+Stephen Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Ok, I have some pictures. Here is "Video Chess" next to a production Computer Chess cartridge: Wow - a ceramic and gold leg EPROM, that's pretty old right there. You think this could be a legit prototype? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Wow, that is a real proto. Why the strange label though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Wow, that is a real proto. Why the strange label though? Maybe it was made in-house by Atari's graphics/ad people for some industry event or show, or to show to big wigs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Wow, that is a real proto. Why the strange label though? Given that this was one of the first games released for the system (1979), it just may be a prototype label as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 That's a good theory. Why does it say 10 Games though when it only has 8? BTW the 2600 has a similar thing going on. There's a prototype version of Video Chess called Computer Chess complete with a production label: http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/computerchess/computerchess.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) That's a good theory. Why does it say 10 Games though when it only has 8? It seems odd. Who knows, maybe because it was only a prototype, they were testing to see how two digits would look/fit on the label. Or they may have planned to make two more levels at some point. BTW the 2600 has a similar thing going on. There's a prototype version of Video Chess called Computer Chess complete with a production label: http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/computerchess/computerchess.htm Yeah, I saw that last night when I was going through my 2600 ROM's looking for Video Chess. At least they rounded the corners properly on those labels. Edited February 18, 2017 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) Wow, that is a real proto. Why the strange label though? What makes you think it's a prototype? The things that don't add up to me are: - The PCB appears to be new, almost just like the ones B&C have been selling with the same cuts - The chip appear to have been removed a few times at least, but not the mb8516. - The mb8516 chip is available new and refurb, have you ever seen Atari use this PCB and those chips even on a project cart? - Chess was a simple program, so if the label was made to match the program/games that were to be on it, why is this just Computer Chess? - I can't find anything dating back to 1978 with the proposed name of Video Chess. The earliest ad (press release) I can find states Computer Chess. - What else did this person have and where did it come from. I'm just not sold yet. Prove me wrong. Edited February 18, 2017 by Atari8bitCarts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Ok, I have some pictures. Here is "Video Chess" next to a production Computer Chess cartridge: I'd love to know what the date code is on that inverter chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter83 Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I think I've seen that kinda label someplace before . I wish I could recall where but it's not the first time me seeing that 10 games label. If this is a true prototype and no a bootleg of some sort it's gonna be real eproms in a makeshift board wI red up which puts me off from calling it a real prorotype. I'll need more board pics but I have a huge 296 page parts catalog of every case board chip atari used from 1972 to 1984. With an atari part number. But honestly just cause I recall seeing this kinda label before I don't believe it was done by atari. I'm thinking it's an aftermarket company who made this cart. Only thing that might be truly atari are the eproms and it's gonna be hard to prove that with some much againist this cart. Either way (real or a knock off bootleg) it would be a cool item I'd like to obtain . Knock off bootleg oddball stuff is usually up my alley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I said it was a real proto because the eprom labels looked correct to me (style, handwriting, etc.). I'm not a hardware guy so I don't know anything about the boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) I ran it by Bruce at B&C Computers and he thought it was a home brew. That would make sense to me, it's cool, but from Atari I really don't think so. But it still doesn't explain that it's just Computer Chess... Unless someone just made it...to test us... I would want to see more items from the score, and to know where it came from. It was said there were more carts, that could show us if they had more strange projects, or a tie with Atari... Edited February 18, 2017 by Atari8bitCarts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I don't want to jump to conclusions but I looked at the original poster. low posts. This post started Dec, though in another post it was discussed a huge haul in San Francisco, but in Feb (this month). That haul looked large with many strange items, like from a distributor (see all the sales and service tags). But this topic discussed found in a garage sale(s) in Dec? and the poster obviously knows Atari. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/261905-selling-atari-8-bitst-collection-san-francisco-bay-area-local-pickup-only/?do=findComment&comment=3692328 Then stated it ended up on eBay by another seller. