would a portable Atari XE be possible with today's tech ?

[andy_bernstein]

Hey gang,

 

With this post, I wish to avoid emulation on a portable PC or MAC but really stimulates ideas about the possible creation of a portable XE computer.

 

If you've seen my post from a week ago, I'm a Macintosh User who has been a deep hardcore XL XE collector for these last twenty years. I have a major passion for this platform that I consider, with the MSX2, possibly the best 8 bit platform ever (if properly used).

 

I recently got an ATARI 130XE from Ebay this week (my collection is 18000 kilometers away so...) and I started immediately to program in Basic. It felt like I had never lost it BUT, if there is something I don't miss, it's to be immobilized in front of my XE for hours just programming. Hence the idea of a portable XE which would recapture the look and feel of the classic machine.

 

With today's technology (especially LCD screens & new batteries), such a portable seems plausible but it would require a return to the drawing board to optimize all the elements (+ to upgrade the existing hardware with why not a Stereo Pokey upgrade or other affordable gizmos like a MyIde HD interface, a 1.4 meg disk drive, etc...)

 

My starpoint would be the use of a 130XE board alone then resolve each problem (alimentation, video...) one by one. I don't believe such a revival machine would look as slim as a Powerbook G4 Titanium but nothing prevents from trying.

 

Again, I'm aiming at the creation of an ultimate machine that would make programming something natural to do in any kind of environment.

 

Any opinion is welcome. Thank you - Andy.

 

Also, do anybody has this chip ?

(from http://www.atari-explorer.com/XE.html):

 

There was also an announcement made about the 65XEM, which donated "music".  This system was never released, but a number of working prototypes were produced.  A new polyphonic AMY super-sound chip was being worked on at Atari, and was a parting legacy by Warner-Atari computer engineers.  Unfortunately, these engineers no longer worked at the new slim and trim Atari, and the project was eventually axed.

 

Compute! magazine featured a news story on the 65XEM in April 1985:

 

"The third new 8-bit machine is an interesting variation of the 65XE called the 65XEM (XE Music computer). It's a 65XE with an additional sound chip, the new eight-voice "Amy". Unfortunately, this was the only new computer Atari didn't exhibit at the show.

 

However, those who have heard Amy say it outperforms even the SID synthesizer chip in the Commodore 64. Amy has a dynamic range exceeding 60 decibels, a frequency range of nearly 11 octaves from 4.8 hertz (far below human hearing) to 7.8 kilohertz, frequency resolution of 1/64 semitones, 64 harmonics, and many other features. Reportedly it can synthesize almost any musical instrument sound. The 65XEM will sell for about $150."

 

Such a chip would help re-energize the music production on the XE beyond the Pokey stereo upgrade. That would be neat.

[+davidcalgary29]

Don't forget the luggable XEP, which never did make it out of the doors. I did see a prototype of it at a trade show once, though.

[andy_bernstein]

David,

 

Yes I thought about the XEP but it was conceived back in 1985 (+ I don't think it had anything new beyond the freddie chip like on the 130xe).

 

What I'd be looking for would be a portable XE with today's technology which would mean use of a lcd screen, lithium battery (or something else) + an hardware upgrade like a Stereo Pokey and why not the Amy chip if it becomes possible to duplicate it (it seems only one exist). I don't know if a dual processor would be of any use due to the 8 bit architecture of the 6502 (a single 6502 already needs bankswitching to address the extra 64k in the 130xe so...).

 

For more info about the Amy chip:

http://www2.asw.cz/~kubecj/achamy.htm

[svenski]

I can't see why a portable XE couldn't be made today but surely the costs involved would outweigh the benefit.

[andy_bernstein]

Yes,

 

I understand that whole venture could be cost prohibitive but, since there's a very slim market for such a machine, I guess costs will automatically be prohibitive.

 

Except for independent upgrades (stereo pokey, 320k, IDE, PAL-NTSC), the structure of the 8-bit line has remained untouched since 1985 (130XE) and 1987 (XEGS). The point of a portable XE would be, first, to be a portable system that would allow you to program anywhere while capturing the look and feel (again no emulation) but, especially, it could merge all the upgrades into one package sold to the customer (i.e. "us" - around twenty people on the planet ?).

 

Honestly, I'm nuts about the XL/XE and I'd like to push it as far as it can be (+ I want to program all the time and not be locked at home !).

 

To sum it up, I need the precise specs of the 130XE (logic board map, connections). Before I order them from Best or B&C, please let me know if anyone of you has such information (copies could help).

 

[tyranthraxus]

I'm not techie but I am sure any of the old 8-bits can be made to fit

the case of a laptop. Being just bulky keyboards by todays standards

I think an adventurous person could probably buy an old laptop and

work at getting the XE to work with the laptop's monitor and keyboard.

Once you have that figured out you just need to squeeze the XE

board into the case.

 

John

[Curt Vendel]

Your biggest issue is power...

 

If your looking to do a ground up system, some of the semiconductors could be replaced with low current alternatives, the VLSI chips are going to be a problem since they are power hungry, so...

