Why I Like Apple II's over Macintosh

[simbalion]

I admit, when I first got into retro-gaming and computing, I started out trying to collect some nicer Macintosh computers at sales and such. Mind you, most Macs around here were used in schools, so those were the places to find them. I would run into stacks of Apple II computers and parts for sale at the schools, often for $1 each, but I always went for the Macs. Sadly, I should have grabbed the Apple II computers instead. Every time I found a Mac it would work for a while, then die. Usually this was because Macs use a RAM battery that goes bad and without system disks, good luck reviving them. I did have a nice, all-in-one power mac for a while until one of our cats somehow toppled it off the table. Anyways, the biggest issue was always software. Schools would have tons of Macs, but they would refuse to sell the software!

On to the Apple II computers. I did have an Apple II+ for a while that I found at a thrift store, but it smoked itself before I was on Atariage here and before I had any sort of understanding of what went wrong. I finally got a very nice Apple //c off a Mac dealer and I finally woke up to the Apple II series fully. For one thing, although I don't have a lot, software was easier to find. What helps is that a lot of game disks I would get for my C64 or A8 computers would have one side for them, the other for Apple II+ or IIe. Now I am still on a quest to at least find a II+ again and, hopefully, maybe find one more big haul of II stuff before it all gets snapped up or shipped to the recyclers. That's a big issue anymore as the knee-jerk reaction with the younger crowd when they find piles of old computers is to just haul them into be ground up.

On a final note, I DO have a nice Macintosh Plus, but no software for it besides the original system disks it was sold with.

[Flojomojo]

The Macintosh Garden is the best place for Mac stuff.

 

Apple II works well enough in emulation for me, then again I don't have any nostalgia for that system. :-( We had them in school but they never seemed quite fun enough. Maybe it was my teachers at the time.

[simbalion]

You know, you don't have to have nostalgia for something to be interested in it. I think that can be a hang-up sometimes. Only a choice few straight A students with parents wealthy enough to have a computer at home were ever allowed to touch the Apple II's in school. With me it's not so much nostalgia, but curiosity and interest that finally got me into them. I never listened to tube radios, but did see them as a kid, so collect those as well. Again, no nostalgia, just interest in how they work, look, and sound. If anything, I do have nostalgia about the Macintosh Plus because we did learn some on those when I was in middle school. After that, everything went to Windoze PCs and got a little more boring.

[Flojomojo]

What is so compelling about it to you? Even when it was new, the lack of lowercase type killed my interest in this computer.

[simbalion]

I think that was more an issue with the original II and maybe II+. The IIe and //c seem to have lowercase.

I just like the buggers myself. I like my other vintage computers, but I think what draws me to the II series is the fact they are so open. Just pop the top and there's the computer with seven slots for expansion and who knows what little wonders could be installed in there. The power supplies last a long time and don't seem to blow the whole computer up like the Commodore 64 ones do. They are powerful enough for the time to get things done, most I have seen usually have the full expansion up to 128K *at least the IIe's*, the disk drives are way faster than the Commodore, and there's no RF shield in there to overheat things. Keyboard is also nice, though I admit the keys are a little too easy to break off compared to other makes. I also like how you can safely plop the monitor right on top of the unit, saving table space. Can't do that with most other 8-bits. Also, you can plug the Apple II into any TV with a video-in jack without modification if you don't have a monitor. It's not a perfect computer line, but is sort of genesis when you think about it.

I love my TI-99/4a and Atari's for their use of cartridges and great graphics for the time, but I love the Apple II series for their overall 'workhorse' feel. Simple, and fairly friendly.

[The Usotsuki]

The //e, //c and IIgs all absolutely have lowercase. Right from the boot splash.

[simbalion]

I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a IIgs someday....

[Grimakis]

The Apple II line is fantastic.

 

Of course they have lowercase. The //e, arguably the most common model has it out of the gate. I think many II+ also were modded/enhanced to have it.

[Osgeld]

Yea it's like only the early models like the base }{ and early +'s

 

What I don't like about the 16 bit 2's is direct out of the box you have to upgrade the crap out of them

 

My current setup is a LC2 (working on a lc3) with an apple II card so more 16bit goodness and the exact same subsystem as seen in the GS

[spacecadet]

I grew up with the Apple II line. I think the first computer game I ever played - maybe the first computer I ever saw playing *any* game - was Wizardry on either an Apple II or II+. I remember the guy who had it had a fully kitted out machine - he had it running open, and he had 5 or so of the slots filled up, with cables coming out all over the place, and he just had boxes of software and games stacked up all around him. I thought it was amazing.

