NX: If this is it, I'm actually happy.

[Serguei2]

Well, I've applied for a developer account from Nintendo. Waiting for them to authorise the application. No idea if I'll be approved but if they want to get more games developed then they have to bring in more Indies than they have to date. The problem that Nintendo have is that their dev kits tend to require the hardware, which obviously adds to their own costs when throwing the kits out to developers. So they tend to be picky over who they give the dev kits to.

 

It's a problem that Microsoft have had recently with the Xbone but they at least have a plethora of big studios willing to develop for it so they could afford to be picky. Nintendo, whether they like to admit it or not, don't have that luxury. The failure of the Wii U is also going to be an issue with any new developer that Nintendo tries to bring on board for the NX. Larger developers quickly jumped ship when it became clear that the U was not going to attract the user base Nintendo had hoped for.

 

Microsoft have now opened up retail Xbones for Indie developer use so there's no need to join the ID@Xbox programme and apply for a dev kit unless you have a project that needs the extra facilities. For developing on the Xbone (it's not a full rollout yet as it's still in Beta, but you are able to turn on developer mode - although the available RAM and other features are limited at the moment) you just need a PC with Windows 10.

 

Nintendo need to start looking at being more open with their hardware if they're going to succeed. It's a vicious circle - no players = no games. No games = no players. They have to break that circle somehow. May as well start by making sure there are plenty of games to make the platform as attractive as possible to players.

 

Do the indies rule the world now?

 

How about Activision, Electronic Arts, ID Software and others?

Edited July 30, 2016 by Serguei2

[Tickled_Pink]

 

Do the indies rule the world now?

 

How about Activision, Electronic Arts, ID Software and others?

 

Most dropped the Wii U early on. There are relatively few AAA developers around willing to spend the kind of money needed to develop those kinds of products on new or failing systems. Nintendo have a bit of an image problem following the poor performance of the U.

 

On the other hand, there are many more Indies who'd like to get their hands on dev kits - some Indies are only now getting their hands on Wii U dev kits because there are still opportunities to be had. An Indie isn't going to spend $1 million developing a title so there's still a chance that whatever they do spend they can make their money back on a title. There have been a lot of great games coming from Indies on some of the other platforms which Nintendo should be crying out for. Unfortunately people only remember the bucketload of crap that comes out as well.

 

Nintendo badly dropped the ball with the Wii U by not making the dev kit more readily available when the big studios dropped out.

[Andromeda Stardust]

@Tickled_Pink: Let us know how that goes. However they'll probably make you sign an NDA before they give you any hardware. If you "leak" that info online, they will hunt you down and flog you with big sticks.

[StopDrop&Retro]

I have a hard time believing that detachable controllers on a portable console will have analog sticks, even if they're the discs type like on a 3DS. We know Nintendo looks to Apple for design inspiration so I'm calling this right now. If the NX has detachable controllers, they will be damn near identical to Apple's TV remote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or how about this old concept?

[Tickled_Pink]

@Tickled_Pink: Let us know how that goes. However they'll probably make you sign an NDA before they give you any hardware. If you "leak" that info online, they will hunt you down and flog you with big sticks.

 

Under the terms of their surrender after WWII they're not allowed to do that anymore. Feathers, yes. Sticks, no.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I have a hard time believing that detachable controllers on a portable console will have analog sticks, even if they're the discs type like on a 3DS. We know Nintendo looks to Apple for design inspiration so I'm calling this right now. If the NX has detachable controllers, they will be damn near identical to Apple's TV remote.

Dude I hope not. Tiny touchpads for analog inputs would suck. Nintendo knows this and will produce detachables with proper buttons. I'm guessing they use low profile thumb sticks or 3DS style sliders. Those work well enough.

 

Under the terms of their surrender after WWII they're not allowed to do that anymore. Feathers, yes. Sticks, no.

I would take the baton over feather torture any day. That's as bad as water boarding!

[Zookeeper]

I hope they go all-out on the Virtual Console or whatever they'll call it this time. And not do the 'pay extra to play a game you already bought on a different controller' stuff.

