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What do you do with your SIDE2 ?


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#1 Stormtrooper of Death OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 3, 2016 12:00 PM

I am still pondering what I will buy. A sio2SD or a SIDE2.

 

I have a 130XE (standard 128K) and the SIDE2 is interesting. Using the Atari with SDX harddrive way. Sub directories, etc.

 

So, my question is to all the users of the SIDE2 cartridge.

 

What do you do with it ?

 

Do you use it for programming, games, watching a large video from the memorycard, use it for a BBS system or other things ?


Edited by Stormtrooper of Death, Fri Jun 3, 2016 12:01 PM.


#2 gozar ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 3, 2016 12:23 PM

Unless you are going to also install the Ultimate 1MB, I would say go the SIO2SD route. Without the U1M the Side2 can't act like a standard PBI device or let you mount atr disk images.

 

For SDX, flash it on an Atarimax cart or pick up the PCB from Dropcheck (no case, but you would get the pass through connector and RTC).



#3 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 3, 2016 12:34 PM

Just to note: SIDE has an RTC. Not being a gamer or having many carts, I used SIDE on its own (booting SDX and using the HDD via the soft-driver) for a year or more without U1MB (with some SIMM 1MB RAM expansion) before Ultimate was available. Obviously it's less versatile as Gozar points out, but if all you want to do is use SDX with a hard disk, SIDE2 works. Of course, I had an SIO2SD too at the time, and I'd recommend having both (or SIO2PC, which is staggeringly inexpensive if you can solder four wires to an FTDI breakout board).

 

Anyway: I now use SIDE2 with the aforementioned U1MB PBI setup, and have not touched SIO2SD in about three years. ;)



#4 CharlieChaplin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 3, 2016 12:57 PM

Nothing!

 

So I sold my SIDE2, My-IDE-2 and both of my U1MB equipped Atari 800XL computers to Nir Dary... hopefully they arrive fine in Israel.

Therefore I keep my two 800XL`s, both with 512k SRAM upgrade, no SDX onboard, no flashchip onboard, no VBXE onboard, no 65816 onboard and thus no reason to ever update any firmware.

 

On the other hand, I have four SIO2SD (2x SIO2SD by Lotharek and 2x SIO2SD/PC-micro by Santosp), I am quite happy with - they both have the latest firmware (and should there ever be a firmware update, I won`t care). All four have 2GB SD cards by Sandisk, filled with games, demos and applications, that I use, view or play from time to time.

 

Since my remaining 800XL`s "only" have XL-OS and Old-OS, but no HIAS highspeed OS, all my SIO2SDs are set to Pokey divisor 5 or 6 (ultraspeed), thats fast enough for me.  (When testing with U1MB 800XL and highspeed-OS, pokey divisor 1 was the fastest I could use, divisor 0/zero did not work.) I also switched off the "turbo-mode" in the SIO2SD setup/config., because a lot of software did not work with it and also SIO2SD made problems, when it was activated.

 

Guess I am more the tape/data-recorder and floppy-disk drive user (or floppy-emulation user) than a harddisk user on the A8 and I am quite satisfied with that.


Edited by CharlieChaplin, Fri Jun 3, 2016 1:00 PM.


#5 Dmitry OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 3, 2016 2:41 PM

I have both, but only experience with sio2sd. I use sio2sd for easy transport of files from Mac to Atari. I do not like the sio2sd lcd screen, not comfortable to my tastes for navigating. But to pop the sd card back and forth, is cool.
Well worth it, if slow.

My side 2 is a paperweight only. Forgot to get any expanded memory, so fdisk doesn't work. I do have my Atari off at the technician to have both u1mb and rapidus installed. I do look forward to using my side 2.....but to date, only proved that it works. Side loader works.... Fdisk works on an xe

#6 Philsan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 3, 2016 2:46 PM

I have both, but only experience with sio2sd. I use sio2sd for easy transport of files from Mac to Atari. I do not like the sio2sd lcd screen, not comfortable to my tastes for navigating. But to pop the sd card back and forth, is cool.
Well worth it, if slow.

My side 2 is a paperweight only. Forgot to get any expanded memory, so fdisk doesn't work. I do have my Atari off at the technician to have both u1mb and rapidus installed. I do look forward to using my side 2.....but to date, only proved that it works. Side loader works.... Fdisk works on an xe

You can run files and mount disks with the on-screen menu.



#7 Stormtrooper of Death OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 3, 2016 4:12 PM

I have some ideas for some games I might make.