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-Unique-One-of-Kind-Fabricated-ATARI-ST-Computer-System-MEGA-STE-/122352967731?nma=true&si=kl6plBfarZdzT7eu5bn3JPhZjUU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 And it was stated: I purchased a huge Atari collection from a man who is retiring and moving away out the Bay Area. Long time ago, his sister worked for Atari in Sunnyvale (next to San Jose, CA). He obtained many unique items. This was a fabricated or a prototype Atari System that was never sold in the stores. So who is this poster? Re-promoting the items: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/262170-new-found-undocumented-atari-hard-drive-cage-for-a8s/?do=findComment&comment=3695204 Just food for thought... Just pimping items.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) I'd say the labels on the chips are very old as are the IC's themselves, its a LONG time since I've seen ceramics but if you look at the way the label have lost stickiness from the years of cold and heating, they have also absorbed stains and clearly been in place for a long old time. Is it a prototype, pass but its certainly not a new cart made recently, it has the look of some of the IC's I've seen from old C64's and my 800. Just had another look and the labels themselves from a forensic POV show so many tell tale signs of age, edge discolouring, dirt absorption, loss of tackiness on small area's and exactness of placement lines still in place after the stick has gone from the label. The oddity is the cart label, wrong colour and texture as already said and no space between the Rom name and the next line as per other cats.....Knocked up proto.....Possibly??? Edited February 18, 2017 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I'd say the labels on the chips are very old as are the IC's themselves, its a LONG time since I've seen ceramics but if you look at the way the label have lost stickiness from the years of cold and heating, they have also absorbed stains and clearly been in place for a long old time. Is it a prototype, pass but its certainly not a new cart made recently, it has the look of some of the IC's I've seen from old C64's and my 800. Just had another look and the labels themselves from a forensic POV show so many tell tale signs of age, edge discolouring, dirt absorption, loss of tackiness on small area's and exactness of placement lines still in place after the stick has gone from the label. The oddity is the cart label, wrong colour and texture as already said and no space between the Rom name and the next line as per other cats.....Knocked up proto.....Possibly??? Just remember old doesn't equate to prototype. We all have old chips laying around And even if this was made years ago, it looks like a home made cart. And we've all run into hundreds of those. How in the world can you tell age by a picture... dirt absorption, I mean really. The only real way in my mind to determine, is if there is evidence, meaning other data substantiating it. Who owned it, what was with it, when I see a poster with only posts around the topic, or one or two more, with the same theme. And they know more about this stuff more than most that just "stumble" onto a find. I get suspicious. I could be wrong, it would be the first time however... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Wow, that is a real proto. Why the strange label though? Maybe it was made in-house by Atari's graphics/ad people for some industry event or show, or to show to big wigs? If it actually is a proto, then I think the label was made by someone much later who had the ability to print in color, maybe after a paper label had fallen off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Just remember old doesn't equate to prototype. We all have old chips laying around And even if this was made years ago, it looks like a home made cart. And we've all run into hundreds of those. How in the world can you tell age by a picture... dirt absorption, I mean really. The only real way in my mind to determine, is if there is evidence, meaning other data substantiating it. Who owned it, what was with it, when I see a poster with only posts around the topic, or one or two more, with the same theme. And they know more about this stuff more than most that just "stumble" onto a find. I get suspicious. I could be wrong, it would be the first time however... I never said it was a prototype, the nearest I got was a 'possibly', again I was remarking almost totally on the labels... As for the dirt absorption, just look at the edges of the labels an the grease type residue around the top label, that is something that has dimmed and collected dirt and dust over time, let alone the discolouring probably caused by heat and cold..I'm not claiming a CSI: Silent Witness moment here, just looking at the clues the labels show, I'd say the labels have been on the chips for a long time.. Unlike yourself I won't be cocky and claim I'm hardly ever wrong But I've been inside so many old computers that had mods done and that is what that looks like to a tee (or is it tea, I could be wrong for the first time )) <---is a joke... Again, I have no idea if its a proto or just a cart flashed back in the day but the hardware matches old not often used items like the ceramic IC. As said we need someone who maybe Kevin has interviewed and was at Atari in that time period, do we know who the programmer of the released version was (not looked if he or she is credited personally)... Size of the rom seems odd, was 8K on release if mem serves me, bloated beta or