Nintendo, What Went Wrong

[JamesD]

The problem with the NX is that it risks being a replacement for the gameboy but not the Wii U

[bretthorror]

The problem with the NX is that it risks being a replacement for the gameboy but not the Wii U

 

 

It's ultimately the likely goal. More than anything, they are likely focused on not stretching themselves too thin. People are happy with Nintendo's games, it's just coming at the price of being exclusively on their handheld and their home console gets neglected. The simple minds are the ones saying Nintendo has to try to compete with Sony and Microsoft head on, everyone with their heads on straight know this would be a lousy tactic. Nintendo as a whole is doing a fine job with games on their portable and home combined, it's when the home people don't get the benefits of those great portable games that problems hit. And Sony has done the exact same shit basically with the Vita and PS3/4, so what Nintendo is doing is exactly what Sony tried to do and failed.

 

The NX isn't as out there of a concept as many think, especially since Sony has already kind of done it and the fact is that games should be cross-plat these days anyways. The only difference is the NX won't be as powerful as the PS4 Neo... but, the DS wasn't as powerful as the PSP and the Wii wasn't as powerful as the PS3. It still works out when the software is there. The software will finally be top notch again with the NX with the portable teams and home teams churning out games together in large amounts or I will be the first to say that it's time to take Nintendo out behind the barn. But they'd have to literally release no games for the NX to fail for Nintendo fans. That same sentiment certainly wasn't there with the Wii U.

 

Nintendo fucks up a lot, but they're not stupid. They'd be much smarter to try to chip away at what Sony/Microsoft gamers like and bring a few over at a time rather than betting the farm roulette style for no reason.

[Tickled_Pink]

I just feel that the NX is going to give them more problems. Nobody really wants to ditch the DS. There are a ton of games for it and it's still more than capable of holding its own for those who want a 'Nintendo experience'. It's certainly sturdier than a mobile phone.

 

I don't really see how it's going to fit in. If what we've heard is true, it will be Nintendo's last console because it will flop badly. I just hope for Nintendo's sake that it offers something a bit more. Although the Xbone and PS4 are much bigger devices, they are at least capable of being a media centre at the centre of a family home. A cartridge-based console will not - unless the docking station contains a blu-ray, in which case it might stand a chance.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Really disc drives are cumbersome and expensive. Modern high speed serial flash can stream data faster than most optical drives so tha's great for loading times. The cost savings of not having a disc drive are offset somewhat by the screen controller, but with the new Nvidia ARM CPU architecture it will be faster and cheaper than the Wii-U's dated PowerPC processor. Also no moving parts means very high long term reliability, provided they use reliable solid state flash with long term data retention.

[Atariboy]

I'm sure that this will offer some basic media functionality like Netflix/Hulu/YouTube apps.

 

Nintendo isn't going to lose anything by not supporting DVD and Blu-Ray. If they managed it successfully 10-15 years ago, they really have no issues there now that so many people are focused on digital streaming. What I feel that Nintendo needs to focus on is videogaming, not failing in an attempt to be the focus of someone's electronic world on the go and in front of their television.

 

Nothing wrong with a system that's only turned on when one wants to sit down and play a videogame. In fact, I spoke on the last page about how they need to get to the core of where they went wrong and draw fans back in on the basis of what they provide that their big competitors lack. I'd argue that a system focused on playing games is one way to do that, rather than diluting their attempt by being a media centerpiece connected to your HDTV like Sony and Microsoft have tried to do, by doubling as a mobile smartphone on the go, etc.

 

Such attempts in 2017 are just as doomed to failure as trying to outdo Microsoft and Sony in raw horsepower as they prepare to launch revisions. Got to fix the basics before anything else. The more frills, the less attention they've been paying to the fundamentals.

 

Get back on track and maybe they can get fancy in 5 years and try to broaden their ambitions.

 

People are happy with Nintendo's games, it's just coming at the price of being exclusively on their handheld and their home console gets neglected. The simple minds are the ones saying Nintendo has to try to compete with Sony and Microsoft head on, everyone with their heads on straight know this would be a lousy tactic. Nintendo as a whole is doing a fine job with games on their portable and home combined, it's when the home people don't get the benefits of those great portable games that problems hit. And Sony has done the exact same shit basically with the Vita and PS3/4, so what Nintendo is doing is exactly what Sony tried to do and failed.

 

Their handheld business isn't all that healthy, either. This concept is just as much to preserve and bolster that faltering line as it is to boost Nintendo's fortunes in the console marketplace after the Wii U fiasco.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Atariboy

[cybercylon]

Wonder how long the VC will remain up and running for the vWii and Wii U sides? I would imagine they will keep that running at least until the NX is out.