 

A "game on rails/rollercoaster" videogame. (using SIDE2 harddrive functions for video). like the old PC games that used videofootage a lot. pressing the button at the right moment to get further in the game.

 

Guitar Hero for SIDE2 (using PS2 videofootage on memory card). But i also have an idea to do my Guitar Hero 8bit style in the ultimate lo-tech. Using Atari XC-12 tapedeck for audio and code on standard Atari 600XL (16K). hehe. just for fun. will be 2 tapes. one with the guitar hero audio soundtrack . rewind/forward , press play on tape. and tape 2 has the game. a lot of hassle, but heck. We can play guitar hero.. on tape. at least when i make this game. dont expect miracles.

 

all ideas are of course just ideas. I have to learn assembly in Atmas 2 again. Because after more than 20 years, i have forgotten a lot. But not all !


Edited by Stormtrooper of Death, Fri Jun 3, 2016 4:16 PM.


#8 Stormtrooper of Death OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 3, 2016 4:17 PM

Also whenever i make games for SIDE2, they will use subdirectories. I dont know if there are any games at all that use subdirs and megabytes of storage memory for video footage and audio ?



#9 Stormtrooper of Death OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 3, 2016 4:18 PM

Oh, and at this moment its just ideas. and i am just reading lots of information about SIDE2 , Sio2SD, VBXCE etc. addons. the 65816 cpu or video upgrade things are also interesting, but not all are useable for me, because i cant solder. so i am only able to use ready made hardware options.....

 

And I think, that SIDE2 with 128Kb (130XE) can be powerfull enough. When you have the knowledge to program the machine.


Edited by Stormtrooper of Death, Fri Jun 3, 2016 4:20 PM.


#10 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 7:49 AM

So, if you already have extra memory, for example, I have 512K Rambo compatible upgrade in a 1200XL currently with no PBI upgrade, will the Side 2 be seen as a PBI device, like with the U1MB? Or even have any more features than a 64K machine? What limits are there to a Side 2 without U1MB upgrade? My concern is using SiDE 2 as a hard drive with SDX and my upgraded 1200XL , not an image loader. Eventually I'd like to have FJC's GUI running from it, but for now SDX and maybe ATOS if SDX is compatible with it (instead of SD 3.2 and 3.3).


Edited by Gunstar, Sat Jun 4, 2016 7:52 AM.


#11 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 10:00 AM

Get an IDE plus 2.0 if you want a real PBI mass storage device. SIDE and MyIDE are junky half-assed wanna-be solutions by comparison.

SIO2SD is an excellent SIO-connected general/mass storage device, and a viable replacement for the venerable floppy disk subsystem.

Edited by MEtalGuy66, Sat Jun 4, 2016 10:03 AM.


#12 Larry OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 10:22 AM

Here's a closely related question and also maybe an answer to the OP -- can I use my Side2 as a straight SDX cart?  I've been using an Atarimax 1Mb flash cart when I need to use SDX (without an Ultimate), but it lacks the RTC.  Do I need to do anything special or remove any drivers on the S2 to use it this way? And hey, it has that nice, cool red LED... :)

 

-Larry



#13 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 10:22 AM

So, if you already have extra memory, for example, I have 512K Rambo compatible upgrade in a 1200XL currently with no PBI upgrade, will the Side 2 be seen as a PBI device, like with the U1MB?


No: the PBI device is built into U1MB, while SIDE then just provides the CF slot.

What limits are there to a Side 2 without U1MB upgrade?


Without U1MB, SIDE can still run XEX files straight from a FAT partition and run a regular HDD from within SDX (via a driver which works much like a RAMdisk driver).

My concern is using SiDE 2 as a hard drive with SDX and my upgraded 1200XL, not an image loader.


In this scenario, regardless of MetalGuy's analysis, a SIDE2 on its own will do the job perfectly well. In addition, you may encounter difficulties finding somewhere to plug an IDE Plus into your 1200XL. Should you choose to install U1MB at a later date, the HDD solution is comparable to IDE Plus in terms of functionality (although it blocks the cart port and is not portable), and provides extras such as extra RAM, switchable OS, running ATRs from FAT, etc.

#14 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 10:23 AM

Here's a closely related question and also maybe an answer to the OP -- can I use my Side2 as a straight SDX cart?  I've been using an Atarimax 1Mb flash cart when I need to use SDX (without an Ultimate), but it lacks the RTC.  Do I need to do anything special or remove any drivers on the S2 to use it this way? And hey, it has that nice, cool red LED... :)
 


Certainly, and no special preparation is required.

