Arcade Controls: Crimp vs Solder

[Andromeda Stardust]

So I'm in the process of building a small batch of cigar box Atari controllers. These will be available for sale shortly.

 

Currently I am at the point where holes have been drilled and boxes populated with parts, but nothing wired yet. I'm currently splitting hairs as to how to approach the wiring process.

 

For my personal projects, I have always been most comfortable simply soldering directly to the lugs. I take a wire, loop it through the eyelet on the spade, and apply 60/40 rosin core solder. This creates a secure and permanent connection. If I want to replace something, I reheat the connection until the solder flows, and a simple tug on the wire pulls it right out of the eyelet. To me, it's a fairly efficient process to both make and break a connection in this manner.

 

However everyone is different, and some people are very uncomfortable holding a solder iron. My previous Atari, NES, and SNES arcade controllers, as well as three cigar box prototypes, were all done with solder. However last year when I built my Porta Pi MAME cab and Fight Stick v3, I switched over to crimp connectors. I bought a stripper/crimper tool (with the "football" shaped holes) and a baggie of 50 female .187" crimp connectors. I practiced a bit, wasting several connectors until I got confident crimping wires.

 

Even though I'm capable of doing both, for me, solder seems far more secure and less material to buy. The solder can have a single failure mode, the joint where the flexible wire meets the inflexible solder wick, and if using stranded copper wire, still takes quite a bit of back and forth movement in order to break. Rarely excessive heating can lead to part failure, but this tends to be rare with quality components. A regulated soldering iron such as Weller not only reaches temperature more rapidly but also tends not to overheat.

 

Crimp connectors seem to have a number of failure modes. Firstly, a crimp may look fine but when given the "tug test" simply comes loose. I've wasted a lot of connectors this way. Secondly, overclamping can result in structural compromise of the connector. Twisted pairs of wire (ie daisy chain in the ground loop) may unbind resulting in loose end. The connector can simply fall off the spade, especially if it had to be jimmied on. This can be fixed with pliers if caught, but they can come loose long after everything is double checked and assembled. The reverse is also true. If it's too tight, the stress of sliding it on can potentially damage the spade or switch.

 

Again, I'm building these things to sell to end user. A crimped connector makes it easy for the end user to swap components or repair or replace a switch if needed. I think the likelyhood of a switch or part failing is low, but I would want the end user to have the option of modding if they choose. Conversely, I feel there is less chance that a wire comes loose in the first place if I just permanently solder them.

 

I stayed up most of last night Googling "Crimp vs solder" and have seen vastly differing opinions from former military and civilian engineers, to hobbiests, to auto/marine/aerospace applications, and nearly everyone swears by either solder or crimp as to which is best or more reliable. There are military vets who soldered everything and engineers who crimped everything, but it seemed as if everyone was comfortable doing whichever type of connection was the policy at the company they worked for, or in the case of hobbiests, whether the crimper or iron was the first tool they picked up.

 

Also some people have spent fortunes on fancy solder stations or ratcheting crimp gear and swear by them, while others simply pick up the el cheapo tool from Radioshack or Harbor Freight. I am NOT planning on spending triple digits on a crimp tool. That's just ludicrus...

 

I won't deny that it's possible my tools or technique may be lacking, just as a beginner with a solder iron may make cold joints or solder bridges. I was thinking about building the wire harnesses and it may be more efficient if I build them assembly line style with crimp connectors, then thread the wires through the hand routed trapezoidal holes the Dsub connectors mount in. The Dsubs have the solder cups but if I build them outside the boxes with crimps on the ends of the wire leads, I won't need to use the iron around the boxes themselves. I'd simply build eight harnesses, label the wires, thread through the hole, and connect the spades.

 

But more confusing, in the cigar box poll, a number of people voted "solder", "crimp", and "I don't care." Crimp had a short lead over solder, but neither had near a majority factoring in the "I don't care" category. I need to consider the customer here. I am more comfortable soldering and believe it to be most secure, but crimps would be far easier for the end user to service.

 

Sorry for the very long rant. I need other AAers input as far as personal experience working with solders and crimps, be it hobby or job related, arcade, automotive, or other application. Which do you prefer and which should I ultimately use if I plan to sell projects?

[+save2600]

Only time to use crimp/spade connectors is if you're lazy, in a hurry or plan on swapping components out often enough to where you would enjoy the ease of such a quick connect and disconnect.

 

-edit-

 

Poor solder skills aren't really even an excuse as it's a fairly simple task to perform with an iron or a gun. And actually, wouldn't necessarily do or recommend the "through the eyelet" thing either. Tin the leads with solder first, then apply your iron/gun to the connection. A great way to solder something like this on the quick and is extremely rugged and durable.

