Nintendo Switch

[cybercylon]

Frankly, until I saw all of these posts, I didn't really notice.

[roots.genoa]

To be honest I didn't have any trouble before switching from 3DS or Wii U to PS4 or PC (with an Xbox or PS4 controller), except maybe for Shovel Knight on Wii U ; initially you had to press B to accept and A to cancel until Yacht Club Games published a patch that added the option to invert buttons for menus (this option is also available in Blaster Master Zero by the way). But for some reason, maybe because Switch is new and I have yet to acquire the 'muscle memory' for its somehow different controller, or maybe because I've been using the PS4 a lot more for the past few months before the release of the Switch, it became an issue for me. Especially because I use my 3DS, PS4 and Switch on a daily basis. When on the verge to die in Zelda for example, I would exit the menu instead of eating some food, and I would sometimes start a film or return to main menu by accident on PS4's Netflix app.

It is not a big issue, but once again, I really don't understand why Sony doesn't add the option to the PS4.

[Mord]

Normally when I game I tend to try to stick to a particular game until it's done, so them flipping buttons around rarely affect me. A couple minutes of playing and I'll eventually get use to what that particular game expects.

 

That being said, while playing Nier:Automata, it's a bit grating that they use the O button to open dialogues, but then expect X to be pressed to continue the dialogue and O to cancel. To me it feels like switching the buttons around mid-game so there's no getting use to it. The number of times I'll talk to a shop keeper for instance then immediately back out of the shop because suddenly O means the opposite of what it normally does... let's just say the counter is still going up on that one. ^^

[Tanooki]

You want one I never (or many could never) adjust to?

 

The insulting port of Mega Man Collection for the Gamecube. The PS2 version mapped the buttons (and allowed for re-assigning them too) like the NES controller for their dual shock controller. The Gamecube one SWAPPED B+A buttons *AND* removed button remapping (WHY?!) I tried and tried so many times over and over, but it never could play it. You can only run up to a pit and fire your gun while falling to your death so many times before you say f this game and get rid of it. The company they farmed that port out to were morons, lazy too removing the configuration option as well.

[Osgeld]

I have played video games from the birth of colecovision to the PS4 and about way too many games on pc only using keyboard and mouse, its never been a problem playing megaman, crap I can dominate MK and MK2 just using the pc keyboard

 

and people are morons cause they cant adapt to two buttons being in insignifigant positions?

 

please stop this witch hunt, quit complaining, and learn how to play a video game, and not just memorize a video game, they are two completely different things

[Tanooki]

I can play and have played those very games in DOS/Windows using a keyboard as well. A little harder at times sure, but once you get the feel for rocking around a few keys at the same time it's fine.

[Osgeld]

I can play and have played those very games in DOS/Windows using a keyboard as well.

 

 

 

but

 

 

OMG SHIT MY PANTS THEY SWITCHED MEGAMAN JUMP AND ATTACHK FROM BA TO AB TO PLACATE THE MORNONESNES

 

STFU you conveniently and consistently contradictory moron, its seriously not a problem for 99.999999999% of the solar system, there's aliens just now reviving atari 2600 modem transmisions and dont have a problem converting 40 years of "standard" control schemes, and your dumb ass cant tell the difference tween jump and fire

Edited May 8, 2017 by Osgeld

[Austin]

[Tanooki]

I'm not contradicting you stupid prick. Your first example was playing on a tricky keyboard instead of a gamepad. The one I used was someone reversing a button layout in a franchise established 20 years earlier and the fact that muscle memory wouldn't get me over the hump. Not the same thing, but the one real thing I did wrong here was reply to you as you're the site troll and you were trolling the thread. You're doing nothing but attacking people for being unhappy about some control choices they may or may not prefer. Holy crap that's the end of the world right there, shattering your little existence with it being discussed. You really need to go sit in a corner and contemplate being less douchy. You're going on ignore.

[Schizophretard]

STFU you conveniently and consistently contradictory moron, its seriously not a problem for 99.999999999% of the solar system, there's aliens just now reviving atari 2600 modem transmisions and dont have a problem converting 40 years of "standard" control schemes, and your dumb ass cant tell the difference tween jump and fire

 

We’re DRINKING, Karen. We’re having CONVERSATIONS.

[Asaki]

STFU you conveniently and consistently contradictory moron, its seriously not a problem for 99.999999999% of the solar system

Don't know what you're so upset about, but Mega Man Collection for Gamecube got universally panned almost exclusively because of the control issues.

[Punisher5.0]

Let's drop it a notch or two please.