[StopDrop&Retro]

Dude I hope not. Tiny touchpads for analog inputs would suck. Nintendo knows this and will produce detachables with proper buttons. I'm guessing they use low profile thumb sticks or 3DS style sliders. Those work well enough.

 

I'm not saying it's what I'd like, just that it seems probable to me taking these rumors into account.

[Flojomojo]

Apple has walked back their dopey "all AppleTV games must be playable with only the stupid glass Siri Remote," meaning you can now require controllers to play.

 

I think Nintendo is smart enough not to go there in the first place.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Apple has walked back their dopey "all AppleTV games must be playable with only the stupid glass Siri Remote," meaning you can now require controllers to play.

 

I think Nintendo is smart enough not to go there in the first place.

A-men!

[Schizophretard]

Instead of retyping my thoughts I'll just post what I wrote on OUYAForum.com:

 

 

Assuming these and other rumors are true this is my thoughts on it:

For the most part I think I like the idea. The strategy of making it a handheld that you can put into console mode like a Shield Portable or Tablet makes sense. Microsoft never entered the handheld market and Sony is exiting but Nintendo is doing okay with the 3DS. But because of mobile gaming becoming more popular than any handheld console ever Nintendo has to do something big with their next handheld to make it competitive with gaming on phones and tablets.

If it has the Tegra X1 or possibly X2 in it then it would graphically blow away current phones and tablets and if it comes with 32GB cartridges then it can have much bigger games also because no one is going to fill up their 32GB MicroSD card for their phone just for one game while spending the time it would take to download that. Also, since most tablets don't come with a controller but the NX will that will allow more than just touch gaming. So, with just those things alone with Nintendo first party titles it would stay very relevant and competitive with the mobile market.

It likely still wouldn't get much third party support of games from the PS4 and XBOX ONE but with its form factor it probably wouldn't need to. The main reason people want a Nintendo console that is basically a PS4 with Nintendo games on it is because they want just one console instead of buying a Wii U for Nintendo tiles and a PS4 for third party titles. But with the NX being a little but pretty powerful handheld that has a tiny footprint for a dock it would be easier to justify the purchase of both,"My PS4 is my TV console but my NX is my handheld console for Nintendo games but if I want to I could still play it on my TV with that little dock or I could have my kids play with it as a handheld while I play my PS4." In other words, the justification for owning both wouldn't be much different than those who own both a PS4 and a tablet which I bet are a whole lot more than those that own both a PS4 and a Wii U.

However, they may still get a lot of third party support but from elsewhere for their online shop like Android and iOS controller games, indie Steam games, slightly older but not outdated games, games from PS4's and XBOX ONE's online stores, etc. Basically the kind of games that we wanted on or have on the OUYA and the kind of games that Nvidia has and wants for the Shield. In other words, there could be a strong indie console side to it. Especially since it would use the Tegra X1. That may make porting relatively easy. If people are seeing how well Nintendo titles run on a handheld with a Tegra X1 then manufacturers may think,"We got to add that into our next phones, tablets, Chromebooks, etc.!" and if there are all of these devices out there with the X1 in it then developers may think,"We need to make games for all these X1 devices and if we are going to do that then we might as well develop for the NX also since it has the same chip!"

Since it would act as both their console and handheld they wouldn't have to develop for both like they do with the Wii U and 3DS. They would just have to develop for one device which would mean more first party titles and getting them more quickly.

The X1 can do 4K. This would allow for 4K Netflix along with other high quality media streaming apps. It would be able to beat both the PS4 and XBOX ONE in this area. At least in their current iterations. And with either of them you can't watch movies in your lap with headphones on.

The X1 can run emulators of practically everything. So, that may add more to the Virtual Console and/or just emulate what is already there better.

If they market it right as being more of a handheld and successor to the 3DS than the Wii U then it would be almost immune to criticisms of not being as powerful as the XBOX ONE and PS4 because it would almost be like criticizing the 3DS for the same thing now. A better comparison would be comparing it to other mobile devices for handheld gaming which it would clearly be more powerful and suitable for gaming than any other phone or tablet. It would likely get a lot of the higher quality games from those platforms and run them better too. The same for high quality controller games on micro-consoles like the Fire TV for an example. If people say those games being on it would make it a tablet and/or a micro-console then that can be easily refuted by the facts that it is running Nintendo's own OS, that it is a handheld, that Nintendo has a history of making handhelds, and that they were making handhelds before tablets even existed by decades. And if someone says,"Well, that all is still proof that Nintendo is exiting the TV console market." then that can be refuted by,"No, because it can also be played on a TV. It is a balance between a merger of both their console and handheld efforts into one platform. That is something neither Sony or Microsoft are doing."

