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#126 Sauron OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:13 PM

Wow you're being salty because JB has more skills than you? You said that Doger was a public demo so everybody could make a full-fledge game out of it, and don't modify my reply 'cause i know someone who did the same thing ;) it seems that Reboot is finally showing their true faces.

 

I feel I need to make an apology to you. I mistook you for being someone of reasonable intelligence. Now that I see that you equate someone who wrote a demo game from scratch as having less skills than someone who is simply reusing said code to make the same game with different graphics, it's apparent I was quite wrong.

 

 

Oh and then explain to me why CJ's ST ports are exactly what you said, Copypasted?

 

The ST ports are something entirely different than what's going on here, but then someone of your intelligence level can't be expected to understand such a simple matter. Anyways, welcome to mod preview.



#127 Sauron OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:28 PM

 
There is nothing wrong with asking questions, isn't that how you learn? Did it say anywhere that we were NOT allowed to use the tutorials as a starting point for our own projects? I mean shit maybe I'm just stupid, maybe I need you to upload a RB+ rulebook.
It can start out like this
Rule #1 we will show you a little bit how to do stuff, but do NOT copy our method come up with your own!
Rule #2  we will insult you if you ask too many questions or plan to ever make any money                        

 

The issue here isn't asking questions. The issue is you asking questions while reusing code from a tutorial and then selling it as your own game.

 

I don't know how long you've been around game development circles, but it's generally a matter of good etiquette to not reuse someone else's code without permission in a product that you're selling. I don't remember if there was any such statement in the documentation for rB+, but generally it shouldn't matter. Everyone was happy to help you out when you were just playing around the tutorial, but the moment you started putting copies up for sale is when the good will towards your efforts started going out the window.

 

Just in case you haven't grasped this concept yet, let me spell it out for you here. Reusing other's code in a commercial product without permission or acknowledgement is bad etiquette.



#128 Jeffrey_Bones ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:43 PM

Im not insulting any of you! I am grateful for RB+. and DOGER!!!!!  And I wouldn't go as far as to say I am better than any of them Roberth. That is a bit much!!!! He is being sour though, to an extent I can understand his frustration, (He created Doger)  on the other hand it's totally insane to think that somebody wouldn't want to take it further! 

I just won't ask for help anymore.

No fighting.

If I can create a 3D script for a 2D engine and create one of the most bad ass DKC fan games of all time, I can figure out RB+ it's just going to take more time without any help. (think I have already proved I understand how it works now)

And for the record I don't want anybody to write the game for me. I am still learning



#129 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:10 PM

Look, I don't have any skin in this at all.

 

I made RAPTOR (the API) - this is used in rB+ as the back end HAL, but rB+ isn't mine. I certainly didn't write 'doger' or design any of the assets used.

 

Asking for help is fine, and people will always help if it is reasonable, and up to the point that you started selling this people (including myself) were quite willing to assist you.

 

However, once you started selling what is basically a tutorial example I (personally, me, not anyone else) feel you crossed a line. You claim you added a bunch of things to it and it isn't the demo, but then you've posted the code and it clearly is. Not only that, the questions you have asked clearly show you have no understanding of how it actually works - telling TXG to 'delete a line from the _RAPINIT.S file' shows a total lack of comprehension regarding what you are doing.

 

Promises have been made, things have been sold, words have been said.  At the end of the day, this will all come back on you, either good or bad. History will decide, not me or anyone else.

 

If you'd like to continue working on 'Centipedez' or any of your other games I'm sure people would be more than happy to assist.



#130 Sauron OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:13 PM

 it's totally insane to think that somebody wouldn't want to take it further! 

 

You've completely missed the point. Go back and reread what I wrote earlier. Better yet, I'll just quote it here.

 

 

Reusing other's code in a commercial product without permission or acknowledgement is bad etiquette.



#131 omf OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:20 PM

I'll be more specific.

 

Doger is a tutorial. It's there to help people get a leg up, a super-simple project that puts the basics of rb+ in the context of a simple working project. The idea is to read through all the tutorials and view Doger as a simple demonstration of the things you read about previously, then maybe use it to play around with things, chop it up, change things around, see how your alterations affect the game as it is played - a bit of a simple sandbox project to fanny around in.

 

What Doger isn't is a project to cut & paste without understanding any of it, swap the assets out of and claim it as your own game.

 

If you had worked through the tutorials and gained even a very basic understanding of what the simple routines in Doger actually do, your issue would stand out like a sore thumb and there would be no time wasted making youtube videos and making posts, you'd be on with making "your" game.

 

I find it quite sad and somewhat disheartening to see you here asking such questions, posting the project including .BAS file that demonstrates that I was correct in thinking that you'd done nothing much to the code other than managing to break collision detection and introduced other issues... and now you're back here wanting people to write the game for you.

 

Well that's just not in the spirit of things, is it?