[Atariboy]

I don't see them being in any rush to close shop. As long as it pays for itself, it likely will stick around.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Nintendo needs to seriously revamp their VC service and step up their game. NX Cross buy (or at least extreme discount) for any titles previously purchased on a 3DS or Wii-U linked to current NNID. Nintendo does have records of all your VC purchases. To say otherwise would be lying. Also have a full library on day one with plenty of classics, not another slow drip feed of previously released titles like we have seen with Wii-U.

 

A beefy NX launch lineup of VC classics with cross buy for previously purchased 3DS/Wii-U content, would go a long way...

[Atariboy]

Don't stop at Wii U and 3DS, since it should cover the Wii Shop as well (At least for those Wii downloads present on Wii U hardware linked to your account).

 

If the Wii U eShop knows what titles you've purchased off the Wii Shop as demonstrated by the upgrade system already in place, there's no reason why the NX shouldn't be able to see that you've purchased Super Mario World on the Wii Shop and should be granted a discounted upgrade fee on the NX shop when SMW is made available.

 

And don't erase VC content this time on the parent console like happens when you transfer your Wii data to your Wii U. Rather, it should act as it does on the Wii U when you upgrade a VC title, with you still retaining access to the Wii version in BC mode.

 

I shouldn't have to give up something like Wave Race 64 on my Wii U just because I want to pay the upgrade fee to also have it present on my NX. There's no booming black market in selling last-gen Nintendo systems loaded with VC software, so the VC sales Nintendo would lose are minuscule by allowing that content to remain on our Wii U's and 3DS's after the upgrade process.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Atariboy

[DracIsBack]

The tablet was utilized badly.

 

Yeah - being honest, I've yet to see a 'killer app' for it.

 

The original Wii sold a bajillion units because they had a killer app in every box that showed off its differentiator remote (Wii Sports) and they followed up with other good titles that also used the remote.

 

I'm still scratching my head in puzzlement for the tablet controller being anything other than a simple gimmick

 

 

Nintendo themselves is admitting this, along with the lack of killer apps early on.

 

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/07/reggie_fils-aime_on_why_the_wii_u_was_misunderstood

 

I do like that they "spin" less than other companies.

 

When we launched Wii U, we missed the opportunity to be clear on the concept, to show off its capabilities and what the users could do. And that hurt us. Sales were also hurt, during the beginning of its lifespan, by the lack of games. And although we've sold 13 million consoles, against 20 and 40 million from the competition (Microsoft and Sony, respectively), what pleases us the most is that Wii U has the games with the best reviews and ratings from fans.

Edited August 2, 2016 by DracIsBack

[Keatah]

I'm still scratching my head in puzzlement for the tablet controller being anything other than a simple gimmick.

 

I'd say it was more a product of the times. Everybody was getting in on the touchscreen craze. And to come to market without one would be a death sentence.

 

Didn't matter if it was useful, it just had to be there.

[DracIsBack]

 

I'd say it was more a product of the times. Everybody was getting in on the touchscreen craze. And to come to market without one would be a death sentence.

 

Didn't matter if it was useful, it just had to be there.

 

What point is having a touch screen if you can't really do anything with it that makes a buyer, go "Wow - I'm winning to contend with this thing having less power than the competition because it gives me something cool that I can't do in return?"

 

Nintendo was disruptive with the original Wii because they solved that problem initially. They had a motion controller, in the box that no one else had (at first). They shipped that box for a relatively inexpensive price and had a killer app that showed off that motion controller in a way no one else had (Wii Sports).

 

And when you were done with that, they had Nintendo exclusives that also made use of that remote that you couldn't get on other consoles. Out of the gate, they had franchises and they kept coming.

 

That was their competitive differentiator and why they sold a lot of Wii's despite "the low tech".

 

What did the Wii U have? A touch screen that didn't really add to the experience except for having a touch screen? A lack of killer apps - even from Nintendo? A relatively high price tag because of the touch screen in return for lower tech, weaker first party support than in past and weaker third party support.

 

Nintendo really pooched the launch. I liked the Wii U fine after the franchises came years later and I got a great deal on it. But for the first couple of years, what reasons really did you have to buy one over the competition?

[Flojomojo]

Nintendo was first to mainstream touchscreen gaming in 2004, with the DS. It's not like they were chasing the tablet trend, but rather building on something else they had.

