Arcade Controls: Crimp vs Solder

[fujidude]

Yep, for connections that are never intended to be disturbed or have any strain applied, a proper solder job is all that is needed. But, crimps come in if someone is not skilled enough to do a proper solder job, or the connection may need to be broke and remade in the future, or there is inadequate strain relief on the soldered wires.

[Osgeld]

or your doing hundereds of them in a wiring harness, that is not in the same area as the intended object, there's lots of reasons crimps have their place, in a small workshop its just a choice (really the cost of a bag of terminals and a crimper is about the same cost as a small spool of solder and a low end iron)

[Andromeda Stardust]

Okay guys I have a question. Sorry complete crimp n00b here. It appears the left or top side of the tool has the three dots on it. The right or back side of the tool has no marks. When I insert a crimp connector, which side should the wire go into and which side should the connector go? The tool is not symmetrical. Also do the female spade knurls face up or down? My tool came with no instructions.

[Osgeld]

The color of dots coraspond to the connector red red etc

 

You orient the tool where the open end where the wire goes is on the same side as the dots

 

And don't bother with the wire and connector at once. Get the connector lined up on the tool and apply pressure so it holds it snigly, and won't rotate... but its not crushing the inner metal tube, then add wire

 

That will save your sanity

[Andromeda Stardust]

Thank you!

 

It took me a while to find a no BS tutorial on YT. Your response seems to agree with this video:

 

Obviously he is using butt connectors which alignment needs the split to be on the top or the bottom when pressure is applied. It's not really an issue with the spades as long as it is inserted horizontally with the wire on the dot side. Lotta misinformation on the internet and I gotta weed it out.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I tend to do a little of both. As an example I will always try and use crimp connections or spade terminals on lots of places on an arcade cab, because that is what was originally used all over these things?! But seriously, in my case I use a combo of both. Here is an example:

 

When I change out the power cord in an arcade machine I will use the spade connectors to make it easier to swap out the power cord or the AC terminal block..etc in the cab. But I do NOT just crimp them on. No. When I can I will strip back the wiring, run it through the spade or connector and then solder it down. I then will crimp it down tight after. This provides a nice tight not likely to ever come loose easily connection from the connectors and still gives the ease of quickly disconnecting things when needed.

 

Another great example of this, is with certain ground wires etc that are attached to the monitors and chassis wherein you haven't a choice but to cut the wire somewhere in order to remove everything for servicing etc. So the quick disconnects and spade type connections are awesome for this, but do try and solder the wire internally if at all possible to be sure.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I got a new Cherry modded Sanwa to toy with and wanted to test ride it so I stuffed it into my early cigar box prototype. Also my supply of female disconnects came with this stick as well. I had my soldering iron heated up and ready to start removing wires off the old joystick before I had an epiphany. This likely won't be the last time I will want to move the Sanwa. So I clipped the soldered wires off and crimped them. Nice, efficient. Twice I held the crimp tool with the dots facing the wrong way and I had a bad crimp with wire that slid out of the sheath. No prob, just stuck the wire back in, flipped the tool around, and recrimped. Not a single wasted connector, yay!

 

This is from a cheap $14.99 ratcheting crimp tool I bought at Harbor Freight, not some $300 expensive Pro tool. And it works. Flawlessly.

[fujidude]

This is from a cheap $14.99 ratcheting crimp tool I bought at Harbor Freight, not some $300 expensive Pro tool. And it works. Flawlessly.

 

So you keep saying. You can stop bashing the Klein Tools $300 one any time now, as I feel substantially punished by now for daring to mention it in a post.

 

Anyway, if you recall I also said it was too rich for my blood, and let work buy it. I'll also add, that even for a professional tool I think it is over-priced. I think $60-$70 would be more than adequate a price to pay for it. Especially since their Katapult wire stripper is every bit as quality of a tool, and is in fact more complex too. And it's under $30!

 

For crimping when at home, I have been using a tool about as close to sad as you can get. Now that is not the exact one I have, but mine is about equally lame. I've had it since a time when money came much harder for me, and never bothered to upgrade. I don't do a lot of crimping really, and I have always gotten by with the cheapie.

 

Anyway... you should be happy to learn that I went to my own local "Horrible Fate" (chuckle snicker) and picked up the same $14.99 ratcheting crimper that you did and has been mentioned here. Of course after doing so, then I start to find things like this one. It's not ratcheting, but my hands are very strong so it's rather inconsequential. Irwin stuff is no Klein, but they're not too bad. They're always at least as good as the usable Chinese stuff, and usually quite a lot better. I realize that a fair amount of U.S. tool brands are now made in China, but they are made to standards and quality control that the run of the mill Chinese stuff is not. Anyway, this $20 Irwin tool could replace both my new Horrible Fate $15 crimper, and my $25 Klein stripper. Anyway, the Klein stripper is really, really sweet, so I'm not going to pout... too much.

[Osgeld]

You can stop bashing the Klein Tools $300 one any time now, as I feel substantially punished by now for daring to mention it in a post.