 

You've now sold 8 copies of "your" game on eBay at $20 each. I have a solution.

 

Cancel that listing. Promise to not be a dick anymore and not sell other people's work as your own. Take that $160 and donate it to the ACLU. Post the receipt here.

 

A short while after you do all that, I'll post the fixes to "your" game and you'll be able to have 2 frogz running around the screen.

 

 

 
I'm not being a dick.
Honestly dude do you think I'm out on the beach right now eating caviar with supermodels from Frogz 64 DEMO sales?
If it's such a simple game, Why are you so offended by me using it as a starting point for something BETTER?
You are right it is a tutorial at heart. Which makes it BROKEN as a game. I intend to fix it. It was your collision that was off that I also intend to fix.
Guess what? The tutorials aren't very helpful AT ALL. They even say in the text they are not very technical. I would think that the people responsible for creating RB+ would be a bit more friendly to people wanting to use it for their projects? Let me be a little more specific... Dude do you want ME TO PAY YOU FOR THE BROKEN DOGER GAME BEFORE GOING ON?????
Since I have had to hear about your blood, sweat and tears over this thing I am trying to improve you say I added nothing... It took 7 hours to make that intro sequence and then several days to incorporate it into this game. I have gotten many compliments on the intro and am even helping another AA member make their own intro now.
I'm sorry to say this sh3-rg but I have learned a lot. You see RB+ doesn't have that magic swap assets button you seem to be under the false impression that it does.
There is nothing wrong with asking questions, isn't that how you learn? Did it say anywhere that we were NOT allowed to use the tutorials as a starting point for our own projects? I mean shit maybe I'm just stupid, maybe I need you to upload a RB+ rulebook.
It can start out like this
Rule #1 we will show you a little bit how to do stuff, but do NOT copy our method come up with your own!
Rule #2  we will insult you if you ask too many questions or plan to ever make any money
 
 
One more thing:
' ****************************************************
' * REMAINING GLOBAL VARIABLES USED IN DOGER GAME    *
' ****************************************************
DIM p1delay%            :   p1delay=0                               ' player 1 movement delay
DIM p2delay%            :   p2delay=0                               ' player 2 movement delay
DIM framecounter%       :   framecounter=0    
 
 
  framecounter++                                                  ' Add 1 to the frame counter. It ticks over as screen refreshes.
    p1delay++
    p2delay++

    VSYNC           


I wont make the mistake of "coming around here asking for help" anymore                                               

 

 

Look, I don't have any skin in this at all.

 

I made RAPTOR (the API) - this is used in rB+ as the back end HAL, but rB+ isn't mine. I certainly didn't write 'doger' or design any of the assets used.

 

Asking for help is fine, and people will always help if it is reasonable, and up to the point that you started selling this people (including myself) were quite willing to assist you.

 

However, once you started selling what is basically a tutorial example I (personally, me, not anyone else) feel you crossed a line. You claim you added a bunch of things to it and it isn't the demo, but then you've posted the code and it clearly is. Not only that, the questions you have asked clearly show you have no understanding of how it actually works - telling TXG to 'delete a line from the _RAPINIT.S file' shows a total lack of comprehension regarding what you are doing.

 

Promises have been made, things have been sold, words have been said.  At the end of the day, this will all come back on you, either good or bad. History will decide, not me or anyone else.

 

If you'd like to continue working on 'Centipedez' or any of your other games I'm sure people would be more than happy to assist.

I would like to bring your attention to http://atariage.com/forums/topic/243746-wip-kaboom/?p=3572312 for further evidence that other peoples work is used without asking



#132 Jeffrey_Bones ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:27 PM

The issue here isn't asking questions. The issue is you asking questions while reusing code from a tutorial and then selling it as your own game.
 
I don't know how long you've been around game development circles, but it's generally a matter of good etiquette to not reuse someone else's code without permission in a product that you're selling. I don't remember if there was any such statement in the documentation for rB+, but generally it shouldn't matter. Everyone was happy to help you out when you were just playing around the tutorial, but the moment you started putting copies up for sale is when the good will towards your efforts started going out the window.
 
Just in case you haven't grasped this concept yet, let me spell it out for you here. Reusing other's code in a commercial product without permission or acknowledgement is bad etiquette.


I think i grasp the concept. Its rude. Well i assumed it was ok to use the tutorials as a starting point. Thats why I have been so open about the whole thing like uploading the entire project folder here.
Still he is suggesting i cancel the project and let him fix the 2 player thing. I never asked him to do anything i just asked for help. I like my Frogz concept and dont want to kill it!

#133 omf OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:34 PM

Perhaps a better approach would have been to take dodger work on it, ask for help, make it better, make it a full game, accumulate knowledge, once all knowledge had been acquired release the game binary and or full source for others to do the same.

 

then, the current issue(s) would in my opinion not be here right now

 

the main issue I see here is you have been / are selling it.