[HoshiChiri]

 

please stop this witch hunt, quit complaining, and learn how to play a video game, and not just memorize a video game, they are two completely different things

 

Not as different as you think. I love me some funky controllers- there is nothing better than talking someone into trying the Channel F who's never seen the controller before. It's not terribly difficult to play Game A on System A, then switch to Game B on system C with a different control setup & move right along with little trouble adapting.

 

HOWEVER- if two systems have games from the same series, or a port of the same game, and similar controllers? Changing the controls can be devastating to your gaming experience. For example: while I was playing long before it came out, I did most of my early hardcore gaming on Playstation systems. What button is 'confirm' on most Playstation games? X. When I go to play SNES games- having acquired the SNES well after the PS2 came out- guess what my first instinct for confirm is? B- because it's in the same place as X on a PS controller. And if that's not confirm, I WILL mess it up. Repeatedly. Hell, I have trouble on Japanese PS games that didn't re-map the confirm button from O.

 

There is a reason confirm is almost always X. There is a reason most NES platformers use A for jump and B for attack. Because you're not supposed to think about what button you're hitting! By standardizing the controls somewhat, you allow the player to intuitively know how to play your game. Change it- especially within a franchise- and you just frustrate people. It doesn't matter if it's technically a simple change- it's not harder to hit a different button. If it breaks expectations, it's instantly much harder to play.

 

For a non-controller related example, look up a game called Default Dan. It's a standard platformer that's simply reversed a bunch of gaming tropes. For example, coins & hearts kill you if you touch them, but you can bounce on spikes. It's not designed to be difficult, but most people struggle with it because it's 'breaking the rules'. Here's a GameGrumps play-through:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXtckXgwn4A

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

For a non-controller related example, look up a game called Default Dan. It's a standard platformer that's simply reversed a bunch of gaming tropes. For example, coins & hearts kill you if you touch them, but you can bounce on spikes. It's not designed to be difficult, but most people struggle with it because it's 'breaking the rules'. Here's a GameGrumps play-through:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXtckXgwn4A

I gotta look that up.

[Atariboy]

A lot of Super Nintendo games use B as the confirmation button. Hate to see that it has changed through the years.

 

I think Nintendo really missed the boat in not correctly labeling A/B on the SNES controller. A where the B button is and B where Y is, as were the designations during development at one point, would've solved so much in the long run and would've only been logical on the system considering how universal Y/B were for the console's primary two buttons.

 

Instead it has been compromises ever since then when 4 buttons are present, with Nintendo often conflicted on consoles between comfort and button lettering, thanks to the Game Boy range and the NES that established that the two primary buttons are A/B. Nintendo made one effort to correct it on the Nintendo 64 with properly positioned A/B buttons that reflect SuperNes practice and the typical gamer's ideal button configuration (Except for Stardust), but we're still seeing problems today.

 

I've just started the Shadow Temple in Ocarina of Time 3D on the 3DS and it's dozens of hours into the game, with just Ganon left to fight after I finish this last dungeon. Yet I'm still hitting the wrong buttons since not only did the N64 original train me to rely on what are the Y and B button locations on the 3DS, it's also the most comfortable layout for the typical gamer's thumb.

 

So I'm still occasionally hitting Y or hitting the wrong button to slash attack an enemy and so on...

Edited May 9, 2017 by Atariboy

[Asaki]

A where the B button is and B where Y is, as were the designations during development at one point, would've solved so much in the long run and would've only been logical on the system considering how universal Y/B were for the console's primary two buttons.

Oh gosh, that would have just rendered me a completely useless gamer when the XBox came out. I had enough trouble just trying to remember that the letters were swapped backwards, still to this day, on XBox or 360 I usually ignore the letter and go by color instead.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Instead it has been compromises ever since then when 4 buttons are present, with Nintendo often conflicted on consoles between comfort and button lettering, thanks to the Game Boy range and the NES that established that the two primary buttons are A/B. Nintendo made one effort to correct it on the Nintendo 64 with properly positioned A/B buttons that reflect SuperNes practice and the typical gamer's ideal button configuration (Except for Stardust), but we're still seeing problems today.

Why then the Dog Bone controller and the Game Boy? Look at the angles, they are perfect. The thumb extends the same length to hit each button. My first Nintendo system was the Game Boy, not the SNES. I only later in life picked up the older consoles, staring with NES. Do a mockup of the DMG Gameboy with the buttons pitched the other way and see how wrong it looks.

 

Granted, the pitch is more like 30 degrees (horizontal being zero) and less the 45 of the diamond. But even the SNES pad has slightly higher spacing between A/Y as opposed to B/X, so the angle is more like 40.

