region. This also goes for translated games. However, clearly stating that a cart is a repro is all it takes to be kosher. I don't collect for $$$ so I don't care whether a repro brings down a super rare value. I think the cost of old games has gone up too much in recent times anyway.

 

of course you don't care, you're not a collector. For us that actually are and have the super rare games it does matter, and mark my word 5-10 years from now, will matter a lot.

This is no different if you collect stamps, etc. You enjoy them and it's your love for what you collect that makes it fun. But when people start copying stamps, then finding that super rare stamp years ago, making a great find, and hunt, is now not so great. It's fun to own original items that are now hard to find. This isn't an investment for most, but having a killer collection is half the fun.

 

I know hallmark'y after I read it too :)



#37 AlwaysOnPlanetPatrol OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 7:04 AM

Reading this thread with interest, mostly because I'm looking for a few games and Espial is high on my list.  His listing came up in my daily searches.

 

So the guy is somewhat misleading folks; I don't want to get high and mighty here, but with the Espial game he's just got his terminology wrong; home brew versus reproduction.  He's wrong on the former (I doubt he could program himself out of a wet paper bag) or is doing trademark/copyright infringement on the latter.  For the copyright, the only entity that can file a compaint would be Tigervision or whoever owns the copyright nowadays.  For hacked/homebrew editions, someone would have to prove it that they replicated it.

 

To be fair, he does not state that this is an original box and cart.  I don't have an issue filing a complaint when someone is selling a knock-off as an original, but he's not doing that? 

 

On the shady rating I'd give him a 3/10.  I think he's found a niche for folks who want a physical cartridge of a hacked version or a look-alike.  I personally would never buy it or recommend it. 

 

He sold a "Steriod Pitfall" for less than $70: http://www.ebay.com/...w-/201565929305:? Got a positive review from the buyer.



#38 BassGuitari OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 8:00 AM

of course you don't care, you're not a collector.


Dial it back, bud.

Copies and repros don't make it any less fun to collect videogames. They haven't for me, at least. It's just now you have to weed out the repros and fakes if you're looking for the rare and valuable items.

Nor do repros make your rare, valuable originals less rare or worth less. An original copy of, say, Espial is only devalued if a whole bunch of other original Espials turn up. Somebody looking for an original Espial isn't going to pay less for one because there are much cheaper repros around, because they aren't the same thing. That person won't give two shits about any repro.

For those of us that don't want to spend hundreds on an Atari game but still want a cartridge, repros are good enough. Like them or not, they serve a purpose for a lot of us.



#39 Thomas Jentzsch OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 8:03 AM

It would be nice if collectors would stop when it comes to pirated homebrews.

 

Or am I asking for too much here? :ponder:



#40 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 8:45 AM

Guy is a donkey ditch. A mule mine. Camel canyon. Hippo pit. Rhino ravine. Horse hallow. Llama lagoon. Cow cave. Ox Alcove. I think you get my drift... :mad:

 

Another concern is his blatant misusage of the term "homebrew" will hurt sales of legit homebrews. If enough auctions with "homebrew" in the title get flagged, eBay will start automatically pulling them. Just like "reproduction" as a keyword is a sure red flag for take down notices.......



#41 frankodragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 8:55 AM

This guy seems to have an attitude of an 8-year-old troll.  He doesn't even know how to spell "receive" so he must be highly uneducated.



#42 atari181 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 10:05 AM

I would have to think he is using the term "homebrew" to try to avoid using "reproduction" which is a keyword together your listing pulled on Ebay.

#43 hizzy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 10:34 AM

Is he reproducing homebrews that can be bought on AA? Reproducing a homebrew that is still in print is not cool. Selling reproductions of originals also stinks.



#44 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 10:37 AM

Is he reproducing homebrews that can be bought on AA? Reproducing a homebrew that is still in print is not cool. Selling reproductions of originals also stinks.

 

Yes, there was a copy of Wall Jump Ninja that he listed (which is a newer homebrew available in the store), as well as Princess Rescue.  Reproducing a homebrew you don't have permission to make and sell cartridges of is not cool, regardless of whether it's out of print or not. 

 

 ..Al



#45 hizzy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 10:40 AM

 

Reproducing a homebrew you don't have permission to make and sell cartridges of is not cool, regardless of whether it's out of print or not. 

 

Very true!


Edited by hizzy, Wed May 11, 2016 10:41 AM.


#46 KaeruYojimbo ONLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 10:55 AM

 

I sent the seller a message about Godzilla and Lillys Woods. It seems to be the typical Hozer attitude.

 

It has come to my attention that you are selling unauthorized versions of a few of my games. Godzilla is an original game developed for NEO Games for the Atari 2600. The game has not been released commercially due to the Godzilla copyrights but has been released as a rom/bin for NON-COMMERCIAL use only. I see that you have sold several copies already so it is obvious these are being made to order. I also see Lilys Woods which is my hack of Pitfall. I don't own any rights to that game but you are using my original artwork on the label, manual and box. It is obvious that you are a knowledgeable Atari 2600 collector so you know what these are and where they come from. I have to ask that you stop selling Godzilla immediately as you are violating the terms of use of it's release. Lilys Woods I would not have a problem with if you had just asked if you could use the assets included with the game. I will work with you to resolve these issues without escalating it. Scott Dayton (NEO Games)
 
The reply:
Hi, do you also, own the rights or have promission from Jello pudding or fat albert to produce the fat albert game or the many other reproductions I have seen you list over the years. My Godzilla home brew has many changes too it and is not the original released game!! As you can see I also made my own box and manual so it is kind of like all the games you and atariage copy , hack and then call your own!! it is my own self made Godzilla game
Thanks again

 

 

I wonder what "changes" he made to Godzilla?

