CommVex 2017 Discussion Thread

[cjameslv]

We thank everyone for their participation in this thread! Real good has been done and now we have a new event to replace CommVex! Please see post #3 for more info.

OVERVIEW:

So with this upcoming CommVEx 2017, there is some issues with where it's being held and hows its going to be ran. There is a few groups responsible for setting up and getting things ready, one of those being our group based in Las Vegas, The 5C's. We have posted this here so all may chime in and be heard. Please keep your posts civil and language clean. Thank you!

Here is a rundown of the current things needing to be discussed:

Location:

As of this moment, The California is set to be hosting. One main issue is each vendor will be required to build and teardown their setup/displays each day. Nothing may stay over night. Very strict guidelines and no signage or pictures/posters etc are allowed on walls.The Plaza is still a possibility but there was issues with booking ahead of time, also the lack of A/C is an issue. So where we at exactly?

Fees:

Another thing to discuss is fees for admission and vendor tables/areas. Which is preferred? Do we charge for admission or do the vendors pay for each table they plan to use, or even something else?

Discussion:

Seems funny but there was actually an issue of all the Commodore club members being able to discuss Commvex 2017 in general? Lol, not sure how that even happened but please discuss anything else related to Commvex 2017 here. Due to some issues it may be that many will boycott this event. I encourage all to speak up on attendance and their plans for such.

Different Event:

It was brought up about a a completely different Commodore event being held in Vegas. Whats the thoughts of everyone on that?

I'm sure there is more and i have reserved the above sections for more items as this develops.

Edited January 27, 2017 by cjameslv

[cjameslv]

Current Location Info (updated):

- No Friday Setup (updated)

- Daily Setup & Tear down of booths

- Electrical Outlet Issue (Only 1 outlet with 4 plugs in the room)

- No Signage or posters

- No after hours availability

 

Non-Attendance for Current Location:

- We have verified posts now of past attendees who will not be attending unless location or arrangements are changed.

I will keep track of those who will not attend and create a petition of those who wish to change location? Please post your first name & last initial if you wish to be counted in this list. (i see alot of people on email posting they will not attend as well, but a public post would be appreciated and i will add you once that's done).

 

Current verified members Non-Attending:

Chad J.

Jim D.

John F.

Joshua J.

Forrest N.

Keith G.

James W.

Edited December 29, 2016 by cjameslv

[cjameslv]

New Venue & Event: Updated 1/27/17


New Event CRX is a go!!

5C's has received a donation of $2000 from an anonymous donor and the money sent to CBMStuff and will be combined with whatever additional expenses we encounter, to be provided by CBMStuff.com! I wish I could share with you the name of our latest sponsor, but at his request we are keeping that low key!

So, we're on a roll, and CRX is HAPPENING! We're in current negotiations with the Plaza Hotel and will have our show dates confirmed very soon! (hopefully tomorrow!) Join us for the Best and Baddest Commodore Show ever right here in our home town of Las Vegas, Nevada!
Best wishes, and see you all there! Read more on the Commodore Retro Expo forum on www.lemon64.com!
Forrest Nettles
5C's

Voting: Closed

 

Today, 1/21 we had our January meeting and it's official - by unanimous vote 5C's will not be taking part in CommVEx, and we will be holding our own separate event. Assuming we can book our preferred venue on July 29-30 we will be hosting CRX, Commodore Retro Expo along with Jim Drew. More details to be posted on www.lemon64.com. Look there for our CRX LAS VEGAS forum!

Joining the 5C's:

 

 

Anyone who is interested in joining 5C's, the dues are $12/year and we have monthly 64 disks as well as a monthly DVD that covers 64, Amiga and limited PC. Also voting via email is possible, and the vote will essentially be an up or down vote, Meetings are the 3rd Saturday of each month. Next meeting is Jan 21st. On the agenda: 1. Do we pull out of CommVEx and 2. Do we open up a seperate new event and venue, more info available from me, flnettles@hotmail.com

Edited January 27, 2017 by cjameslv

[JimDrew]

Well, I tried making 4 different posts on www.commodore.ca to open a discussion thread, but those were deleted and now I have been banned.

