XE/XL PBI custom connections help

[Dropcheck]

Since I have no PBI devices of my own and sometimes the information is not widely available or is scattered over hundreds of posts or websites I'm trying to centralize information on what PBI devices require additional connections to the PBI connector. These would be aside from the standard signals available on the 600/800XL PBI or 65/130XE ECI/Cart connector.

 

I guess also it would be prudent to include any mod device that pulls a signal from the PBI connector. Sometimes it is just a convenient place to pick off a signal, but sometimes it's more.

 

 

[+kheller2]

I'm not aware, off the top of my head, any PBI device that requires modification to the connector.. other than the 800XL and wanting to add +5V.

[Dropcheck]

I'm not aware, off the top of my head, any PBI device that requires modification to the connector.. other than the 800XL and wanting to add +5V.

 

You said other than the 800XL. Please explain.

 

I understand that the 600XL 1064 memory expansion is expecting +5v on the PBI pins 47 and 48 I think. Are their other devices that also connect to the PBI that are also expecting +5V?

Edited October 26, 2016 by Dropcheck

[+tf_hh]

Since I have no PBI devices of my own and sometimes the information is not widely available or is scattered over hundreds of posts or websites I'm trying to centralize information on what PBI devices require additional connections to the PBI connector. These would be aside from the standard signals available on the 600/800XL PBI or 65/130XE ECI/Cart connector.

 

I guess also it would be prudent to include any mod device that pulls a signal from the PBI connector. Sometimes it is just a convenient place to pick off a signal, but sometimes it's more.

 

The most actual and made-in-the-past also PBI devices doesn´t require any additional connections. This would disagree the concept of an external buss like PBI and should not recommanded in any design - otherwise any user of this specific PBI expansion must open his computer and solder wires. I think, there are only a very small amount of such expansions require additional connections.

 

I know only one... the Ralf David ROM Disk. This one has a modified OS on it´s PCB and requires 2 or 3 (don´t remember right now) additional wires from specific points on the XL mainboard to the PBI. Also traces must be cut on the XL mainboard an so on.

 

Ok, the Turbo Freezer 2 XL (from B. Engl, not any of the remakes from Hias) has the optional possibility to connect the /HALT signal to the PBI on pin 31 (when I´m remember right) to make the memory expansion on the Turbo Freezer 2 XL compatible to the ANTIC-mode like in any 130 XE.

 

The ROM-Disk also uses pin 31. So that´s the second reason why not to support these mods... a computer modded for usage with the Turbo Freezer 2 XL in ANTIC/CPU seperate mode (memory expansion) won´t work the ROM-Disk... and more side-effects are possible.

 

Jurgen

[+tf_hh]

 

You said other than the 800XL. Please explain.

 

I understand that the 600XL 1064 memory expansion is expecting +5v on the PBI pins 47 and 48 I think. Are their other devices that also connect to the PBI that are also expecting +5V?

 

Yes. A lot. But mostly only optional

 

- Any Turbo Freezer (from the oldest original to the newest Remake, Turbo Freezer 2011)

- Any KMK-IDE Interface

- ROM-Disks like mentioned in my post before

- Sys-Check

 

... and a lot of other modern expansions. Mostly they can also fed by external power supply and/or joystickport-connection to pin 7, but a lot of expansions need only small current and can be fed by the computer. Bigger expansions like the BlackBox need their own power supply instead.

 

Jurgen

[_The Doctor__]

I don't see any harm in providing the combined pbi of the XL line, it won't hurt anything and only help... if the goal is to make a swiss army pbi card with cartridge pass thru.... why not this combination

2 cart connector slots [========] [========]

1 combined XL series pbi edge ------------------------------

1 combined XE series eci connector slot [==============] [===]

1 enhanced pbi-eci combined connector slot [===================]

 

not saying they have to be organized that way, but it would allow you to keep everything 100 percent compatible and people can draw out all the stops for the enhanced combined eci pbi without any chance of accidentally plugging a standard pbi connector onto it.

 

This would allow for the greatest flexibility and should cover all the bases.

 

If you wanted to go all out and do the ultimate

a third cart slot using ras cas like the 800 so even those carts will work on the XL/XE! some old carts don't run on the XL/XE because of the timing difference. Now that would rock!

Edited October 26, 2016 by _The Doctor__

[_The Doctor__]

the pbi edge could be on the left, the eci connector slots on the rear, the pbi-eci slot on the right and the cartridge slots on the top!

 

although some have suggested pbi edge and eci slots face rear (side by side), enhanced pbi-eci slot face out to the right, and cartridge slots on the top!

Edited October 26, 2016 by _The Doctor__

[Dropcheck]

This is exactly what I am trying to find out. What devices have 'non-standard' connections to either the PBI or ECI already. What they are and If they can be worked around or nullified or used etc.

As far as opening up the computer to make a modification inside. Developers do it all the time when they release new products, whether it is a disk drive mod or a computer mod. Most mods require 1 to many internal connections to various points on the motherboard. I don't see the difference.

Requiring a different OS might be a bit much, but what was changed. How does that affect other devices. Can they co-exist? What can be changed? There's going to be tradeoffs and must do workarounds.

I recognize there are many hurdles to massaging some kind of standard PBI/ECI design connection, but just because a mod made a specific connection twenty years ago is not a reason to avoid doing anything with it. Maybe it's time to change that device to fit. Or incorporate it into the standard. Or let it go.

 

The +5V connection does not seem to be an issue. The Atari 1064 memory expansion already has the +5v requirement on the 600XL PBI. So although the 800Xl doesn't have that connection internally, Atari has designated those pins to carry the +5V in the schematics. It is actually a standard signal on the PBI. Perhaps not to be used except for light draw, but already accounted for none the less.

[_The Doctor__]

You can use a diode to protect the 5 volt line you correctly add that way if some device adds 5v to the pin on its own it won't be a problem...

 

whatever is available on the pbi on any machine from Atari can be combined... that was the whole idea.... so adding what is on some xl as it evolved should do no harm and adding protection and etc won't hurt a darn thing...

 

same goes for the eci

 

combining the the eci and pbi into one and then using the opposite gender is a protection as well.... nothing says you can't provide them on the same pcb... I would love to be able to switch between parallel devices without having to tear crap apart and swap everything around... go for it!

 

you end up with the complete pbi which is compatible across the line with some protection... a complete eci again with some protection and a enhanced pbi eci with some protection and a gender reversed protection so as not to confuse it with regular pbi

 

whats not to like... why wouldn't you add in all the signals for each standards line.... that's what was intended! and why not combine the two like I said and reverse the gender and then people could design and use all carts and make nifty new hardware... hell you could add support circuitry to buffer and stabilize the ports if you wanted.... why not?

 

I love your idea, there is no issue... as far as I can see....

Edited October 26, 2016 by _The Doctor__