 

I really wanted an Apple IIe but it was too expensive for my family. But when the IIc came out, it was just about affordable and my mom bought me one in 1985. It's one of the best gifts anyone has ever given me. I used that thing as my only computer for 8 years. I was a total Apple II guy. I was still always a little jealous of the IIe and how expandable it was - the IIc had what I needed but left no room to grow. But it was still an Apple II and it was what we could afford. I loved it anyway. When the IIGS came out, I really wanted one of those too but couldn't afford it either.

 

I really consider the Mac line to be just a completely different thing; almost diametrically opposed. That guy running his II+ with the top off and the cards and the cables hanging all over the place - that was *not* what the Mac was about. The Mac was Steve Jobs' line of closed, all-in-one, simplified computers that would say "Hello!", whereas the II was Woz's line of hardcore, expandable, powerful, badass computers. The IIGS should have been even more powerful than it was except that Jobs intentionally neutered the CPU so it wouldn't show up the first Mac. If that thing had the 7+mhz CPU it should have, it would have had similar speed to the first Mac but far better graphics and sound, and a lot more expandability (it had the latter things anyway, it was just slower).

 

So I was an Apple guy basically from 1980 until 1993 or so, but I never took to the Mac at all. I did think about it when I finally upgraded, but it just wasn't for me. The PC was more similar to what the Apple II line was about, so that's the direction I went in.

 

Nowadays I've got a secondhand IIGS currently hooked up. My original IIc is still with me, but it's broken at the moment. I've never really considered getting into older Mac stuff; it still doesn't appeal to me.

[rpiguy9907]

Where are you located? I know of a warehouse that has probably over 100 Apple IIs pulled from schools, and software for a dollar.

[Opry99er]

 

 

If that were true, I would get in my car and drive right now.

[+nanochess]

The Apple II can do a lot more than the original Mac. The reason is Applesoft BASIC. For the Mac you needed a disk for each thing, and 128K isn't enough.

[The Usotsuki]

 

 

If that were true, I would get in my car and drive right now.

Man, tell me about it. I have a //e, but the keyboard is damaged.

[simbalion]

Where are you located? I know of a warehouse that has probably over 100 Apple IIs pulled from schools, and software for a dollar.

I am in Dover, Ohio. If that was close, I would be on my way so fast you wouldn't see me for the dust!

[rpiguy9907]

It's in PA by Valley Forge. Here are pics from my last trip.

 

http://m.imgur.com/a/mmp0c

[rpiguy9907]

To clarify the software is a dollar he prices for the Apple computers are all over the map, but I like that you can actually plug things in and test them there. I got a IIgs RGB monitor for $35, which is fantastic compared to rip off eBay prices and crazy CRT shipping fees.

[spacecadet]

It's in PA by Valley Forge. Here are pics from my last trip.

 

http://m.imgur.com/a/mmp0c

 

What is this place? Can anyone just go there? I don't live too far away; might be worth a little road trip.

[rpiguy9907]

 

What is this place? Can anyone just go there? I don't live too far away; might be worth a little road trip.

It's called Kemner's Surplus it is open to the public! It's on South Washington street in Pottstown.

[simbalion]

Sadly that would be a long road trip for me. Still, it's nice to see someone working and dealing with the old Apples instead of just chucking them into the trash like people in Northern Ohio do. Too bad that guy doesn't do online orders.

[Nebulon]

The Apple II has a certain charm to it. If you sit down, get a quick tutorial on it, and try out a few games (like Moon Patrol, Ms. Pac-Man, Lode Runner, Choplifter, Drol, Bolo, ...) you'll start to get the feel of it. It's a neat machine and it lets you get at the heart of it without any roadblocks. If you want a computer that encourages you to discover its various facets, the Apple II is a good one. And its software library is phenomenal.

 

As others have mentioned, the Mac is very much the opposite. The closed nature of the Mac is what really turned me off. Even my G3 ibook is sealed up tight. Without a technician's disc, there's no way (that I know of) to really get in there and mess with it. When the Mac went to UNIX, I was all excited. I figured now people would start to dig into the system and use them as UNIX workstations. However, it's a rare case that I've seen anyone even attempt that. Later they switched to the Intel chips and now they're essentially PCs running Mac OS.

 

I have to admit, nostalgia does factor into my love of the Apple II. Regardless, do agree that nostalgia isn't required in a lot of cases. For example, I have no nostalgia for Japanese computers, yet I still find them to be totally fascinating.