 

So, let's try here....

 

The reality is that there are a rather large group of people who have attended and/or sponsored CommVEx in the past that are not happy with the arrangements that have been made. While we all realize that the event is run by Robert and the Fresno club, there is a deliberate push to keep anyone from discussing the fact that changes need to be made in order for the event to continue to succeed.

 

I have been a big sponsor of this event (I have donated a few thousand dollars in cash and merchandise over the last 4 years). It was a fight to grow the event and use a larger room (which we did last year). It was stated on the last day of CommVEx2016 that there would be no change for 2017. The same location and room would be used (which is still available). That changed to a completely different location, and with a room where there is no Friday room access (or setup at all), you have to setup and tear down each day with limited hours, and no night time room usage at all. There are many attendees and vendors who bring a large number of systems, software, etc. that requires a long setup period (several hours in some cases). That will not be possible with the proposed venue. The real fun of CommVEx were the night time activities.

 

It is my hope that Robert will see this thread (and others just like it that are starting) and realize that the majority of attendees have openly stated that they will not be attending under these circumstances, and opt to make changes to return the event to what it was last year. As it stands now I won't be attending CommVEx as it is, along with a slew of others. If there is a real interest (which I believe now there is) in making a new event that everyone can attend, I would be happy to discuss this with the Las Vegas club and set this up.

 

Banning me from www.commodore.ca is not only childish, it does nothing but make it clear that you are deliberately trying to prevent anyone from voicing their opinion.

 

 

Jim Drew - CBMSTUFF.COM

Edited December 27, 2016 by JimDrew

[cjameslv]

Thank you Jim for the info. I will update the location tab as well.

[JimDrew]

I forgot about the signage and poster restriction! John made *really* nice Commodore related signs with lights for the event last year.

[TellarHK]

And here I was, thinking that my nervous meltdown/panic attack/implosion at CommVEx 2016 was going to be the craziest thing to happen around the event this year. Leave it to Robert to make me feel like I never had competition.

 

I have not been particularly happy with the way Robert treats people, especially when there's any kind of disagreement over the way he handles the event. Planning and organization has been a complete and utter mess in the years which I attended, for anything that isn't cramming as many presentations in as humanly possible and even then it's always looked like there was more chaos than order. This year, there was nothing clearly listed about group meal timing or locations and no way for anyone to try and plan around events and speakers during the show. When I asked Robert what time the dinner was likely to take place this year so I could decide on whether or not to try and run a couple quick errands or not with a group of people, his only response was "The same time it always does." in a less than polite manner.

 

Like Jim, I tried to talk about the cramped accommodations for prior events and was completely blown off rather rudely as though I were the only person with a complaint. Any kind of complaint or suggestion that doesn't appear to originate with Robert seems to be treated with scorn.

 

I will not be attending CommVEx 2017. (No surprise there for anyone that knows me) And if there is another option to attend instead, either in Vegas or any other part of Nevada (Reno's nice not bad, and I bet the rooms are cheaper!) or California, I will make every attempt to either attend that instead or in some other way contribute just as I would have tried to do in some fashion with CommVEx had the management been more open to outside input or even discussion. I'd like to thank Jim for finally forcing the issue and either making CommVEx a better event or starting something even more enjoyable however this works out.

 

As a quick side note (but not to derail anything, please) I would like to apologize to everyone who attended for my behavior at the event this year. It was largely limited to my own small group of people, but I know it impacted on the wider event as a whole. It was the culmination of many months worth of debilitating stress and depression and I've been working on recovery since then.

[sncboom2k]

I have to agree with the others when I say I will not be attending CommVex 2017 under the currently contracted conditions. Everyone who knows me, knows I bring a lot of gear for both display and for sale and I'm not willing to break it all down each night and setup again in the morning. I worked hard and spent good money to dress up CommVex this year (2016) as I wanted tit to look like an expo etc. The image has been bad, the rooms too small (until this year), and now we're going backwards. I do not agree with this and will not support this decision.