 

save that for something you write yourself from scratch, then no one will have a problem. in fact people will welcome it.



#134 ggn OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:16 AM

Sigh... you guys all had your fun? Wrote your insults at each other etc etc?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great, I'm happy for you.

 

Next post that's off topic will get deleted without warning. First and final warning - Jagu-retardo-dramaz out. Goes for the rest of this subforum too.


Edited by ggn, Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:17 AM.


#135 Jeffrey_Bones ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:53 AM

sorry



#136 Jeffrey_Bones ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:54 AM



#137 Jeffrey_Bones ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:25 AM

* fixed player 2 problem came here asking for help for

* decided to hide player 2 frog at startup by putting RSETOBJ(player2, R_sprite_active, R_is_inactive) before the main game loop

* added subroutine for reactivating the player 2 object by pressing B on jagpad 2

* decided to have a cool sound effect for player 2 joining the game so recorded my voice saying "player 2 go!"  (this was done by first recording a sound in .wav format then changing the pitch to make it sound alien-ish using the program Audacity then using Switch sound file converter to convert the file to .raw format, I then added the new sound into .assets and added it to the u-235 sound file list.)

* added a line of code underneath the same line of code that calls for the player 2 frog to reappear saying play the sound.

* Lets do an echo effect! did the same thing on 2 different channels!


Edited by Jeffrey_Bones, Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:26 AM.


#138 Jeffrey_Bones ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:48 PM

* last entry in tonights devlog

added a scroller for player 2 activation because you know me I'm just over here swapping out graphics and still trying to get a grasp on how it all works and basic understanding. I'm kind of a slow learner being that I have zero experience programming anything. Hopefully one day I will get a basic understanding. Stupid me! there is a tutorial on how to do a scroller I didn't even look at! I just did it my own way by making the object move with -3,$8000 and then using edge_kill. I guess I'll never learn :(

 

Well I still had time to play around and make one of those silly intros for another game project of mine. Got it at 23 frames 8 bit color.

Attached File  Honeycam 2017-02-15 19-40-55.gif   633.7KB   2 downloads


Edited by Jeffrey_Bones, Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:05 PM.


#139 Jeffrey_Bones ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:39 PM

I apologize to you Clint Thompson for me ruining your thread. I apologize to you sh3-rg for using your tutorial in ways you do not approve of without your permission. To everyone else I sincerely apologize for being a pain. I assure you I DO have good intentions, and I will make some good contributions to the scene. I'm sorry guys. :(


Edited by Jeffrey_Bones, Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:40 PM.


#140 KidGameR186496 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:59 PM

I apologize to you Clint Thompson for me ruining your thread. I apologize to you sh3-rg for using your tutorial in ways you do not approve of without your permission. To everyone else I sincerely apologize for being a pain. I assure you I DO have good intentions, and I will make some good contributions to the scene. I'm sorry guys. :(

i'm aslo have to make an apology to Clint for derailing this thread, sorry man :(

#141 Clint Thompson OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:52 AM

I've put this away for a while because I just got far too busy with real life and this tends to be very time consuming but I'm slowing getting back into the groove and have some questions:

 

1. Bandwidth being an issue with the amount of objects on-screen - if say I have 20 objects loaded up and they're all but 1 set to inactive, the object processor doesn't have to be bogged down or bothered with those until they actually DO become active, correct?

 

which brings me to my next question

 

2. I've tried activating an inactive sprite after I press a button, say the C button... and then have it CALL a SUB routine. However, that never seems to work. I have all objects with the exception of title screen shut off or moved so the other sprite should display, yet it's not. Going from the Doger example, why when pressing B is the image just moved completely off the screen instead of being set to inactive, thus revealing the underlying parts? I tried doing that and it appears to be working but that didn't resolve my issue with trying to activate other pre-deactivated pictures. I've spent hours going back and forth and over it but for something so simple, can't seem to see the mistake I'm making.

 

So instead of trying to dig through the mess and find what I'm doing wrong, can an example for activating and deactivating pictures be given?:

 

Let's say I have the title screen, press B to shut it off, which then jumps to a subroutine. The background image is already setup and displayed but let's say I want to make a sprite active on top. Should I just keep it active and remove it off the screen completely at the top using -x, -y parameters and then re-adjust the x,y once the title screen disappears from a subroutine call or keep it at the top as inactive and then only enable it once I get to the gameplay screen?

 

Which sort of loops back to the first question - if I keep all these things active but just move them completely off the screen, is it still hogging up bandwidth despite being out of site, out of mind? or is it actually degrading performance as I continue to add objects?

 

Thanks!



#142 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:42 PM

The first and last objects in a list have to be active.

 

Inactive objects are skipped, however the Object Linked List will still gain size, eventually causing the OP to run out of bandwidth.

 

It's best to split each separate screen (titles, game, game over, etc) into it's own individual list.





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