 

Wii U is an HD Wii with a big DS, with dual analog sticks, lots of buttons, and off-screen gaming.

 

There's nothing wrong with what they were offering ...except for its relative lack of power and almost total absence of third party support. I question whether they could have gotten the price down significantly less if they had left out the tablet controller ...it's not a whole lot nicer than a $50 Kindle Fire.

[Atariboy]

That's what Nintendo gets for forgoing a 3DS Player add-on. Would've justified the touch screen right then and there.

[cybercylon]

Nintendo was first to mainstream touchscreen gaming in 2004, with the DS. It's not like they were chasing the tablet trend, but rather building on something else they had.

 

Wii U is an HD Wii with a big DS, with dual analog sticks, lots of buttons, and off-screen gaming.

 

There's nothing wrong with what they were offering ...except for its relative lack of power and almost total absence of third party support. I question whether they could have gotten the price down significantly less if they had left out the tablet controller ...it's not a whole lot nicer than a $50 Kindle Fire.

 

Probably... and use those funds to add more horse power instead. Since it came in between the last generation of the other consoles and the current one, having on par with the current PS4 would have probably made it too expensive so something in between the two generations would probably have done fine. As I said, good first party Nintendo games sell systems.

 

Except for certain applications, no mainstream computers were using PowerPC chips anymore, so they could have switched to x64 right there and then. Might have killed BC... then again, maybe not since the Wii was underpowered anyway.

[DracIsBack]

Nintendo was first to mainstream touchscreen gaming in 2004, with the DS. It's not like they were chasing the tablet trend, but rather building on something else they had.

 

Wii U is an HD Wii with a big DS, with dual analog sticks, lots of buttons, and off-screen gaming.

 

There's nothing wrong with what they were offering ...except for its relative lack of power and almost total absence of third party support. I question whether they could have gotten the price down significantly less if they had left out the tablet controller ...it's not a whole lot nicer than a $50 Kindle Fire.

 

Sorry - not buying it. What games made use of the tablet that made people go "wow - that's different?! That's cool?!"

 

I have a bunch of Wii games (including Nintendo's own) and never found a single game that made use of the tablet (it's differentiator) the way that - say - Wii Sports made use of the Wii remote.

[Bill Loguidice]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I think it's clear that even Nintendo (as a whole) is frustrated with their glacial pace of software releases. Rallying around a single system that you can bet is a 100% replacement for both Wii U and 3DS (in fact, if not in PR statement) is the best way to ensure that they can properly feed their upcoming system a steady stream of games (with hopefully reasonable third party support). It also will allow them to follow the same model as Sony and Microsoft in making this THE platform and just incrementing new versions of the system as market conditions dictate.

[Andromeda Stardust]

There's no booming black market in selling last-gen Nintendo systems loaded with VC software, so the VC sales Nintendo would lose are minuscule by allowing that content to remain on our Wii U's and 3DS's after the upgrade process.

There is a huge black market for pirated content on Wii. I have heard of various people offering softmod service for Wiis to customers either too scared, lazy, or not knowledgeable enough to do so themselves.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Sorry - not buying it. What games made use of the tablet that made people go "wow - that's different?! That's cool?!"

 

I have a bunch of Wii games (including Nintendo's own) and never found a single game that made use of the tablet (it's differentiator) the way that - say - Wii Sports made use of the Wii remote.

Launch title Nintendo Land made impressive use of it. So does Lego City Undercover. So does Pikmin 3.

 

And even if a game does not use Gamepad specific features, off-TV play is convenient and useful when a partner wants to use the TV, sleep, etc...

[Andromeda Stardust]

That's what Nintendo gets for forgoing a 3DS Player add-on. Would've justified the touch screen right then and there.

As much as I'd have loved a GB Player style addon for Wii-U, it would have undercut their eShop sales for DS games. There was no eShop in the GBA / Game Cube days so Nintendo wasn't losing money by allowing people to play older games on the big screen.

[Atariboy]

A well done 3DS Player add-on surely would've racked in a lot more in profit than the relatively late addition of the small selection of DS downloads on the Wii U Virtual Console has.

 

Not to mention helped grow the Wii U install base and even sell a few more 3DS games than otherwise were sold, since there's always a segment of people out there that find the thought of playing on a small screen distasteful but hate missing out on games like A Link Between Worlds.

 

And you still could've had your DS selection on the Virtual Console, since even with a 3DS Player, they'd still be demand just as there's demand for downloadable Wii classics off the Wii U eShop despite the presence of backwards compatibility with original Wii software.