​If another gathering can be had - Please let me know, as I'll be happy to help. Unless the location and conditions change for CommVex 2017 - I'll not be attending. We've all worked too hard, spent a lot of hard earned money, and deserve better than is being provided by "management" for 2017.

 

Sadly,
​John

 

[cjameslv]

And here I was, thinking that my nervous meltdown/panic attack/implosion at CommVEx 2016 was going to be the craziest thing to happen around the event this year. Leave it to Robert to make me feel like I never had competition.

 

I have not been particularly happy with the way Robert treats people, especially when there's any kind of disagreement over the way he handles the event. Planning and organization has been a complete and utter mess in the years which I attended, for anything that isn't cramming as many presentations in as humanly possible and even then it's always looked like there was more chaos than order. This year, there was nothing clearly listed about group meal timing or locations and no way for anyone to try and plan around events and speakers during the show. When I asked Robert what time the dinner was likely to take place this year so I could decide on whether or not to try and run a couple quick errands or not with a group of people, his only response was "The same time it always does." in a less than polite manner.

 

Like Jim, I tried to talk about the cramped accommodations for prior events and was completely blown off rather rudely as though I were the only person with a complaint. Any kind of complaint or suggestion that doesn't appear to originate with Robert seems to be treated with scorn.

 

I will not be attending CommVEx 2017. (No surprise there for anyone that knows me) And if there is another option to attend instead, either in Vegas or any other part of Nevada (Reno's nice not bad, and I bet the rooms are cheaper!) or California, I will make every attempt to either attend that instead or in some other way contribute just as I would have tried to do in some fashion with CommVEx had the management been more open to outside input or even discussion. I'd like to thank Jim for finally forcing the issue and either making CommVEx a better event or starting something even more enjoyable however this works out.

 

As a quick side note (but not to derail anything, please) I would like to apologize to everyone who attended for my behavior at the event this year. It was largely limited to my own small group of people, but I know it impacted on the wider event as a whole. It was the culmination of many months worth of debilitating stress and depression and I've been working on recovery since then.

 

Thank you for the input. Could i please have your first name & last initial for non-attending list? Thanks!

[TellarHK]

Thank you for the input. Could i please have your first name & last initial for non-attending list? Thanks!

Sorry about that, I'm Joshua Johnston, from up in Carson City. Of course I'd forget to put that in there.

[flnettles]

Well, I've spoken to Al, our 5C's president, who is upset and trying to side with Robert on this. According to him, 5C's is still part of the show unless and until our club takes an official vote. I've sent out a notice on this to our core group who actually comes to the meetings, and he is apparently bringing in a number of "old" members who haven't attended in a couple or more years. So, all of us in 5C's who are in favor of a new event (I'm one for sure) will need to be at our Jan 21st meeting for an important vote. Personally I won't be attending CommVEx no matter what happens, and I suspect the actual "movers and shakers" of 5C's will agree. We'll know more in January,

 

Incidentally, here is part of an email from Robert before things got so crazy:

 

If you were planning a massive 5-table spread, like 2016, then that
would be hard to do. You just have to scale back your expectations.
A smaller 2-system set-up like you had at CGE would be more portable,
and you could keep any gear in my California Hotel room overnight.
For CommVEx 2017, we at FCUG will be scaling back and making do with
what we have, given the circumstances. We'll bringing in systems
that are quicker to set up and to take down - LCD monitors instead of
CRT monitors, SD2IEC card drives instead of 1541/1571 drives, even
SX-64's. Efficiency is the key. In fact, at our club meetings in
the next months, we're going to practice setting-up and taking-down
the systems. (Heh, will I be timing them with a stopwatch?!)

 

Timing them with a stopwatch? Oh my God. That sure sounds like a fun meeting. Maybe they should call it Mini-Vex.

 

Thanks for the above posts. I'm terrible with names, which group or groups are you guys with? And, we really do want all opinions up here so if anyone is actually in FAVOR of keeping 5C's involved in CommVEx, please post that up here too.