just an error ? Anyway, I'm off, I've two dead programmers to identify just by their acne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 If it actually is a proto, then I think the label was made by someone much later who had the ability to print in color, maybe after a paper label had fallen off. Bit weird that if it was in house that the same template wasn't used as normal, the lack of spacing between name and additional info is just odd let alone the other noted things about the texture etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Bit weird that if it was in house that the same template wasn't used as normal, the lack of spacing between name and additional info is just odd let alone the other noted things about the texture etc.. Right. I mean a later owner of the cart may have made the label. Here's how my homemade Castle Crisis labels looked (don't have any pictures handy so this one's from the Internet): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electronizer Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 Okay, I have a little more info about the cartridge. However, let me start by clarifying: I am not trying to gain financially by this or in other ways trying to fool the community. I don’t know whether this cartridge is real or not; it’s certainly different, which is why it caught my eye. I’m an Atari enthusiast and collector, and have been ever since my dad bought an 800XL for the family when I was a kid. I don’t have any plans to sell this cartridge. The original owner posted about a garage sale on Craigslist in December and said he had some Atari items. I went to the sale and saw the Video Chess cartridge in a box along with a bunch of other regular production cartridges, and I commented that this was an odd cartridge because of the CXL4003 labeling. At that time, the owner wasn’t quite ready to sell because he hadn’t been able to go through and organize his collection. Fast forward to February. The original owner posted again that he was having another sale, so I got over there as quickly as I could. It turned out that he had a huge amount of Atari stuff, including boxes of spare parts that he had purchased from Atari service centers back in the day. In addition to the Video Chess cartridge, I picked up some case plastics and motherboards, some drive mechanisms, an Atari Service banner, and other things that I have yet to sort. However, what really made my jaw drop was when he brought out a 1400XL. This was a very lucky find. After I realized I didn’t have the $$ or space for everything else in his collection, I became more interested in making sure these items found their way into the community. I had met the eBay seller on one of several trips to the original owner’s house to pick up Atari stuff, so I gave him a shout out in the marketplace because I figured he would eventually put up some of the spare parts he had (he purchased most of the remaining items in the collection). Anyway, that’s a little background on this amazing find. It would be great if this cartridge turns out to be a real prototype created at Atari back in the day, but if not, c’est la vie I just love Atari and mysteries, and if it’s an Atari mystery, even better! I hooked up my Black Box and went into the monitor to look at both the Video Chess cartridge and my production Computer Chess cartridge. The first difference I noticed was that the text strings are offset in the Video Chess cartridge. In video chess, the text starts at 0xB0C9, but in Computer Chess, it starts at 0xB0A9. Is this significant? Video Chess: Computer Chess: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Any difference in the binary is significant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8bitCarts Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 first let me say that electronizer I'm not calling you out suggesting that you are trying to get capital gain or deceive us. What I a saying is that the cart you found is what I think is a home brew. Others have looked at it and suggested the same. You have a very big post about other items that are rare. So I find it strange that this cart wasn't added to that discussion... I'm drunk at the moment... So I better wait tillmorning... Thanx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter83 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Messages sent to electronizer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) To the OP, I very much doubt there's even a single person thinking you are perpetrating a scam, we are as excited as you are, is it real or just an edit, its a really cool hunt to try and help you find out. I remember the thread with the Cheque book cart (or similar) where it did indeed turn out to be a proto iirc so we get as buzzed as you about these things. What we really need is the team or person that programmed the released game to come forward but time might be against us, I still say its worth Kevin having a chat with anyone he's interviewed from that time period at Atari, it may shed a clue or could be a dead end... We need Sherlock Holmes or Columbo now Edited February 19, 2017 by Mclaneinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter83 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 My connection did mostly 2600 5200 7800 games. But I can reach out see who else I can drum up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Worth a shot.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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