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Bosconian for the 8-bits


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#226 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:44 PM

Ah thank you shanti for confirming the formation is still to come, you said before it would happen but there's been some fantastic improvements I wondered if this might be at a cost..



#227 adam242 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:05 PM

Can anyone test game on real atari?

 

Works fine on an Incognito 800 in Colleen mode with RAMbo 320K selected.

 

Impressive as all hell!



#228 a8isa1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:35 PM

I tried the SDrive's built-in binary file loader again.  This time it worked.

 

Still no luck with ATRs but I don't have my usual set of DOSes and game loaders handy on this laptop.



#229 Paul Westphal OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:13 PM

Games work on 800xl with Wizztronic's 256k. I will try some other configs. Eightbitfix.com



#230 shanti77 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:55 AM

Thx.

#231 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:50 AM

@tep392: Answer is no.

 

@a8isa1: I use official Altira 2.81, but I download and run Bosconian on 2.91-test15, I have no problem, maybe you have wrong config. In which moment game freeze, after run before speech "Blast off" ?

 

@Gunstar,@a8isa1 how you load game?

Sorry for the late reply. I have been trying to load it via APE and SIO2PC to my Rambo 256K PAL 1200XL. I have the 32-in-1 OS and tried so far with Warp+ OS, and PAL XL rev. C OS. Maybe it's a PAL issue? I will test further with a few more OS's and see if it works with any of them. All earlier versions of Bosconian work fine with my PAL 1200XL and Warp+ OS, which has a very high compatibility with all Atari's official OS's. The main difference is just automatic 3xSIO speed.

 

shanti77, sorry if you mentioned this before, but what settings are you using on Altirra (or other emulator) for developing Bosconian? Memory? OS? etc.?


Edited by Gunstar, Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:57 AM.


#232 shanti77 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:47 PM

I use standard configuration, I must set only 128K RAM . Game work on Altirra, Atari800SDL,Atari800Win, Collen (Android),Atari800-SDL(Android), Atari800PSP(PSP).



#233 Philsan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:50 PM

Xex works perfectly with Atari 800XL, double Pokey, 320KB (U1MB), SIDE2 cart.

At first the game seems too simple but from round 3 you fight a lot of enemies.

Awesome game, thank you!

I forgot to point out that my machine is PAL.



#234 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:38 AM

Well, I'm still not sure why this version freezes with Warp+ or PAL XL rev. C, but I just tested it with NTSC rev. C and it works fine. Maybe it was some gremlin in my system that is gone now, I will try the other OS's again.

 

A few minutes later...I just tried it with Warp+ OS and it works fine. I did re-download the .XEX from here, maybe the first time it got corrupted, or like I said; some gremlin was in there and he's gone now. ;)


Edited by Gunstar, Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:41 AM.


#235 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:27 PM

This is looking graphically just about perfect, but I hope the start music is WIP because in its current state it's a mess. POKEY should have no problem reproducing the start theme. Heck, even the MSX version gets it right.



#236 miker OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:16 PM

It can be fixed anytime. Just I need the notes to correct this "mess". 



#237 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:54 PM

What, you guys haven't already disassembled the arcade ROMs?



#238 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:11 PM

It can be fixed anytime. Just I need the notes to correct this "mess". 

One of my favorite methods is to grab the audio out of MAME and analyze it. Then you can get exact pitch, waveform, and duration of sounds. Studying the waveform gives you hints as to which Pokey sounds might be the best match.



#239 tjlazer OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:13 PM

Is there an updated 64k version out yet?


Edited by tjlazer, Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:13 PM.


#240 shanti77 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:24 PM

I haven't time to make two version together, maybe when I finish 128k version I do 64k version. Now I test formation attack.

#241 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:28 PM

Thank you Shanti!!



#242 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:23 PM

One of my favorite methods is to grab the audio out of MAME and analyze it. Then you can get exact pitch, waveform, and duration of sounds. Studying the waveform gives you hints as to which Pokey sounds might be the best match.

 

I was doing some reading on Bosconian's sound, and it should be possible to get very close with POKEY. It has what's called a three-channel WSG (waveform sound generator), the same sound hardware Pac-Man used. Here's a technical description: http://www.lomont.or...anEmulation.pdf


Edited by ZylonBane, Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:23 PM.


#243 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:46 PM

POKEY should have no problem reproducing the start theme. Heck, even the MSX version gets it right.


That's a weird row of sentences ;)

POKEY "1970's" technology more 1977...

Bosconian 1981

MSX 1980's Soundchip, well, one of the channels is comparable with the tech of the full POKEY sound part. Any coder, using that chip would never encounter volume or cancelling sound issues, and the waves stand stable in any case and frequency.
Ofcourse, it's possible to create something fitting. But it is weird to say: Look , there is an apple on the Tree. One could easily grab it, even a giant can do this.

AY3-8910 Sound...


#244 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:39 PM

I can't believe I'm actually responding to Emkay drivel, but here goes...

 

Arcade Gradius uses two AY-3-8910s, driven by a dedicated Z-80 CPU.

 

MSX computers had a single AY-3-8910, controlled by the main CPU. Which is why the MSX version of Gradius sounded like this:

 



#245 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:37 AM

I can't believe I'm actually responding to Emkay drivel, but here goes...


Do I hear a fish bubbling?

What does your post offer against my explanation? Nothing, nada, niente, mai mi , nix... null ;)
The Soundchip is not fully used in it's capabilities during the gameplay. But, if your'e doing some special routines, giving more CPU to the chip when other stuff can wait, it sounds like the arcade machine.
Does the penny drop ? I don't think so.
Also, people today don't know the difference between standard programming and what the needed resources were, to get POKEY sounding correctly. This slide melodic part will never sound that correct on the Atari using just "programming" .

#246 Jetboot Jack OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:18 AM

I think Zylon Bane is saying that the early members of the AY sound chip family (and variants such as the YM2149) as used in many home micros and consoles that favoured off the shelf components like the INTV/ST/MSX/ZX Spectrum etc is not a very powerful sound ship.

 

And less flexible than Pokey in many ways - so perhaps getting great Bosconian audio should be possible given the AY powered MSX version is quite good albeit the usual tinny AY...

 

As someone who has had to support AY/YM chips in various games, I gotta say I think in the right hands they can do pretty good audio, but it's always "thin" - on the GRADIUS arcade machine dual chips sound kinda neat as do Konami SCC enhanced carts - but they are not anything like AY...

 

     sTeVE

 

P.S. The AY chip was designed in 1978 - so Pokey is pretty much a contemporary...



#247 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:56 AM

P.S. The AY chip was designed in 1978 - so Pokey is pretty much a contemporary...

Wikipedia says "early 80s" ... or let's say "Wiki says both"....
One says "Used by the manufacturer in 1978" , the other says "in development in the early 80s"...

But that's all not about the point.

Edited by emkay, Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:18 AM.


#248 Jetboot Jack OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:33 AM

Indeed - the chip was sold from 1978 (it's in their catalog of that year) - hence it's inclusion in the Intellivision etc - and is still in various forms in production - quite a feat...

 

But that it is less powerful than Pokey does mean we have "expectations" :-)

 

sTeVE


Edited by Jetboot Jack, Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:34 AM.


#249 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:49 AM

But that it is less powerful than Pokey does mean we have "expectations" :-)


Yeah, FX wise, POKEY beats a lot chips. But, if you want to play FX in a musical row, things turn quickly.

#250 ZylonBane OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:17 PM

And now hopefully Emkay understands why I specifically said an MSX, not a Konami Nemesis board.

Just kidding, he'll never get it.




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