 

Forrest Nettles

Vp, 5C's

[flnettles]

Oh, and a heartfelt thanks to Chad James, 5C's member who "rescued" us from the difficulties and deleted posts/threads on the other board, and making it possible for us to openly discuss all this.

Forrest

[cjameslv]

Oh, and a heartfelt thanks to Chad James, 5C's member who "rescued" us from the difficulties and deleted posts/threads on the other board, and making it possible for us to openly discuss all this.

Forrest

No problem, we live in a republic where everyone has a say and our club presidents must represent the majority votes. There is no monarchy and robert can not treat it as such.

[TellarHK]

If you were planning a massive 5-table spread, like 2016, then that

would be hard to do. You just have to scale back your expectations.

 

*snip*

 

Efficiency is the key. In fact, at our club meetings in

the next months, we're going to practice setting-up and taking-down

the systems. (Heh, will I be timing them with a stopwatch?!)

 

"Let's take the actual Commodore hardware out of a Commodore convention, that'll make it workable."

 

Please for the love of all that is 65xx, I hope whatever happens due to all this mess involves management where people can actually reserve table space well in advance. The very first lesson I learned about attending a CommVEx was to show up super early, or you might as well sit on the floor in front of the projector. It's true that not everyone needs to bring every machine they own, but actually having some space to stretch out with what you have is rather important when you have that many folks and computers crammed into a room together. Especially since it seems a significant number of attendees will have some vintage hardware, and a modern laptop, too. Fortunately, I get a feeling that there won't be much of an issue getting some support for that suggestion around here.

[flnettles]

Anyone who is interested in joining 5C's, the dues are $12/year and we have monthly 64 disks as well as a monthly DVD that covers 64, Amiga and limited PC. Also voting via email is possible, and the vote will essentially be an up or down vote, Meetings are the 3rd Saturday of each month. Next meeting is Jan 21st. On the agenda: 1. Do we pull out of CommVEx and 2. Do we open up a seperate new event and venue, more info available from me, flnettles@hotmail.com

[Hitek]

Given the restrictions for the location, I will not be attending CommVeX in 2017. Any one of those restrictions would be grounds to seek another venue. All of them together makes this a non-starter for me. I have a lot of respect for Robert Bernardo, but not taking input from attendees and flat-out banning people because you don't want to hear what they have to say seems rather immature, and I didn't expect that level of behavior from him.

 

Keith G.

[sncboom2k]

Sorry - John Ferrell - Sncbbom2k

 

Thanks
​John F.

[Wildstar]

Anyone who is interested in joining 5C's, the dues are $12/year and we have monthly 64 disks as well as a monthly DVD that covers 64, Amiga and limited PC. Also voting via email is possible, and the vote will essentially be an up or down vote, Meetings are the 3rd Saturday of each month. Next meeting is Jan 21st. On the agenda: 1. Do we pull out of CommVEx and 2. Do we open up a seperate new event and venue, more info available from me, flnettles@hotmail.com

 

I like to know where and how to send the dues. Just curious. I'm based in Astoria, Oregon.

[flnettles]

 

A 64 system that the Fresno group can set up and take down in mere SECONDS and be carried in a pocket!

Edited December 28, 2016 by flnettles

[flnettles]

Another disadvantage to the room at the California hotel, and one I had forgotten about, is a MAJOR safety hazard. This room has ONE electrical station with only FOUR outlets. To have CommVex here will require a large spiderweb-like array of electrical and extension cords. I am surprised that the hotel will even allow this, and I wonder if they even know.

Edited December 28, 2016 by flnettles

[flnettles]

To the Commodore Community:

 

Jim Drew and Tim Waite have asked if 5C's could step up to the plate and hold a separate Commodore event, one with free admission and a $50/per table charge to display or for sellers. How many of you would be interested? How many attendees and how many vendors/sellers? This would take some immediate action to plan out such an event. How many clubs would be displaying? So please post here or email me at flnettles@hotmail.com with your requests, questions, ideas and plans to participate if we can make this happen!

