Coleco Envy

[VicViper]

Any one else jealous of all the support the Coleco Homebrew gets? Don't get me wrong, PacManPlus is a god, and anyone else who works to make the amazing games we have for the 7800 are pillars of this community. I personally believe the 7800 is a superior machine to the Coleco; Better color pallette, better scrolling, and the console itself is much more attractive. Still, has a huge Konami fan, it's hard not to peer over that fence to all the great MSX ports Coleco is getting from the guys at OpCode (I'm looking at you, Gradius.) Is it just a matter of how easy it is to port over MSX games? Is the 7800 difficult to program for? or is there just not enough support from the 7800 community to justify putting the time and hard work into development?

Edited February 5, 2017 by VicViper

[7800JAGFAN]

I might be wrong, but I think the ti994a, msx and colecovision all are the same or close to the same system, so I might be a more direct port.

[VicViper]

I might be wrong, but I think the ti994a, msx and colecovision all are the same or close to the same system, so I might be a more direct port.

Yes, these and the SG-1000 are all very similair, so I am sure it is a factor.

[Jinks]

I bought a coleco. You need to buy 2 more things 1. an sgm 2. sgm games. Both are pretty pricey and are limited with pre orders and 1-3years wait. In the end the scrolling is choppy and your left holding a uncomfortable telephone controller on a extremely flaky system that has tons of common problems, vdp, vram, controller ic, rf module, corroded boards.

Opcodes products look very professional and well programmed given the colecos limitations. The coleco can not scroll anywhere near like the 7800 can from what I have seen.

For the 7800 to have more support the computer guys would have to become interested or vcs guys looking for still an atari system to program for with less limitations.

[DracIsBack]

They both have star homebrewers, and other platforms bring both up as examples of great homebrew scenes.

 

Pacman Plus has made dozens of games himself.

 

 

 

Is it just a matter of how easy it is to port over MSX games? Is the 7800 difficult to program for? or is there just not enough support from the 7800 community to justify putting the time and hard work into development?

 

Homebrewing is not done "for the money" on any platform. It's a labour of love for the homebrewer more than anything else. The community is the one that benefits

Edited February 5, 2017 by DracIsBack

[VicViper]

I bought a coleco. You need to buy 2 more things 1. an sgm 2. sgm games. Both are pretty pricey and are limited with pre orders and 1-3years wait. In the end the scrolling is choppy and your left holding a uncomfortable telephone controller on a extremely flaky system that has tons of common problems, vdp, vram, controller ic, rf module, corroded boards.

Opcodes products look very professional and well programmed given the colecos limitations. The coleco can not scroll anywhere near like the 7800 can from what I have seen.

For the 7800 to have more support the computer guys would have to become interested or vcs guys looking for still an atari system to program for with less limitations.

Yeah, My Coleco has a flaky power switch. The limited run aspect of the games is a major turnoff too.

[VicViper]

They both have star homebrewers, and other platforms bring both up as examples of great homebrew scenes.

 

Pacman Plus has made dozens of games himself.

 

 

Homebrewing is not done "for the money" on any platform. It's a labour of love for the homebrewer more than anything else. The community is the one that benefits

All truth, and once again, Praise be to PMP, hallowed be his name Makes me wish i took up programming in my youth.

[Jinks]

We have to be thankfull for the support the 7800 has.

[VicViper]

We have to be thankfull for the support the 7800 has.

Thankful for what we have, wishful for more. Also, plan on spending a good chunk of change on the 7800 section of the store once the tax check and Bentley Bear arrive.

Edited February 5, 2017 by VicViper

[Trebor]

There are a lot of different factors including some already mentioned. Regardless of what platform being discussed, off the bat, you need an individual to have at least these things:

 

1. Enough interest in the platform system to the point of wanting to develop for it.

2. Possess the necessary skill and knowledge.

3. The free time and other resources to do so.

 

Meatloaf would agree that 2 out of 3 ain't bad, but it is not enough. Even after hitting all three check marks, the next point is: 4. The determination/situation to see it through.

 

The ColecoVision community is very fortunate to have Eduardo and Grazi handling that platform, and their releases (Via OpCode), as a full-time business. They are very dedicated and have done an outstanding job on both the hardware and software front. Similar can be stated about software releases involving CollectorVision, Pixelboy, and a bunch of others I'm currently not thinking of (I.E. Daniel Bienvenu - "Godfather" of ColecoVision homebrew games).

 

ColecoVision releases are continuing to flourish and that's awesome.

 

Checking the homebrew and hacks thread for the 7800, there is a tremendous amount of potential, when looking at what has been completed and what was only seen as demos or 'piece(s)' of games. Here's a list of what would be accomplished if all 4 of the check marks would continue to have fulfillment against the items in that thread:

 

 

 

-Zelda/Golden Axe Warrior/Adventure-type

-Moon Patrol

-Double Dragon (Re-make)

-Gorf

-UFO!