I also like the code name "NX". I think it should be the official name,"The Nintendo NX!". It has that NES or N64 feel to it mixed with something futuristic and mysterious. It is infinitely better than Wii and Wii U. Maybe in Japan those translate to sounding cool but not here.

Now to the things that I don't know if I would like:

I know it is just mock ups but the controller coming off the sides to form two seems odd to me. I don't get how that would work with multiplayer. A game that uses the whole controller for single player but half a controller for multiplayer? Would the multiplayer game be more simplified than the single player game? Or would it be more like you actually buy a second controller(two more halves), they click together to form a controller without the tablet part, then you take off the two halves on the tablet and click them together to form the first player controller, and then both players have two full controllers but share the tablet screen or TV? If it is this later one then I may like that but each player getting half a controller seems more like something you would do if you were playing more simplified games like an NES game on the Virtual Console than something you would do to have two player on a game that normally has both halves for single player. It would be cool though if they had different halves you could buy to build your own controller by mixing them. For an example, maybe you prefer both thumb sticks at the top, or the bottom, or diagonal. Customizing the controller in ways like that may be cool.

The size may be an issue. If it is something like the size of a Wii U controller then it wouldn't be putting it in your pocket mobile. It would probably be somewhere in the middle between putting a tablet in a fold up case and carrying around a small laptop. But there would also have to be some room for some carts and maybe some accessories. So, it seems like it would be more for playing on your couch, having your kids play it in a car, be easy to take to a friend's house, etc. but not something you can play everywhere like a phone.

Downloading games and online multiplayer would likely require WIFI because I doubt you will get one a data plan. That makes it a little less mobile than a phone.

I kind of wish it had two screens and was in 3D like a big ass 3DS.

Would the controller halves have separate batteries than the tablet and if so would the tablet charge them or would they charge separately?

Would the docking station require the tablet screen to be on it or would it link to it somehow to allow dual screen use?

 

Another thought I had after originally posting that is since they are using a powerful mobile SOC that gives them some insurance just in case they eventually take the SEGA route by not making hardware anymore because they would already have games optimized for mobile hardware. So, if that day comes then they would already have many games pretty much ready to port over to other mobile devices. Especially if the NX has a healthy back catalog of Virtual Console games that have been optimized to emulate well on the Tegra X1. In other words, they are putting themselves in a position where if they ever needed to they could quickly and easily port every game they ever made onto mobile devices. That may even be part of their plan,"If this doesn't work then plan B." Especially since from the descriptions of it so far it doesn't seem far from a Nvidia Shield Portable/Tablet type device with just the Nintendo name on it.

[MotoRacer]

Instead of retyping my thoughts I'll just post what I wrote on OUYAForum.com:

 

 

Another thought I had after originally posting that is since they are using a powerful mobile SOC that gives them some insurance just in case they eventually take the SEGA route by not making hardware anymore because they would already have games optimized for mobile hardware. So, if that day comes then they would already have many games pretty much ready to port over to other mobile devices. Especially if the NX has a healthy back catalog of Virtual Console games that have been optimized to emulate well on the Tegra X1. In other words, they are putting themselves in a position where if they ever needed to they could quickly and easily port every game they ever made onto mobile devices. That may even be part of their plan,"If this doesn't work then plan B." Especially since from the descriptions of it so far it doesn't seem far from a Nvidia Shield Portable/Tablet type device with just the Nintendo name on it.

 

I don't think they're quite ready for "plan B" yet. However, I could see this being done for things like Pokemon Go. Apps that will be on Nintendo's new portable platform along with mobile devices. Apparently, according to rumors, this thing is insanely easy to get ports and to port out to other platforms. If that's the case, I could see that being important for these mobile apps that catch the world by storm.