#15 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 1:13 PM

Get an IDE plus 2.0 if you want a real PBI mass storage device. SIDE and MyIDE are junky half-assed wanna-be solutions by comparison.

SIO2SD is an excellent SIO-connected general/mass storage device, and a viable replacement for the venerable floppy disk subsystem.

So then IDE plus 2.0 will work on my 1200XL that does not have a PBI port? But some how it isn't half-assed like Side 2 or MyIDE? Or does the IDE plus 2.0 infact require a PBI and your response is just half-assed as you only half-assed read my post? Because from what FJC says, that half-assed SiDE 2 solution seems perfect to me for my apparently half-assed computer since it doesn't have a PBI port. And that is music to my ears since I don't want to do a half-assed PBI mod to my 1200XL. Or would that be a full-assed PBI mod? I get confused because the only half-assed device I have ever owned (and I did own a MyIDE) was your half-assed designed dual-Pokey board that I can't fit in my 1200XL without doing a half-assed redesign with a ribbon cable! What's the half-assed part again?

 

As always, thanks for the half-assed attitude.


Edited by Gunstar, Sat Jun 4, 2016 1:36 PM.


#16 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 1:40 PM

No: the PBI device is built into U1MB, while SIDE then just provides the CF slot.


Without U1MB, SIDE can still run XEX files straight from a FAT partition and run a regular HDD from within SDX (via a driver which works much like a RAMdisk driver).


In this scenario, regardless of MetalGuy's analysis, a SIDE2 on its own will do the job perfectly well. In addition, you may encounter difficulties finding somewhere to plug an IDE Plus into your 1200XL. Should you choose to install U1MB at a later date, the HDD solution is comparable to IDE Plus in terms of functionality (although it blocks the cart port and is not portable), and provides extras such as extra RAM, switchable OS, running ATRs from FAT, etc.

Thanks FJC, as always, your the best. I was researching my options and I was confused as to what SIO and cartridge devices that use CF/SD cards were just image loaders and which could be used like a real HDD. I owned the original MyIDE years ago, and used it with a real hard-disk and it didn't seem "a half-assed" solution to me at the time,my HDD worked just like and HDD! but this time around I wanted to loose the real HDD altogether in favor of cards as long as they worked virtually the same as my old MyIDE setup did. 



#17 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 1:52 PM

Its unreasonable to expect a pbi device on a machine that had no provisions for them in which case, yes you have to settle for half assed solutions.

#18 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 2:26 PM

I was researching my options and I was confused as to what SIO and cartridge devices that use CF/SD cards were just image loaders and which could be used like a real HDD. I owned the original MyIDE years ago, and used it with a real hard-disk and it didn't seem "a half-assed" solution to me at the time,my HDD worked just like and HDD! but this time around I wanted to loose the real HDD altogether in favor of cards as long as they worked virtually the same as my old MyIDE setup did.


While I'm not a MyIDE user, the hardware/software has many fans and now that the hardware is solid, usable and professionally produced (MYIDE2, that is), arguments about what is and what isn't an appropriate way to use a hard disk are entirely subjective, as long as all the solutions ultimately provide you with the hard disk functionality you want. These are the hard facts of the matter, since while I might prefer HDD implementations which are recognizable by the stock Atari OS, many users don't give a crap either way as long as the solution enables them to run the software they want with the most conveniently obtainable hardware. What seems elegant, opportune and discreet to me (allowing Ultimate 1MB to provide the "New Device" ROM which drives the attached cartridge based CF adapter) might resemble a single exposed buttock to others, but these are all pretty mature HDD implementations and you might as well choose the one which does what you need it to do. Since the 1200XL lacks the requisite expansion port to support the full-bottomed solution (and is presumably itself therefore the demi-clunge of the Atari 8-bit line), I say go with the uni-cheek implementation if it suits your needs. :D


Edited by flashjazzcat, Sat Jun 4, 2016 2:27 PM.


#19 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 4:27 PM

While I'm not a MyIDE user, the hardware/software has many fans and now that the hardware is solid, usable and professionally produced (MYIDE2, that is), arguments about what is and what isn't an appropriate way to use a hard disk are entirely subjective, as long as all the solutions ultimately provide you with the hard disk functionality you want. These are the hard facts of the matter, since while I might prefer HDD implementations which are recognizable by the stock Atari OS, many users don't give a crap either way as long as the solution enables them to run the software they want with the most conveniently obtainable hardware. What seems elegant, opportune and discreet to me (allowing Ultimate 1MB to provide the "New Device" ROM which drives the attached cartridge based CF adapter) might resemble a single exposed buttock to others, but these are all pretty mature HDD implementations and you might as well choose the one which does what you need it to do. Since the 1200XL lacks the requisite expansion port to support the full-bottomed solution (and is presumably itself therefore the demi-clunge of the Atari 8-bit line), I say go with the uni-cheek implementation if it suits your needs. :D

Well, as Nolan Bushnell himself once said, and I agree completely; "I mistrust consensus, because generally speaking, stupid people agree with the majority."