 

Forrest Nettles

VP, 5C's (Clark County Commodore Computer Club, Las Vegas)

[TellarHK]

I'm certainly on board with this idea, and would be happy to pay $50 for a table reservation. Count me in and let me know where to send money when the time comes.

[JimDrew]

Actually, I stated $25 per table - with most people I chatted with wanting at least 2 tables. Also, I don't mind organizing the event, but I would really appreciate help from the 5C's for handling publicity, setup, logistics, etc. We can talk about that at the meeting on the 21st.

 

Let's face it, most people coming are not from Las Vegas, so you are already spending hundreds of dollars just to attend the event. Whether the event is $25 for admission or $25 for a table, the cost is the same. However, admission being free is a HUGE benefit because you can now open the event to the public, and there are many avenues in Las Vegas for free publicity to attract the general public. Why would we want the general public there? That's the only way to grow the size of the event! So, charging for table space at the same rate as CommVEx's "admission" cost yields the same cost for participants that want to setup a table and brings in more people to check out the event - which will want to attend in the future, maybe even the same day - who knows!?

 

I kicked in $600 last year, but I didn't use 24 tables. I used 4 tables, and there was plenty of space for everyone. I also paid admission for a couple of individuals just so that they would actually come and check out the event.

 

This event is not a money making venture for anyone. If the event breaks even, that is great, but you certainly are going to shrink the event and create animosity if you are unwilling to listen to what the people want. I have been attending trade shows since the first World of Commodore show in the early 80's, all the way up until now at NAB, CES, Sema, etc. The organizers have rules, but they certainly go out of their way to listen to vendors and spectators alike to make improvements, and that is why these successful shows are still around.

Edited December 28, 2016 by JimDrew

[omnicron]

I wanted to chime in.

 

When I had heard about the new venue, I was not happy. Knowing the situation I doubted it would change. I was just planning on making a trip to commvex and if the show was not good, just making it a Vegas trip. I knew this new venue with the restrictions was not going to be take well.

 

I am very happy to hear that others feel the same and want to improve a new show at an appropriate venue hopefully here in Vegas. I will be joining 5C and giving my vote in the upcoming meeting on the 21st on a new show.

 

Problem is now, even if Robert were to change the show back to a venue that worked for this type of event, too many people will not attend the show due to the inappropriate behavior of Robert in banning and trying to control any discussion or discontent on the unilateral choice of venue. Of the core people I have talked to, NONE wants to go to an event that Robert runs due to this.

 

I do not understand Robert's inability to understand that the venue at the California does not work for a large majority of attendees, supporters or vendors. It is almost like he has intentionally agreed to this limited venue to make the show so restrictive as to limit the ability of people to bring a lot of equipment or wares to sell to keep the show smaller for him to manage. His comment that people just can not bring multi tables full or gear and need to time themselves as to pack and unpack their equipment does not lend itself to this type of hobby. I did see last year that Robert was very tired and seemed overwhelmed. Although the larger room was very nice and I had a good time, a lot of the details and presentation times of the event were not well planned out. There is only so much one person can do. I think a show that has multiple actors and organizations to allow continual growth and success is vital to the success of OUR show.

 

 

 

Now, we can only move forward. I hope that all the people that will not attend Commvex WILL support a new show and venue and continue support of OUR hobby. This hobby is not out of obligation, it is out of the joy we gain from playing, working and using our favorite platform that inspired all of us as children, teenagers or younger adults. Remember that Christmas we opened our first c64 and data-cassette? What about the first time we saw a C64 at K-mart and marveled at the demo disk running the amazing music. The sharing of our memories, machines, experiences, programs and time is what this hobby is about now. Don't let this be destroyed due to one person. Lets work together and make a show for all users that we can all enjoy!

 

Tim W.

Edited December 28, 2016 by omnicron

[flnettles]

$25 per table sounds even better, I had thot it was to be more. My earlier thot was $25 for display only, and maybe $50 for sellers, but if everyone thinks $25 is better then I agree. And Tim is right in his observations.

Forrest