 

Honestly, with the device less than a year away, I'm not entirely sure why they're waiting so long to reveal it. I get that they don't want people to copy them, but the better question would be who? Sony is out of the portable game, and Microsoft could give a damn.

 

Furthermore, even if they wanted to copy it, by the time R&D was over, and the factories were prepped and ready for development, it would be at least a year after the NX's launch, even if they started immediately. Look at the PS Move as an example of how long it can take to respond to competition.

 

I think Nintendo fails to figure out sometimes that with it's "Blue Ocean" approach, they're in such different waters sometimes, they're practically on the other side of the world. That can be good when differentiating themselves, but it also means that it's much less likely their competition will try anything Nintendo is doing. So keeping the system hidden seems kinda like North Korea refusing to negotiate with Allied Forces. Basically, nobody gives a damn either way.

 

That said, I'm excited, but I'd be even more excited if this was revealed and publishers could start to be really open with their projects. I'm also a bit confused as to when they could reveal this thing on a prominent stage. By the time next E3 comes, the system will already be out. And most of the prominent conferences have already passed. Pretty confused, but hey... wouldn't be NIntendo if I wasn't. Haha.

 

I suppose in this day and age, you could pretty much reveal anything on any given Tuesday, and it would make the same splash in the water. It's not like the old days when conferences like E3 were the only way to get a spotlight on yourself. Still, you'd think they'd want a big avenue to really flex their muscles. Given Nintendo's terrible track record for live events, a Nintendo Direct does seem like the best move. I just hope they don't make us wait until winter to see it.

Edited July 31, 2016 by MotoRacer

[Schizophretard]

Honestly, with the device less than a year away, I'm not entirely sure why they're waiting so long to reveal it.

Part of the rumor is that it will be unveiled at the Tokyo Game Show expo in September. If that is the case then it might not be a coincidence that it is a month after Nvidia is suppose to unveil their new Tegra chip. In other words, the X1 may just be a fill in, the X2 or Tegra-Next or whatever it is going to be called may be what will be in it, and Nintendo can't unveil it until after Nvidia does so with the chip. In other words, Nvidia hypes up their new SOC like they always do and then Nintendo rides that hype by announcing that their console will have it. It could also be a not stepping on each others toes kind of thing by Nvidia not wanting them to hype up their console before they can hype up their new SOC or some other agreement between them.

 

Anyway, originally people thought that some of the coming soon games for the Shield were being ported by the original developers and then NVIDIA Shield Partners just published them to Google Play for the Shield. It turns out that Nvidia has been doing the porting themselves and recently changed the name NVIDIA Shield Partners to NVIDIA Lightspeed Studios. So, I think it would be cool if Nvidia's team ports some games over to the NX and/or works with developers to use Nvidia's tools to develop for it since it is their chip to help with third party support.

 

[MotoRacer]

Part of the rumor is that it will be unveiled at the Tokyo Game Show expo in September. If that is the case then it might not be a coincidence that it is a month after Nvidia is suppose to unveil their new Tegra chip. In other words, the X1 may just be a fill in, the X2 or Tegra-Next or whatever it is going to be called may be what will be in it, and Nintendo can't unveil it until after Nvidia does so with the chip. In other words, Nvidia hypes up their new SOC like they always do and then Nintendo rides that hype by announcing that their console will have it. It could also be a not stepping on each others toes kind of thing by Nvidia not wanting them to hype up their console before they can hype up their new SOC or some other agreement between them.

 

Anyway, originally people thought that some of the coming soon games for the Shield were being ported by the original developers and then NVIDIA Shield Partners just published them to Google Play for the Shield. It turns out that Nvidia has been doing the porting themselves and recently changed the name NVIDIA Shield Partners to NVIDIA Lightspeed Studios. So, I think it would be cool if Nvidia's team ports some games over to the NX and/or works with developers to use Nvidia's tools to develop for it since it is their chip to help with third party support.

 

 

This would make sense, actually, as you're right... people are commenting how the current X1 chip doesn't seem to be a permanent fixture in the unit, citing how it's cooling system is set up, etc.

 

Plus, we know that the NX will be able to do Breathe of the Wild better than the Wii U. The current X1 chip wouldn't be capable of that.