 

There is a huge black market for pirated content on Wii. I have heard of various people offering softmod service for Wiis to customers either too scared, lazy, or not knowledgeable enough to do so themselves.

 

That's just it, pirated software.

 

You're not seeing people list their Wii, Xbox 360, or Playstation 3 with a significant amount of legitimate purchased DLC and earning a large premium off of it. Nintendo need not be afraid that if people start upgrading Virtual Console downloads to the NX version that they'll turn around and list their last-gen hardware to sell with their older downloads to someone that potentially would've otherwise bought a NX and purchased VC downloads themselves.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Atariboy

[Gamemoose]

 

I'd say it was more a product of the times. Everybody was getting in on the touchscreen craze. And to come to market without one would be a death sentence.

 

Didn't matter if it was useful, it just had to be there.

Who was getting on the touchscreen "craze"? Not Sony or Microsoft, that's for sure. If Nintendo made the tablet controller the "default" control scheme for all Wii U games, that would have changed things. Instead you have one player being the "game master" (in a sense) in a multiplayer game while everyone else uses regular controllers. It's the odd-person out having a big bulky controller and an experience not all can share. Not to mention the developers then have to code for Pro controllers and Wii Remotes/'chucks as well. On top of that-in a family situation you know kids are going to want to jump onto the pad. My kid takes pad control when we play and I really don't want to attempt to get a Wii U for at home with my brood of step-children as I know there will be whining on who gets the pad.

 

If Nintendo either stuck with standard controllers or tablet only (as expensive as that might have been), I think things would have been different.

[DracIsBack]

Launch title Nintendo Land made impressive use of it. So does Lego City Undercover. So does Pikmin 3.

 

And even if a game does not use Gamepad specific features, off-TV play is convenient and useful when a partner wants to use the TV, sleep, etc...

 

I guess we agree to "disagree". I don't believe that people understood *why* they wanted or needed that tablet as part of a game system and I don't believe it explained itself well as a 'differentiator' that would resonate with people.

 

In the early days of the Wii, I remember people buying them by the boatloads, lined up to try them in the store and all speaking about how they thought Wii sports with that remote was hilarious.

 

I can't say I ever heard that about the Wii U.

 

Add in the fact that the franchises showed up years later and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

That said, I'll check out the games you recommend.

 

Don't take this as me "hating the Wii U" personally. I managed to get mine brand new for $149 Canadian and scored three games as part of the deal. I couldn't be happier at that price.

Edited August 4, 2016 by DracIsBack

[thegamezmaster]

A well done 3DS Player add-on surely would've racked in a lot more in profit than the relatively late addition of the small selection of DS downloads on the Wii U Virtual Console has.

 

Not to mention helped grow the Wii U install base and even sell a few more 3DS games than otherwise were sold, since there's always a segment of people out there that find the thought of playing on a small screen distasteful but hate missing out on games like A Link Between Worlds.

 

And you still could've had your DS selection on the Virtual Console, since even with a 3DS Player, they'd still be demand just as there's demand for downloadable Wii classics off the Wii U eShop despite the presence of backwards compatibility with original Wii software.

 

 

That's just it, pirated software.

 

You're not seeing people list their Wii, Xbox 360, or Playstation 3 with a significant amount of legitimate purchased DLC and earning a large premium off of it. Nintendo need not be afraid that if people start upgrading Virtual Console downloads to the NX version that they'll turn around and list their last-gen hardware to sell with their older downloads to someone that potentially would've otherwise bought a NX and purchased VC downloads themselves.

 

I wish they would have made a 3DS player. I even wrote Nintendo about such a device but the answered back they had no plans for such a device. Sure would be nice to play 3DS games on a TV. Hope they don't screw the pooch with the NX.

Edited August 5, 2016 by thegamezmaster

[Andromeda Stardust]

I wish they would have made a 3DS player. I even wrote Nintendo about such a device but the answered back they had no plans for such a device. Sure would be nice to play 3DS games on a TV. Hope they don't screw the pooch with the NX.

They are pushing digital downloads so a device that plays old physical media is unfortunately no longer in the cards. It is also possible that a 3DS gamepad add-on may have been more difficult and expensive to produce than the original GB Player or even a 2DS.

 

BTW the "needs two screens" excuse is BS. The 2DS is actually a single touch screen masked by a piece of plastic with two rectangular holes. The single screen and lack of 3D is why the 2DS was available for so cheap.

 

As it stands, with two devices, a N3DS and a GBA, you can play every handheld cartridge format ever released by Nintendo.