 

Always prefer a good solder connection myself, but will admit to purchasing a multicade control panel from Arcadeshop recently that has crimp connectors throughout. Am I going to bother to strip the wires and solder directly to the switches? Hell no. Would I have done so originally had I assembled it myself? Hell yeah.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Only time to use crimp/spade connectors is if you're lazy, in a hurry or plan on swapping components out often enough to where you would enjoy the ease of such a quick connect and disconnect. Poor solder skills aren't even an excuse as it's a fairly simple task to perform with an iron or a gun.

 

Always prefer a good solder connection myself, but will admit to purchasing a multicade control panel from Arcadeshop recently that has crimp connectors throughout. Am I going to bother to strip the wires and solder directly to the switches? Hell no. Would I have done so originally had I assembled it originally myself? Hell yes.

See, that's the thing. To me, soldering is far more efficient. And the wires get stripped regardless of whether you solder or crimp. Thanks for the feedback btw.

 

FYI, this is the tool I use. It has a ratcheting mechanism for stripping wires (it is an awesome stripper that works across a wide range of wire gauges) but just a single "football" shaped crimphole with all three color dots on it.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3099748

[+save2600]

See, that's the thing. To me, soldering is far more efficient. And the wires get stripped regardless of whether you solder or crimp. Thanks for the feedback btw.

 

FYI, this is the tool I use. It has a ratcheting mechanism for stripping wires but had the old fashioned squeeze crimps.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3099748

 

...bother to cut and strip the wires *after* the fact they already assembled it using the crimp method I meant.

 

Machine I put it in is for my own collection, so will just leave it and deal with any problems that may arise over time. I don't beat on or hammer away at these things when playing anyway, so the lame ass crimp connections *should* last for a good while. haha

 

My brothers' Street Fighter II cab with crimp connections OTOH, had to make a few repairs to his control panel over the years. Removed the crimp shit and soldered directly to the switches.

[Osgeld]

Problem with crimp is a lot of people use those crappy stripper crimper bolt cutter wire cutter and pliers all in one stamped sheet metal pile of crap, and it's impossible to consistently make good crimps

 

 

A step up from that is those large wire cutter crimpers.made out of forged steel and has a big tooth in the crimper part, those are decent and cost 6-12 bucks

 

 

But the best and easiest way are some nice n expensive ratcheting 3m crimpers those are freaking awesome

 

 

But if all you have is the sheet metal cheapies you are better off soldering, either wire direct to term or solder the stupid crimp connectors on the wire

Edited October 2, 2016 by Osgeld

[RevEng]

I see the case for crimp connections in arcade cabinets that would see all kinds of abuse by arcade customers. I don't see the need in a device heading to someone's home. Most people are buying this sort of controller because they like the arcade experience as a player, and either don't know how to wire one up themselves or couldn't be bothered. Either way, precious few will be looking to mod it.

 

I also think the sort of person that might want to swap out buttons is probably capable of (de)soldering wires, or at least capable of acquiring the skill. (de)soldering wires to connectors is a lot easier than (de)soldering components to PCB.

[fujidude]

Personally, for attaching bare wire to a lug I prefer crimped spade. However, I like to apply solder to the wire in the crimp. I also apply a bit of Caig Labs ProGold on the lug to resist corrosion and provide great conductivity.

[icemanxp300]

I was leaning towards soldering. Could you show a pic of exactly what you mean by looping through eyelet as compared to crimping?

[Andromeda Stardust]

Problem with crimp is a lot of people use those crappy stripper crimper bolt cutter wire cutter and pliers all in one stamped sheet metal pile of crap, and it's impossible to consistently make good crimps

 

 

A step up from that is those large wire cutter crimpers.made out of forged steel and has a big tooth in the crimper part, those are decent and cost 6-12 bucks

 

 

But the best and easiest way are some nice n expensive ratcheting 3m crimpers those are freaking awesome

 

 

But if all you have is the sheet metal cheapies you are better off soldering, either wire direct to term or solder the stupid crimp connectors on the wire

How much does a set like the bottom image cost?

 

Mine claimed to be ratcheting when I bought it, but the only ratcheting part is the on the one-size-fits-all wire stripper and I absolutely love this tool for stripping wires. They also had the bolt cutter / strippers at the local store, but those were just sheet metal with holes. I may go over to Harbor Freight and check them out. If they cost more than $30, forget it.