 

Think he is referencing the 289$ 3m's I mentioned being stupid great

 

and they are, in fact I got the Harbor freight ones for home use, cause there's no way in hell im buying the 3M or even Klein ones when I can make this work .... but yea in reality its about like driving a Nissan Versa and driving a Mercedes‑Maybach, they both get you there in the end, but the versa hurts your ass after a very short time, and takes a lot longer to get to the end goal

Edited October 16, 2016 by Osgeld

[Andromeda Stardust]

I'm not sure why you claim the Harbor Freght tool hurts. I have large man hands, and yes, it does require a firm grip to use but won't release until you've applied the necessary pressure. It doesn't "hurt" at all, and far less force required than those stupid football crimps that that don't even work out of the box. For me with large man hands, it's no problem, but I can see how a 70+ year old woman with Arthur knocking on her door would have issues using it.

 

Also for what it was worth, the tool had some minor cosmetic scratches on it inside the blister pack. It's as if these tools traveled down a conveyor belt and were allowed to clank against each other before being packaged. They had about three or four of them in stock and all had minor cosmetic scratches to the black oxide coating.

 

@fujidude: BTW, I am not bashing pro level tools, but I cannot see why any hand operated tool should cost $300 plus unless you work for NASA or somewhere that requires completely failesafe operation. I'll admit the Harbor Freight tool may not be the best there is, and it's a free country so a company can charge whatever they want for product. Like if you're building a sound system, you can wire your speakers with 14awg lamp cord or use $1000 per foot exotics. The difference will not be audible since the only influence on sound is the resistance of the wire, ie larger gauge is better. But if someone wanted to sell high end placebos for $1000, have at it. I am sure there's a buyer somewhere. I am also free to decide what I am willing to pay for a good or service, and at $15 the Harbor Freight tool was half of my max budget ($30) for what I felt was a reasonable price to pay.

 

I did recently rewire a joystick I made and replaced the soldered wires with crimp ends, so if I want to swap out again, I can do so without issue. I'll definitely be using crimps for the cigar box sales in case people want to tweak them.

[Osgeld]

I'm not sure why you claim the Harbor Freght tool hurts.

 

I didnt I claimed the nissan versa hurts

[fujidude]

@fujidude: BTW, I am not bashing pro level tools, but I cannot see why any hand operated tool should cost $300 plus unless you work for NASA or somewhere that requires completely failesafe operation. I'll admit the Harbor Freight tool may not be the best there is, and it's a free country so a company can charge whatever they want for product. Like if you're building a sound system, you can wire your speakers with 14awg lamp cord or use $1000 per foot exotics. The difference will not be audible since the only influence on sound is the resistance of the wire, ie larger gauge is better. But if someone wanted to sell high end placebos for $1000, have at it. I am sure there's a buyer somewhere. I am also free to decide what I am willing to pay for a good or service, and at $15 the Harbor Freight tool was half of my max budget ($30) for what I felt was a reasonable price to pay.

 

I hear ya, but let's be clear, you are bashing the price of pro tools, and then minimizing their advantages. I agree, $300 (or even $249) is way more than I will pay for a crimper. Where I disagree though, is your implication that the relationship between Harbor Freight level tools and pro tools, is similar to the relationship between average speaker wire and $1000 exotics. In tools, the better design, materials, and quality of manufacture does result in a superior product. And that's without regard to what price is asked. When it comes to exotically priced av cables, it's just pure, unadulterated, snake oil.

 

Anyway, sometimes the pro tools are substantially better, and sometimes maybe just a bit better. Sometimes they are priced more to reasonably reflect the extra cost of manufacture, and sometimes they are priced way high. So yeah, depending on what is quality is available, at what price, and the demands of the user, it can very as to what is a better choice.

[bah]

At my company we do both. Often crimps vs solder is a matter of preference. One general comment is that solder is not a mechanical joint, that is why you should put the wire through the hole and double back on itself to give some mechanical strength. Solder wicks up along the individual strands near the joint. That is why a soldered wire feels stiffer and will break if flexed before a crimped wire will. Solder joints are inherently gas tight if both surfaces are properly wetted. Crimp joints are also gas tight but it is a fine line between properly formed and over formed. An over formed crimp is one where the wire has been severely crushed and work hardened so it breaks easily.

 

We predominantly use crimps for connecting cables where a user pulls and flexes the cable near the attaching point. Board level joints are mostly solder with other short jumper connection being either based soley on cost/time.

Edited October 19, 2016 by bah

[CMR]

I prefer to solder my junk. If I did use a crimp, I would probably solder it to the wire like someone else mentioned. I've personally never had much luck with crimps.

[Osgeld]

I prefer to solder my junk.

 

Doesn't that burn?

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Doesn't that burn?

I have no idea. I don't go near my "junk" with those...

[Newsdee]

I crimp my controllers. The tool is not expensive and it's nice to know you can swap buttons anytime you want.

It's a bit of a pain to do a bunch at once, but it avoids having to get all my soldering gear setup.