 

1. System is "transportable" but will not have a self contain battery backed power system for non-A/C use.

 

Next... if you're going to use existing HW, such as a 130XE motherboard, then it should be quite conceivable to do the following:

 

1. Design a new case design, a little "chunky" like a Toshiba 3100 (circa 1987)

2. Incorporate any of the 10.5" composite ready LCD monitors

3. incorporate a MyIDE hard disk interface with an internal 2.5" HD as primary and also have a Compact Flash card slot for a secondary drive to transport files to/from hard drive.

4. Incorporate an SIO2PC interface for "docking" with a PC to access its HD, modem, printer, floppy, etc...

 

 

Now this is a realworld, possible concept, if you want to get "fancy" have built in 3.5" drive, lower profile, etc... then you're talking about a ground up design with a lot of additional work and costs...

 

It is possible, it would be a fun hack to do.

 

 

Curt

[andy_bernstein]

Curt,

 

Thank you so much for the feedback. My french Atari friends already tell me I'm crazy to start something like this but there could really be a benefit for the community by having at its disposal a new machine ready to boot with tons of upgrades (basically, the requirements for a demo like Numen would be delivered "in the box" and it would give more freedom to current XL / XE programmers to push the machine even more).

 

Anyway - yes I thought about the Toshiba 3100 like I also thought about literaly using a 130XE (with case) and simply attach a (compatible) LCD screen to it. I also visited all upgrade pages (especially the ones by Patrick Fonck in the Netherlands, Mr.Atari and the Pokey stereo upgrade) and, YES, my first try at a portable will use current existing hardware.

 

The power issue also drives me crazy (just the size of an Atari Power Pack tells it all). For the moment, the priority is to have an Atari 130XE board react to a portable LCD screen and possibly another keyboard than its own.

 

To sum it up, I can use an iron solder easily and apply upgrades and hacks but, to design a new system from ground up, I'll need some help.

 

All right - I'm going to get as many used parts as I can on Ebay and we'll see from there.

 

Thanks again for any input / feedback.

[svenski]

 

I'm no expert but surely the power issue isn't that complicated. The XL/XE is not power hungry compared to a modern laptop, and the power supply is old technology.

 

All you need (I think) is an alternative that matches the input/output requirements of the existing PSU.

 

I think it is a good idea, just not sure of the viability when it comes to costings.

 

The 8-bit Atari community is small compared to other platforms, and the number of atari users who actually like to part with their cash is even smaller.

 

Good luck with it !!

[andy_bernstein]

Does anybody know what kind of "system profiler" Patrick uses on his machines.

 

Please take a look at his page:

 

http://www.fonck.nl/atari/

 

I'm thinking of the monochrome screenshots at the right sides of his 800XE and 600XL descripts.

 

Thanks.

[Shawn Jefferson]

Does anybody know what kind of "system profiler" Patrick uses on his machines.

 

Sysinfo 2.03 by Draco

 

Get it here: (scroll down)

http://www7.brinkster.com/atari/ataridl/dosutil.htm

[jon-paul]

This may sound daft, but would the LCD from the Sony PSOne be compatable with the atari? Ok its small, but its display input may be more compatable than the vga/svga display of old laptop LCDs.

How does it plug into the back of the PSone? What voltage would be needed? Could an adaptor for power and display be created?

 

Just a thought.

[andy_bernstein]

Nice idea to use the PSOne screen, it is somewhat small (5") but could be easier to connect to a 130XE board.

 

For info, I'm expecting Powerbook 5300CS parts (lcd screen and keyboard) and the goal is to make them connect to the 130XE (+ the LCD has to draw power from there).

 

Later...

 

AB.

[A2600]

If you succeed make another one and I will purchase it

[+davidcalgary29]

I've followed this thread with interest. It might be interesting to peruse efforts currently underway in the Commodore community to do the same thing with the C64. Here's a few links:

 

http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/C=Hackin...g11/usenet.html

 

http://www.ros.com.au/~errol/64misc.html#laptop

 

and don't forget Commodore's "Official" LCD laptop:

 

http://www.mathematik.uni-marburg.de/~neuvians/lcd.htm

[V.R]

If I was you i'd start from scratch. Make a completely new motherboard. It seems like a big task, but if you know what your doing it shouldn't take longer than a few weeks. Iam in the process of making a custom ST motherboard that will be no bigger than the length and width of an atari lynx. Thats portable! the smaller the better, as long as you can read the writhing on a small screen.

[andy_bernstein]

Hello Guys (any girl here ?),

 

I worked on the elements I told you about in my last post but, for the moment, it's not extremely encouraging. I have to admit I'm (almost) a complete beginner with such a hack.

 

Regarding the previous post from V.R., yes I'd love to build a motherboard from scratch - I just don't have the technical knowledge (my day job is writing music !).

 

I just got two 130XE's and a XEGM (gotta love that detachable keyboard) and, for the moment, I'm going to maximize these machines to get more used with Upgrades and develop sufficient technical knowledge to build the portable XE of my dreams (+ I wouldn't mind programming some homebrew games).

 

Message for CURT - Do you still have the Drive we talked about ?

 

Later Guys...

 

AB.