 

Also for the record, I'm using 24 awg and folding the exposed wire over in half when I insert them, to double the gauge to 22, or 20awg equivalent with the daisy chains. Going exactly by the PDF instruction manual for the Porta Pi assembly, I had up to 30% of little red 16-22awg insinuated crimps fail on me when I built my Raspberry Pi harness and had to order additional bulk connectors on top of what the kit shipped with. My work flow was using the football hole at first, but those didn't hold, so I followed the incomplete football crimp by cramming the insulated crimp into the tight non-insul horseshoe, compressing the dimple to the point of denting through the sheath. Oftentimes the crimp would hold but twist sideways in the horseshoe, resulting in a crimp that was compressed more on one side than the other. Since I was folding over the 24awg wires in half to increase mass, usually these maligned crimps were secure on one side or the other and held up to the tug test. Even after I assembled the Porta-Pi cab, I booted game up one afternoon and had an issue with Pacman where I could not turn left or right (I forget which it was). I lifted the control panel and sure enough one of the female spades had just slid off the lug. I secured it back on and it slid off again with little effort, so I squeezed the spade with a pair of needle nose and then it secured tightly and I never had any more issues with it.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I was leaning towards soldering. Could you show a pic of exactly what you mean by looping through eyelet as compared to crimping?

I don't have any pics, but basically I make a fish hook out of the wire and pass it through the eye hole on the spade lug. Then I pinch it with needle nose pliers. If I'm doing a daisy chain (ground loop, etc), I attach both wires before soldering. Press the soldering iron against the joint to heat it, then apply fine rosin core 60/40 solder liberally to the joint. Experts say you should remove the iron from the joint before applying solder to prolong tip life, but my personal experience is that rarely works.

 

Most irons have replaceable tips, though Radio Shack no longer carries the Weller tips even though I bought my Weller iron there. My Weller tip which I've been using a couple years is a bit blunted now to do fine work but it still works great for hookups. Though it may be tempting, you should never try to file down or sharpen a tip. I did that once and it takes the alloy off exposing bare copper underneath. This makes it very difficult to wet or flow solder, essentially trashing it, and a blunt tip that works is better than a sharp tip that doesn't.

 

I have been using stranded 24awg which is a bit easier to thread through the eyelets compared to the usual 22awg which is the smallest stranded hookup wire that Radio Shack and most other stores carry. 24 awg is also small enough gauge that if you twist the strands together and tin them, they will fit into a breadboard. You don't want to solder solid wire to the lugs as solid core will break with minimal flexing. Buy stranded hookup wire and you're safe.

 

 

Personally, for attaching bare wire to a lug I prefer crimped spade. However, I like to apply solder to the wire in the crimp. I also apply a bit of Caig Labs ProGold on the lug to resist corrosion and provide great conductivity.

I tried this once with uninsulated spade connectors and the solder flowed into the knurled edge that grabs the spade, making it impossible to fit properly.

[Osgeld]

How much does a set like the bottom image cost?

 

 

Oh not that much, looks like waytek wire has them for just shy of 300$, which is why I use the ones at work, were we tend to crimp a metric ton of wire for test equipment, robots and whatnot

 

I am sure you can find something similar on the market for much less, though the ones we have I know just myself have done a 3-4 bags of 100 terminals with in the last year, so its heavy duty pro grade crap

Edited October 2, 2016 by Osgeld

[Andromeda Stardust]

I see the case for crimp connections in arcade cabinets that would see all kinds of abuse by arcade customers. I don't see the need in a device heading to someone's home. Most people are buying this sort of controller because they like the arcade experience as a player, and either don't know how to wire one up themselves or couldn't be bothered. Either way, precious few will be looking to mod it.

 

I also think the sort of person that might want to swap out buttons is probably capable of (de)soldering wires, or at least capable of acquiring the skill. (de)soldering wires to connectors is a lot easier than (de)soldering components to PCB.

You make a valid point as well. People that like to tweak stuff and mod or exchange parts out are DIYers at heart and would probably just select an enclosure and populate the components themselves. I'm planning on making a cigar box joystick Instructable at some point because it's not a difficult project IMO. Once I saw a guy on a forum somewhere use a shoebox as an enclosure. I cringed a bit because the guy spent all that effort and money to built a fight stick from good parts only to stick it in a thin cardboard box which was already falling apart when he took the photo.

[Papa]

Crimping sounds like it will avoid a LOT of future problems. If someone buys one and a button doesn't work or something it would likely just be either a switch swap-out or a loose crimp. No soldering would be required for the end user. I always use crimps to the switch and solder to the boards in my custom cabinets. If an end user likes to play around with button colors, arrangements, stick choices, etc., it helps not to immediately need soldering equipment/skills.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

 

Oh not that much, looks like waytek wire has them for just shy of 300$, which is why I use the ones at work, were we tend to crimp a metric ton of wire for test equipment, robots and whatnot

 

I am sure you can find something similar on the market for much less, though the ones we have I know just myself have done a 3-4 bags of 100 terminals with in the last year, so its heavy duty pro grade crap

I can see a professional paying $300 for a tool used on a daily basis, but not for hobby use.