 

The way he uses "copy" it almost sounds like he sees homebrew games for sale and thinks all there is to it is grabbing the ROM off the internet and making a cart and doesn't understand that guys like Al and Neo and others who sell homebrews and hacks actually work with the author.

 

But he's probably just a douchebag.



#47 Propane13 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 11:15 AM

One of my games is on his site as well:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201573424442

 

I haven't taken a royalty for Pressure Gauge in years.  But, it's weird.

 

Historically, there were 3 ways it was sold:

The first was that I made a limited run of 25ish carts myself.  The artwork was handmade.  The artwork on this "repro" matches that run, however my signature is missing, and the hand-drawn aspect has been cleaned up.

The second way it was sold was via PackRatVG, but their artwork was entirely different.

I thought the third way it was sold was through atariage, but I can't find it in the store.  Maybe my memory is fuzzy on that.

 

So, I'm not sure if he just took the original artwork and modified it, or if someone else did, and he just duplicated it.

Regardless, someone did some work here.  I'm wondering where it came from.

 

What concerns me is that it was claimed that this was bought at a video game convention.  As I mentioned, I am not familiar with this artwork at all, but it is possible it was made by someone for sale when this game was available royalty-free.  Not sure what I should do here-- he's making money on my product, but as I said, I haven't taken a royalty in years.  I'm not sure how to say his claims are invalid.  And, I am not sure I can really tell him "hey, you don't have my permission", since the ROM is available and the game isn't making a royalty anyway.  I doubt he'll make any money; nobody really cares about this game anymore.

 

While I disagree with a lot of this behavior, I have to admit that there is a market for certain things being available on a cart.

I don't have Princess Rescue, but I would love to have one put on cart, just so I can show it off to people who stop by my house.  It's a great conversation piece ("oh yeah, I have Super Mario").  Having the ability to buy an unofficial version of this game just to satisfy that need would be nice.  But, I understand this hurts homebrewers, so I haven't done this.  I also want to pay the author.  Since I can't do that, I'm limited to spending $150 whenever it pops up on eBay.  Sadly, for this title, there is definitely a market.  I have not yet figured out the right answer here.

 

-John



#48 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 11:31 AM

One of my games is on his site as well:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201573424442
 
I haven't taken a royalty for Pressure Gauge in years.  But, it's weird.
 
Historically, there were 3 ways it was sold:
The first was that I made a limited run of 25ish carts myself.  The artwork was handmade.  The artwork on this "repro" matches that run, however my signature is missing, and the hand-drawn aspect has been cleaned up.
The second way it was sold was via PackRatVG, but their artwork was entirely different.
I thought the third way it was sold was through atariage, but I can't find it in the store.  Maybe my memory is fuzzy on that.


Pressure Gauge has never been sold in the AtariAge Store. I believe I did approach you about it years ago.
 

What concerns me is that it was claimed that this was bought at a video game convention.  As I mentioned, I am not familiar with this artwork at all, but it is possible it was made by someone for sale when this game was available royalty-free.  Not sure what I should do here-- he's making money on my product, but as I said, I haven't taken a royalty in years.  I'm not sure how to say his claims are invalid.  And, I am not sure I can really tell him "hey, you don't have my permission", since the ROM is available and the game isn't making a royalty anyway.  I doubt he'll make any money; nobody really cares about this game anymore.


It doesn't matter if the ROM is available and you're not getting a royalty. You still own the copyright on the game, and you can control how it is distributed and sold. It's possible he only has this one copy that he "bought at a video game convention", and he told me that he bought Wall Jump Ninja at a convention in Ohio. If this is the case, I know who is making many of the games he is selling (there are actually two parties, but I'm talking about the guy in Ohio). Given he's listed some titles more than once (after they have been sold), I suspect he's going to continue replenishing any games that sell.

..Al

#49 KaeruYojimbo ONLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 11:46 AM

It's possible he only has this one copy that he "bought at a video game convention", and he told me that he bought Wall Jump Ninja at a convention in Ohio. If this is the case, I know who is making many of the games he is selling (there are actually two parties, but I'm talking about the guy in Ohio).

 

If this is the case, that he's reselling games be bought from another dealer, it would go a long way towards explaining his attitude. I'd be pretty angry if I was accused of pirating games if I thought what I was selling was legit. Again, that's if his story can be believed.

 

It still reveals a lot of ignorance on his part though. Whether it's ignorance of the origin of the games he's selling or, as I said earlier, ignorance of the way Al actually works with authors to publish games and doesn't just grab whatever ROMs of the internet to sell without the author's knowledge or permission.


Edited by KaeruYojimbo, Wed May 11, 2016 11:47 AM.


#50 McCallister OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 11, 2016 12:28 PM

 I doubt he'll make any money; nobody really cares about this game anymore.

 

-John

Actually, I am interested in this game and have been for years  :)  I just don't like to buy knock offs or pirated games and I've only occasionally seen the original ones you sold on the secondary game market.

 

Pressure Gauge sounds like a fun game and I'd love to be able to get a copy. If you can get it in the AA store, that would be excellent. 






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