-Warbirds

-Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars

-Dungeon!

-Fruitarian

-Hover Bovver

-Icy

-Outpost 26

-Tempest

-Phoenix

-Bear Arms

-BlocDrop/Arcade Tetris

-Rolling Thunder

-Bomberman

-Ultima/Final Fantasy/RPG-type

-Adventure III

-Clean Sweep

-Area 78

-Dream Princess Adventure

-Dark Tower

-Defender

-Graze Suit Alpha

-Battlezone

-Bullet Festival

-ReZolve

-PinOut

-Bubble Booble

-Robbo

-Castlevania

-Elevator Action

-Gyruss

-Prince of Persia

-Sinistar

-Sky Scraper 2115

-Wonder Boy

-Arkanoid

-Get Lost!

-Serpentine

-3D Maze/Dungeon Crawler

The titles in the above spoiler are only those we have seen something for; additionally, who knows what other games may be kept private, is still being worked on or abandoned. Someday, something perhaps will be completed for the above list (and released on cart); however, right now nothing further for a plethora of reasons.

Still, people like kenfused, gambler172, frankodragon, GroovyBee, Crazyace, KevinMos3, PacManPlus, Der Luchs, RevEng, Justin De Lucia, Eric Ball, Blue Azure, supercat, tep392, Heaven of Taquart, Atarius Maximus, Sebastian Mihai, Mord, rockman_x_2002, Synthpopalooza, seemo, Jess Ragan, Papa, Thomas Mathys, Vantage, pacgreg, Defender_2600, Harry Dodgson, PAC-MAN-RED, Bruce Tomlin, Propane13, Roy, Schmutzpuppe, SiO2, tdididit, SmittyB, and others (Apologies for those missed), have worked in one capacity or/and another in providing some software game support for the console.

 

To say the very least of all the backend and hardware support...PCB's for cartridges, programming assistance, hardware/software documentation, and research from a slew of individuals: Dan Boris, Mitch, RevEng, Chad Schell, CPUWiz, batari, PacManPlus, santosp, Albert, Curt Vendel, MobiusAqua, jwierer, mateos, and others (Again, apologies to anyone overlooked).

 

It is quite an impressive list when really pondered. Circumstances can change overnight though for anything and anyone; what the future holds...Que sera, sera.

 

Meanwhile, looking forward to the mass distribution of Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest, Froggie, Super Circus Atari Age, and T:ME Salvo from the AtariAge store.

[+save2600]

Totally hear you about being envious sometimes. I often think about the ports that could potentially hit the TI-99/4A too, but no dice. Not a fan of the Colecovision controller at all and not a huge fan of the system in general, but damn are they getting some great games lately with more on the horizon!

 

My go-to vintage system has, and forever want it to be the 7800 though. Such a cool and compelling system. We've got better controller alternatives now, several top notch and unique arcade ports and new stuff trickling out here and there still. Yes, I too always wish for more, but what can you do? If you can't program yourself or set the time aside to learn, can support what's available and hope more like-minded stuff is in the works. Long live the Atari 7800!

[PacManPlus]

Couldn't have said it better than Trebor

Thanks for the compliment, guys - I do appreciate it!

 

There are many people both in front of and behind the scenes that work on the 7800 to bring these games to the community. We are lucky to have them!

[+SmittyB]

I have a habit of enjoying consoles more for what they can do over than what was released. I tried to get into assembly for the C64 but the memory structure was a pain to work around, I tried assembly for the 2600 and managed to get a couple of simple programs working but nothing amazing. The 7800 is a lovely combination of the 2 and 7800 BASIC lets me get around the DLL management that initially put me off.

 

The 'can do a lot but has (relatively) little' nature of the 7800 makes it very fun and appealing to me. For anyone wanting to learn programming I'd strongly recommend 7800 BASIC (with a touch of assembly).

 

All this and I don't have any nostalgia for the thing, it's just a good machine to work on.

[Papa]

All I have to do for any and ALL of that envy to vanish is pick up that wedgie pinching exercise machine of a controller and try to dial someone with it.

 

GIVE ME A BREAK!

 

Colecovision is, uh.. okay.

 

I would get one for the above mentioned homebrews (Mecha 8 is the green giant S#IT it's so awesome! And PQ is fantastical!), but the controllers are STUPID! Here's how were gonna do it, okay. You need to reach up under the thing and pinch up and this is 'fire'! While you're at it you can dial phone numbers or pull on a stiff mushroom (you could have saved a LOT of money just picking a wedgie every couple of minutes and scratching yourself).

 

And ATARI AGE! WTF?

 

 

Atari Age! Where I go for all my SG-1000 on Colecovision needs!! (*permanently crossed eyes)

 

 

GET A 7800! GET A 2 BUTTON GAMEPAD (unless you want a carpel tunnel wedgie claw)! AND YELL "ATARI" AT COLECO!!