 

If I were going to spend $300-$400 on a tool, I would get a portable table-top saw, perfect for ripping 12-18" panels for use as custom enclosures. Using a circular saw to cut precisely measured rectangular boards is doable but a royal PITA (you can build a rip guide from scrap boards that uses the edge of the saw) and requires precise clamping and measuring of every single cut. They were primarily designed to rip 2x4s and stuff out in the field.

[Osgeld]

Totally agree what I have at home is the middle option and as long as you line everything up its pretty darn good

 

Do more than 4 or 5 crimps in a row your hands are going to hurt though

[fujidude]

For crimping I really like these, and for stripping I like these. Those crimpers are not really priced appropriately for hobby/home use, but the strippers are. I own a pair of the strippers and love them. I have used the crimpers at work and they are friggin' awesome too (but I let work buy those).

Edited October 2, 2016 by fujidude

[Osgeld]

yea auto strippers of any shape or form are usually a good thing when you have more than 1 or 2 wires to do ... just avoid the plastic ones, they tend to snap

[+poobah]

So, because i can be a tick neurotic, After I crimp, I put a wee bit of solder at the crimped end so that wires will never pull out. Leaves a nice rugged spade connector, and is probably massive overkill

[Andromeda Stardust]

So, because i can be a tick neurotic, After I crimp, I put a wee bit of solder at the crimped end so that wires will never pull out. Leaves a nice rugged spade connector, and is probably massive overkill

Good idea, but you can't do that with sleeved connectors. Also as I mentioned I tried it in the past and the solder flowed into the connector itself obstructing proper mechanical fit.

[TheDevil'sCompass]

Soldering is typically more permanent and secure. I've had far more crimp connections that have had issues than soldered connections. It's too easy to make a bad crimp that initially seems good. Since you're soldering to the connectors neither soldering nor crimping would pose any problems if a user wanted to swap out buttons.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I'm still leaning towards soldering these things but haven't made up my mind yet. I did however pick up a proper ratcheting crimp tool at Harbor Freight today for $14.99:

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/ratcheting-crimping-tool-97420.html

 

I still can't see why people would pay $300 for one of these like in some of the photos posted online. Well maybe $300 for a hand tool makes sense if you work at NASA...

[Osgeld]

I might go pick some of those up if you rate them good, they look decent enough

 

and the 300$ thing, its a pro tool for making a metric butt ton of crimps, it has features like holding the connector in place, auto trimming, insulation forming etc, its handy when you do it a ton ... like one of my test stations at work has ~140 crimped connectors going to screw blocks (for debug and maintenance), and I made 3 of those stations last year, have 6 in total.... it makes it a lot faster with the features and ratcheting in general doesn't destroy your hands

 

but yea no one needs that at home, those HF ones probably do just as good once you get the details down

 

on a side note the horrible fright assorted crimp connector kits are good value for money if you just want a good assortment of crimp contacts, otherwise buy exactly what you need in bulk online

 

edit edit, I pick on HF but I bet half my tools are from there (including a nice tabletop bandsaw and drill press) , the other half are the Lowes "blue hawk" brand which is about on the same level of quality and price

Edited October 4, 2016 by Osgeld

[Andromeda Stardust]

Harbor Freight had some assorted crimp connector kits but the only spades were 1/4" and a ton of junk in the kits I can't use. Complete waste of money IMO.

 

I'll definitely get bulk connectors online. I'll need about 100 female 3/16 (.187) and around 50 .110". Well technically I'll need 64x .187" female spades and 24x .110" female spades assuming I don't waste any which is unlikely. Always buy a few more than you need; LOL! Can spare a few extras at 10 cents each. But still that's $15 more to spend (+s/h) if I go crimp. I've got tons of 60/40 solder stocked up so it's essentially free.

[Osgeld]

yea always get a few more than you need, you WILL screw up once or twice, and uncrimping a connector cost way much more in time and aggervation than having a few left over ... which you will use at some point down the road

[icemanxp300]

Sounds like crimping is a waste of money and materials. You have to buy the connectors and a tool just to have a connection that is prone to going bad when you could instead just dab a few spots of solder on it.

 

Seems like a no brainer to me. Faster, cheaper, better. If you are solely doing this for the end user, I wouldn't.

 

I recently had a power glove sensor bar where the pins inside the controller port end were crimped and it did not work correctly. I found out one of the pins while crimped had zero connection (don't ask me how). At any rate I simply burned away a little insulation that was around that crimped wire and soldered it to the crimped pin and it worked good. I'm still baffled as to how a stripped wire crimped to a metal pin had no connection but whatever. I guess it got oxidized or something.

 

The only reason I can see crimping is for end user if they ever need to swap that wire out. Which if they were going to do it right they would solder it anyhow. They could always just cut your soldered wire and crimp it to another wire. The only scenario anyone should have to use a crimp on that wire is if the solder joint failed or the wire broke off near the solder joint and they are unable to solder.