 

I also use these Eurostyle "two-screw barrier strips" (not sure if there's a better name) to remap anything easily:

http://www.molex.com/molex/products/family?key=eurostyle_twoscrew_barrier_strips&channel=products&chanName=family&pageTitle=Introduction

 

Of course it's more bulky, and I've had cases of cables becoming loose, but it's not a major problem to fix as it happens.

 

What I do solder are connections to the DB9 / DB15 terminals, using the ones with the litle "u" connectors.

I've found recently some boards with the terminals mounted and screws connectors,but didn't use them on anything yet.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Newsdee

[Andromeda Stardust]

I put barrier strips in my Cthulhu Fight stick. I installed more strips than I ended up using because I originally planned on adding Yobo SNES and Genny PCBs and running them to a 25-pin header along with the Cthulhu. The resulting rats nest proved too much though and I eventually scrapped the clone PCBs.

 

So I've got extra terminals mounted in the sidewalls that don't go anywhere. And I still don't have a proper 6-button Genny stick. But at least I can play SFII properly on my Turbografx using the Cthulhu multiconsole PCB...

[Osgeld]

I much prefer the euro style strips than the "standard" ones, the Euro style has a tube and a block which clamps the wire down so bare wires are no issue, normal ones are litterly screws into a block so you have to form hook shapes with the wire, and using stranded wire is sloppy at best, dangerous at worse

 

so you end up using fork or spade or Y crimp connectors to secure things down... does this matter in a arcade controller, not really as long as you get a connection. It does matter in the situation that I had at work where I was sending 67 amps down 12, 14 guage wires and didnt want a crappy connection causing a fire ... so I crimped both ends with spade connectors and used a tourqe wrench

 

and that's pretty mild compared to some of the test fixtures I have made (one of which where a 300 amp 24 volt power supply just barely made the requirements runing on 220v AC hehe)

Edited November 6, 2016 by Osgeld

[fujidude]

I much prefer the euro style strips than the "standard" ones, the Euro style has a tube and a block which clamps the wire down so bare wires are no issue, normal ones are litterly screws into a block so you have to form hook shapes with the wire, and using stranded wire is sloppy at best, dangerous at worse

 

so you end up using fork or spade or Y crimp connectors to secure things down... does this matter in a arcade controller, not really as long as you get a connection. It does matter in the situation that I had at work where I was sending 67 amps down 12, 14 guage wires and didnt want a crappy connection causing a fire ... so I crimped both ends with spade connectors and used a tourqe wrench

 

and that's pretty mild compared to some of the test fixtures I have made (one of which where a 300 amp 24 volt power supply just barely made the requirements runing on 220v AC hehe)

 

Something on the order of this? I'm not sure it's really a Euro thing, but I agree with you on how well they work.

[Osgeld]

yea I use those on PCB's all the time, its the same concept you have a screw that drives a block that clamps the bare wire, the "euro" strips are the same thing but double sided and typically for larger wires than board to board connects

[Andromeda Stardust]

I much prefer the euro style strips than the "standard" ones, the Euro style has a tube and a block which clamps the wire down so bare wires are no issue, normal ones are litterly screws into a block so you have to form hook shapes with the wire, and using stranded wire is sloppy at best, dangerous at worse

 

so you end up using fork or spade or Y crimp connectors to secure things down... does this matter in a arcade controller, not really as long as you get a connection. It does matter in the situation that I had at work where I was sending 67 amps down 12, 14 guage wires and didnt want a crappy connection causing a fire ... so I crimped both ends with spade connectors and used a tourqe wrench

 

and that's pretty mild compared to some of the test fixtures I have made (one of which where a 300 amp 24 volt power supply just barely made the requirements runing on 220v AC hehe)

Well I don't think arcade buttons can handle "welding" current levels. Those poor micro switches would melt or smolder instantly.

 

Also IIRC per NEC rules in house wiring (typically 15 amp) use 14-awg wire minimum. I imagine 300 amps though a 12-awg stranded copper lead would get hot fast.

[Osgeld]

Well I don't think arcade buttons can handle "welding" current levels. Those poor micro switches would melt or smolder instantly.

 

Also IIRC per NEC rules in house wiring (typically 15 amp) use 14-awg wire minimum. I imagine 300 amps though a 12-awg stranded copper lead would get hot fast.

 

oh on that project the wire used was measured in CM and it was less than 2 foot before it hit 4 inch wide 2 inch thick copper bus bars

 

had to do durability test on 80 amp relays at full contact load, you should have seen the resistors I used, ended up being somewhere a 1600 watt resistor bank, each element was bout 2 inches in diamater and 8 inches long ... thats a big resistor ...

Edited November 6, 2016 by Osgeld

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

oh on that project the wire used was measured in CM and it was less than 2 foot before it hit 4 inch wide 2 inch thick copper bus bars

 

had to do durability test on 80 amp relays at full contact load, you should have seen the resistors I used, ended up being somewhere a 1600 watt resistor bank

Like 2by4s? Solid or hollow? That's a lot of copper LMAO.

[Osgeld]

yea it cost a pile of money, solid btw

 

decade later still works perfectly with 240 amps running though it damn near 24/7

Edited November 6, 2016 by Osgeld