 

 

I HAVE YOU NOW!!

[Jinks]

All I have to do for any and ALL of that envy to vanish is pick up that wedgie pinching exercise machine of a controller and try to dial someone with it.

 

GIVE ME A BREAK!

 

Colecovision is, uh.. okay.

 

I would get one for the above mentioned homebrews (Mecha 8 is the green giant S#IT it's so awesome! And PQ is fantastical!), but the controllers are STUPID! Here's how were gonna do it, okay. You need to reach up under the thing and pinch up and this is 'fire'! While you're at it you can dial phone numbers or pull on a stiff mushroom (you could have saved a LOT of money just picking a wedgie every couple of minutes and scratching yourself).

 

And ATARI AGE! WTF?

 

 

Atari Age! Where I go for all my SG-1000 on Colecovision needs!! (*permanently crossed eyes)

 

 

GET A 7800! GET A 2 BUTTON GAMEPAD (unless you want a carpel tunnel wedgie claw)! AND YELL "ATARI" AT COLECO!!

 

 

I HAVE YOU NOW!!

Could not have said it better!

 

Atari kicks the crap outa the cabbage patch and barbi phone controller consoles!!

 

A stiff mushroom eh?

[VicViper]

Couldn't have said it better than Trebor

Thanks for the compliment, guys - I do appreciate it!

 

There are many people both in front of and behind the scenes that work on the 7800 to bring these games to the community. We are lucky to have them!

I hope nobody takes my post as an attack on the current community at all, I'm very thankfull for all the hard work from all the great people we have.

[VicViper]

Could not have said it better!

 

Atari kicks the crap outa the cabbage patch and barbi phone controller consoles!!

 

A stiff mushroom eh?

Yes, the Coleco sucking a fat one is part of the problem

[VicViper]

And the Coleco pack in controller is Garbage! (hides Pro-line behind back.)

[+pboland]

I wish I could program for the 7800, but I can't. I don't know if it helps, but I am working on a 1984 like style reproduction label set for the 7800. I know it's not much, but it's a start. I think the 7800 is a great platform. Part of the problem is people don't think of it when you think pre crash systems. They tend to think about it with the NES and SMS. I look at it kind of like a bridge system between the crash and post crash time.

[VicViper]

I wish I could program for the 7800, but I can't. I don't know if it helps, but I am working on a 1984 like style reproduction label set for the 7800. I know it's not much, but it's a start. I think the 7800 is a great platform. Part of the problem is people don't think of it when you think pre crash systems. They tend to think about it with the NES and SMS. I look at it kind of like a bridge system between the crash and post crash time.

Anything is great! I've been keeping an eye on these for a while. torn between removing original labels to put these on though, even though they are nicer.

[BillyHW]

I'm not a programmer, but I believe the Coleco contains off-the-shelf parts that are very common across a wide range of different systems/computers. Whereas I believe the 7800 hardware is more custom parts. So that probably makes it easier to make games for the Coleco.

 

Also, Coleco probably has more interest because for a brief period it was probably #1 in mindshare for consoles (I'm thinking 1982 - 1984), so people have a memory of that. The 7800 was never anything more than the #3 console at the time it was released, and if you start including computers, it was way down the list for mindshare in the 80s.

Edited February 5, 2017 by BillyHW

[VicViper]

I'm not a programmer, but I believe the Coleco contains off-the-shelf parts that are very common across a wide range of different systems/computers. Whereas I believe the 7800 hardware is more custom parts. So that probably makes it easier to make games for the Coleco.

 

Also, Coleco probably has more interest because for a brief period it was probably #1 in mindshare for consoles (I'm thinking 1982 - 1984), so people have a memory of that. The 7800 was never anything more than the #3 console at the time it was released, and if you start including computers, it was way down the list for mindshare in the 80s.

Yeah, I really think the abundance of easily ported MSX / SG-1000 games make it relatively easy to pump out decent software quickly.

[The Usotsuki]

The MSX is basically a Colecovision as a computer - same CPU, same video hardware, similar sound hardware. That's probably why porting is so easy.

 

Part of me wishes, given Pac-Man Plus is an Apple //c fan too, that he'd work his magic on the Apple ][. I'd kill to see real ports of Scramble and Moon Cresta there - Nasir's (he of Final Fantasy fame) "Space Eggs" and "Neptune" just don't cut it.

[DracIsBack]

The 7800 was never anything more than the #3 console at the time it was released, and if you start including computers, it was way down the list for mindshare in the 80s.

 

Technically I think it was #2 in the USA

[BillyHW]

 

Technically I think it was #2 in the USA

 

Really? Here in Canada I remember seeing Sega Master System in the stores next to Nintendo NES, but never 7800. People I know had Sega, played Sega. Atari was non-existent in the late 80s here.