[Atariboy]

Oh gosh, that would have just rendered me a completely useless gamer when the XBox came out. I had enough trouble just trying to remember that the letters were swapped backwards, still to this day, on XBox or 360 I usually ignore the letter and go by color instead.

 

At least the A button would match up then.

 

I gave up 10 years ago hoping I'd learn which button letter went where on Microsoft's controllers. Nintendo got to me first and there's no coming back from it, apparently.

 

I don't know why Microsoft just didn't go all the way with their copying, since they certainly must've intended to at first considering the four letters they went with to designate their buttons. The only saving grace for me on Xbox platforms are the widespread dependency on shoulder buttons. Outside of classic compilations and the like, I'm relying on triggers more often than face buttons for many games like racers.

 

It took long enough just to learn Sony's layout with shapes and the X button, which even now I can't quite reliably handle in fast paced situations where you have to rapidly repeat some on-screen pattern like in rhythm games. I have to think about it for a second at times, and that just doesn't work with something like a QTE sequence.

 

But ABXY on a Nintendo gamepad is a layout I'll never forget or hesitate with, thanks to the Super Nintendo.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Atariboy

[roots.genoa]

 

I don't know why Microsoft just didn't go all the way with their copying, since they certainly must've intended to at first considering the four letters they went with to designate their buttons. The only saving grace for me on Xbox platforms are the widespread dependency on shoulder buttons. Outside of classic compilations and the like, I'm relying on triggers more often than face buttons for many games like racers.

Xbox controller is actually based on the Dreamcast controller. A button confirms and B button cancels exactly like on Nintendo controllers, but their positions have been inverted to match the western PlayStation controllers layout. Maybe SEGA was just trying again to do things differently.

Edited May 9, 2017 by roots.genoa

[Bill Loguidice]

And there's obviously a good reason for becoming comfortable with the Xbox standard, since it's pretty much the de facto layout on PC.

 

In any case, regardless of differences between the various platforms - even though I'd prefer a single standard - certainly muscle memory develops if you play them all enough. Whether it's a new keyboard, or, as happened in the 80s, going from a joystick on the right to a joystick on the left, and then going from a joystick to a gamepad, you eventually adapt.

[Atariboy]

That spot is still held by the keyboard and mouse in my household.

 

For me, if I wanted to play a game with a console controller, I'd play it on a console. The PC is for experiences that wouldn't be done justice with console gamepads.

[Bill Loguidice]

That spot is still held by the keyboard and mouse in my household.

 

For me, if I wanted to play a game with a console controller, I'd play it on a console. The PC is for experiences that wouldn't be done justice with console gamepads.

 

Many games are not keyboard and mouse friendly, but to each their own.

[Andromeda Stardust]

And there's obviously a good reason for becoming comfortable with the Xbox standard, since it's pretty much the de facto layout on PC.

 

In any case, regardless of differences between the various platforms - even though I'd prefer a single standard - certainly muscle memory develops if you play them all enough. Whether it's a new keyboard, or, as happened in the 80s, going from a joystick on the right to a joystick on the left, and then going from a joystick to a gamepad, you eventually adapt.

Yeah just like I can adapt to B+Y versus A+B layouts, considering the fact all of Virtual console utilized the A+B standard in their default layout whereas modern games used B+Y. It still trips be up switching between say NSMBU and SMB VC, but takes maybe two minutes to adapt to either control scheme, whether it's my preferred layout or not.

 

And a similar moment of adaptation switching between Twilight Princess and BOTW, which have different layouts for attack and run, with the diamond being rotated 90 degrees between games.

[Tanooki]

Can't believe this still is going on in this thread for controller comfiness. Perhaps a mod can break it off to it's own debate subject?

 

May 11th I think it was but the spendy MVS (and kidney donation level pricing AES) release of Garou Mark of the Wolves (ACA-NeoGeo) hits the eShop. GET IT.

 

Anyone know what ever happened to Pocket Fighter that NGPC wannabe? They had it slated for April, it clearly missed the boat.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I wanna know when we get proper VC titles. The fact that NeoGeo games are being ported by third party as standalone classics tells me Nintendo doesn't care anymore. I did buy Bonk's Adventure and Bomberman '94 on Wii-U VC which came out recently. Why'd they wait until after Switch was out to launch TG-16 in North America? Maks no sense to me.

 

NES Classic is gone and still no sign of VC, so I guess Nintendo doesn't care anymore about their old IP.

 

Q: How many copies of Super Mario Bros can they sell me before I tire of it?

A: I will never tire of Super Mario Bros!