 

They're probably holding out due to the reasons you mentioned, good thinking! It's pretty amazing that we live in a time and place where a mobile chip will be able to pump out graphics that make the Wii U look like trash. The X2 should honestly actually start rivaling PS4 graphics, which is going to be amazing for something the size of a tablet.

 

Regardless of the route they take, I'm interested in this idea. I just hope it's the idea Nintendo decides on. I think they need their next system to be a home run of they are to continue with any confidence from their customer base.

 

I also wonder if this will usher in gorilla glass with a Nintendo product, seeming as it's leaked design shows no screen protection like the DS and 3DS enjoyed. That, and if this thing were more like a tablet with physical controls, it makes sense to build it as such. Not having to use a stylus or a fingernail on a touch screen will be nice, for once. I still can't believe they still went with resistive screens with the Wii U instead of capacitive. Though I suppose the system was already costing them too much to make. The fact it's STILL 300 dollars proves that. For goodness sake, the fat XB1 is now 249.

[Schizophretard]

Plus, we know that the NX will be able to do Breathe of the Wild better than the Wii U. The current X1 chip wouldn't be capable of that.

It might be. I think the X1 is probably more powerful than the Wii U. The earlier Tegra K1 compared to the PS3 and XBOX 360 like this:

 

 

 

And the X1 compares like this:

 

 

Look at how the X1 compares to the earlier K1:

 

 

Imagine where an X2 would be on that graph.

[keepdreamin]

I really don't get this device at all. So Nintendo's basically making a Nomad. It seems like it's a bit too big to be truly portable, and too small for multiplayer. The 3DS you can throw in a pocket/purse/backpack etc. This is another tablet sized device you're supposed to lug around, probably on the way to work or school carrying another dedicated laptop or tablet? And besides smash brothers or other fighting games, who is going to want to play two player on a tablet sized screen. Split screen mario kart? You'll want to hook it up to a tv anyway.

Edited July 31, 2016 by keepdreamin

[MotoRacer]

I really don't get this device at all. So Nintendo's basically making a Nomad. It seems like it's a bit too big to be truly portable, and too small for multiplayer. The 3DS you can throw in a pocket/purse/backpack etc. This is another tablet sized device you're supposed to lug around, probably on the way to work or school carrying another dedicated laptop or tablet? And besides smash brothers or other fighting games, who is going to want to play two player on a tablet sized screen. Split screen mario kart? You'll want to hook it up to a tv anyway.

 

To be fair, we don't know how big this will be. This could easily be the size of a 3DS NEW XL, from what I gather of the illustrations. That, and illustrations, like ones used for patents or idea concepts, often are horribly inaccurate when depicting size, shape, design cues, features etc.

 

That being said, I know nothing more than anyone else, and of course there's a chance it'll be the size of a tablet. And that would come with its own challenges and benefits.

 

But again, I'll take that all in when it comes. At this point, I think most people are only taking this leak for what it is....an idea on the concept of an ultra-powerful handheld that docks with a home TV as Nintendo's next gen machine.

 

In that simplistic analysis of the hardware, I think it's a huge step in the right direction. Everything else, from size, to detachable controllers... I'll take a wait and see approach, as I'm sure these illustrations do it no justice OR one or more of these ideas will be completely scrapped by the time of its release. If you saw my thread where I showed my extremely rare PS4 proto controller, the same controller leaked out at Kotaku before the PS4's release, you'll see just HOW much the simple idea of a controller can change just months before the retail units are pushed to stores. This illustration could be months old, and the hardware doesn't come out until Spring of next year. By then, the look and feel of the NX could overgo a complete redesign, as well as internal hardware (which Nintendo is notorious for changing up until the last few months before launch of their systems).

 

Basing any purchases off preliminary hardware at this point is silly. At this point, nothing more than entertaining the ideas as a fun thing to ponder of what is to come is really all we should take away from this.

[keepdreamin]

Well, size wise it would probably have to be at least as big as the Wii U pad if the idea is to set the screen down for 2player. I still don't see the use case. Trying to setup the screen in a comfortable way would pretty much rule out any 2player use during a trip. What are parents supposed to do, bungie cord this thing to a cars head rest for road trips? Why not just get each kid their own 3DS? No fighting, and they can easily play two player wirelessly, nobody is jockeying to see the screen.