 

I personally think the 1200XL is the flagship of the Atari 8-bit fleet, The rest of the XL and XE line, to me, seem more like toys with cartridge slots exposed up top (XL) and cheaply made cases and keyboards (XE). The 1200XL is a tank with a fantastic keyboard and looks and is built like a serious computer, regardless of a lack of PBI. And if it's a demi-clunge, then what are the 400/800's with no PBI?

 

Hell, I haven't used an original OS for years, since I got a 32-in-1, and yes, I'm one of those who finds the cart-port only implementations to be elegant, opportune and discreet. And in fact, proves to me personally, just how of little importance, in this day and age, the PBI port actually is, IMHO. And my "Poor man's 1400XL" is perfectly fine without that final PBI modification. My machine has a lot more to it than the 1400XL was ever going to be at this point anyway. The only machine, IMHO, that could once again replace the 1200XL, as the flagship would be an 800 with incognito board, and a SiDE 2 or MyIDE 2 solution. All others are inferior, regardless of PBI/ECI ports. Lipstick on pigs is all that amounts too.


Edited by Gunstar, Sat Jun 4, 2016 4:45 PM.


#20 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 4, 2016 11:31 PM

Both my 1200XLs have 130XE motherboards.. Your 1200XL is an inferior pig by comparisson.. and garbage like MyIDE and SIDE are truly Lipstick on that pig...

#21 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 5, 2016 7:27 AM

Well isn't that just special for you. Your absolutely right and I am totally wrong...in your own little mind. Congrats to yourself. Delusion is bliss apparently.

What a waste of good 1200XLs...



#22 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 5, 2016 8:09 AM

Dude. Yur taking this the wrong way.. YOU are the one who got offensive..

The bottom line is this.

IDE Plus is a REAL PBI mass storage device that conforms to the Atari PBI standard, works with any standard XL/XE OS that supports PBI without the need for an SDX based "driver" loaded like SIDE and MYIDE..

IDE Plus is a full 16-bit IDE interface, unlike SIDE and MyIDE which use the absolute crappiest mode of communication that a CF card can possibly be ass-wired up to.

YOU are the one who insists on the delusion that the 1200XL is the best machine. True, many people prefer the 1200XL (or 800) keyboard to the other XL machines and certainly the XE series.. But, in truth, electronically, the 1200XL is an "early evolution" of what the platform evolved into. If you are insisting on using that motherboard, fine.. But just like you have to hack it to get modern/compatable OS ROM, MMU, Internal BASIC, etc.. You also have to hack it to get the PBI which is the correct and best solution for local bused hardware expansions such as fast mass storage devices. Yes, there ARE other "lesser alternatives" (maybe that's a nicer term than "half-assed").. But, that is what they are.. Just like a modem that connects through the joystick port will never be as good as one that connects through a proper RS232 interface.. The XEP80 will never be as good as a local-bussed 80 column display adapter.. Etc. etc..

I am a person who uses very blunt language. I don't "sugar coat" or mince words.. Its not intended to offend.. Its just meant to relay the truth with appropriate emphasis, in as few words as possible.. And that's my fault, I guess..

#23 Frankie OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 5, 2016 8:41 AM

https://m.reddit.com...eople_disliked/

#24 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 5, 2016 9:14 AM

It's okay to be blunt and plain spoken. It's not okay to be rude, disrespectful and have no concept that one's own opinions and beliefs have sole claim on "truth." Since I have worked professionally in two different fields where people wear "asshole" as a badge of honor, I have some experience with this kind of thing.

That said, my broken and half-assed U1MB and SIDE2-equipped 800XL serves my needs very well, and are very flexible solutions for anyone wishing to use them similarly.



#25 MEtalGuy66 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 5, 2016 9:19 AM

There is only one truth.. The further your "opinion" is from it, the further you are in error..

Yep, I've installed quite a few Ultimate 1megs. I'm well aware of exactly what it is and does. Doesn't change my opinion of SIDE or MyIDE.

Edited by MEtalGuy66, Sun Jun 5, 2016 9:24 AM.





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