 

I don't even care about the graphics debate everyone's obsessing with. The whole basic concept just seems flawed.

[jdollatari]

i'm not overly concerned as i still need a wii u to be honest but digitalfoundry looked at the tegra stuff and now the rumors are they will have time to go with the latest tegra. its nintendo it will be interesting and innovative and i look forward to it at some point

[phoenixdownita]

Is it me or big N played the "controller gimmick" since the N64?

 

The changes between the NES pad to the dogbone style to the SNES pad are pretty "evolutionary", then bam we get the tri-pronged N64 (I rarely ever used the left side to be fair ... and the slight asymmetric position of the hands is tiring for me after say 1 hour, finally C-up, C-down .... really? did they run out of letters?). Then the GC comes around with its more "reasonable for its time" design if it wasn't for that weird button layout (big A, small B, bean shaped X,Y. Did a design center puked on it or something? It's comfortable but I'd prefer a flat 4 PS/XB button layout) then bam the Wii with the Wii-mote then bam-bam-bam the Wii U with the tablet.

 

Somehow big N always seems to mess around with the controls, like an obsession, while the other 2 (Sony,MS) seem to evolve on their respective design with features that sometimes although depicted as revolutionary by the press are less useful than initially thought (six-axis gyro, pressure sensitive face buttons .....).

Both Sony/MS have experimented with body control like Kinect, PSMove [behold the icecream cone controller] .... but it seems the fad is winding down although it works beautifully for a certain type of games ... you know when you actually want to move around to begin with ..... and no little John there should not be running around in front of the sensor wielding a makeshift sword [let's hope he doesn't find the knives drawer] slashing down the furniture or really anything in its path.

 

Anyway the point being big N has been attempting to change the way we physically play games since the N64, sometimes just to be a little different (GC) some other to be very different (WiiMote, Wii U tablet [does it even have a proper name?]) so somehow I expect this NX to be in the same trajectory ... half revolutionary the other half just plain bad (for the hardcore gamer the controller gimmicks have not worked out that well since the GC, the fact that big N abandoned the trident shape of the N64 right after 1 iteration lead me to believe I wasn't the only one finding it ..... uncomfortable, unappealing, neither here nor there).

[Andromeda Stardust]

Well, size wise it would probably have to be at least as big as the Wii U pad if the idea is to set the screen down for 2player. I still don't see the use case. Trying to setup the screen in a comfortable way would pretty much rule out any 2player use during a trip. What are parents supposed to do, bungie cord this thing to a cars head rest for road trips? Why not just get each kid their own 3DS? No fighting, and they can easily play two player wirelessly, nobody is jockeying to see the screen.

 

I don't even care about the graphics debate everyone's obsessing with. The whole basic concept just seems flawed.

The pad screen is for playing solo around the house. You dock it to a HDTV and detach the side controllers or use PRO controllers for multiplayer (I hope this thing lets people use their old PRO controllers when docked).

 

It's also plausible the NX comes in two SKUs. A big super duper xL tablet sized for lounging around the house and a miniature phone sized one for on the go. Maybe the phone size will have sliding or folding side controls for easy storage to slide into purses/pockets.

[leods]

When the library of new games on the NX is better than the library on the Classic NES mini thing I'll buy one.

[MotoRacer]

When the library of new games on the NX is better than the library on the Classic NES mini thing I'll buy one.

So it needs to have a better batch of games than 30+ year old titles I already own and played to death? That shouldn't take too long

[Mord]

So it needs to have a better batch of games than 30+ year old titles I already own and played to death? That shouldn't take too long

 

I'd say that depends on whether or not you consider the latest variant of those 30+ year old games to count towards the "new games" or not.

[hepcat]

I have just two questions about the NX:

 

1. Is it region-free?

2. Will an Ouendan/EBA sequel be released for it?

 

If the answers to both the above questions are yes, it's day one purchase. If no, it's an "eh, maybe someday" purchase.

Edited August 1, 2016 by hepcat