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The fail of NES hardware/gaming video from UK outlook


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#76 empsolo ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:53 PM

The instructions for Amiga version look OK to me, but I only finished the IBM version with a 2 button stick.
I think you just had to be a better player playing C64/Amiga games (1: quick tap for whip 2: press and hold down for other options....sounds good to me)
 
Scan10002_zpscvhpe0ub.jpg

Meanwhile in Japan at the same time, Both the Sharp X68000 and MSX had games that were compatible with more modern game pads and fighting sticks. This included Castlevania.


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Edited by empsolo, Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:56 PM.


#77 empsolo ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:55 PM

Playing The Eidolon on A8 we put the XE on the floor, controlling the Space Bar with your toes.


That's just extremely poor game mechanics and QOL.


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#78 Mayhem OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:04 PM

Many games used space bar as a second fire button. With the C64 though, space bar mapped to fire on the joystick in port 1, so you could just do that instead heh.



#79 Lost Dragon OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 9:14 AM

In the interests of balance..

If you look back at publishers etc talking about difficulties encountered bringing coin ops of the era to the Amiga, the single button joystick issue does rear it's head.

Adrian Curry, assistant producer on Amiga Mortal Kombat mentioned it early on in the games development and how, whilst he personally didn't like using the keyboard at the same time as the joystick, some Amiga owners might have like that option.

Not an arcade conversion,just a game very much inspired by likes of M.K and Street Fighter 2, but coders of Elfmania also noted there was always the issue of working things out for a 1 button joystick and how Street Fighter 2 treated 1 button joysticks as a burden..

#80 BassGuitari OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 2:13 PM

C64 games like Castlevania and TMNT should have just used the keyboard and ditched the joystick entirely. Wouldn't have been perfect but at least everything's in one place and there's none of that "press button to X, hold button to Y" nonsense. #hindsight



#81 Mayhem OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 4:18 PM

The games that were keyboard controlled on the C64 had that interface usually for good reasons. I'd really not want to play an action game like that most of the time.



#82 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 4:44 PM

That was for Spectrum users



#83 atarilovesyou OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 8:59 PM

Y'all talking about keyboards and whatnot...whatever.  You need at least two buttons to play games from 85 and later, so why it wasn't done for the Amiga or C-64, who knows.  They're computers, not consoles, and that's the point: why bother bringing up computers when you talk about video game CONSOLES?

 

Of course people didn't just stop playing games during the crash.  I played more computer games during that time (well, throughout it all in fact) than I ever did afterwards.  The Commodore was loved for what it was, but it was nothing in terms of popularity when the new wave of consoles ushered in by Nintendo. 

 

How people get this idea that there wasn't a crash...Crash Deniers, I say :D  It did in fact happen.  It spelled the doom for every major player in the console game in NA!  Sure you could play computer games during the drought before the NES brought everything back out in to the open, but the fact is that you were stuck playing whatever system you had before it all went down.

 

Let it be clear, nobody actually stopped playing video games: arcades were still king, and of course computers (really only the C64 offered what we were looking for in my neck of the woods, although plenty of Apple II stuff was going on.  Atari didn't seem to make much of an impact in my town, and after the VCS died off nobody was willing to put money into that company they associated with the game machine).  But everyone was just waiting for the 'next big thing'...and that was the NES.

 

I actually played a SMS before I ever touched an NES.  I thought it was great, and I always thought it was fun until I had a chance to play them both at length to compare in the late 80s.  Then it was clear.  No wonder the Brits liked the SMS, it was much more of a computer experience overall.  But much like the VHS vs BETA wars, you couldn't compete with the NES scope of games.  What that was doesn't matter, it was what it was.  It wouldn't have been any different had Nintendo marketed their 3rd party support differently, IMO, because Sega had a head start in the NA market by like a year.  It just didn't catch on, and Alex Kidd certainly wasn't going to do it.  Sega meant arcade games, and that's what most people associated the Master System with.  And while I loved arcade games, folks out there wanted something different: Super Mario Bros and Zelda and Metroid and Castlevania and the list goes on and on...

 

This retarded video implies that the reason the NES 'failed' in the UK was due to the NES not being good enough.  What a load of bollocks, as they say.  "It was too expensive!"  What?  So the reason why the NES failed was because the pirating of video games was so great in the UK that people weren't willing to pay for their entertainment?  Pirating was rampant over here as well, so I guess it didn't matter to North Americans...I don't think I ever saw ONE 'real' C64 game bar a couple cartridges (Blue Print, I believe it was).  To me, it sounds like sour grapes.  You can't afford it, so of course it was shit.  Listen, I'm sure the Master System was expensive too in the UK, so how that factors into it, I don't see it. 

 

The crash happened, it was real and it sucked ass.  It meant was that we couldn't buy new cartridges for our game systems, but we all still played and traded our old games.  That was the ONLY way.  Which is why it was such a relief and fun time when the NES came out and became a force much like the VCS did.  Arcades weren't places to take your kids back then in my town unless you wanted them to start drugs or maybe join a gang, so again, Nintendo made it possible for us to have a lot of fun just like we did with the Coleco and Atari, just with a lot more advanced games.  It was a great time to be gaming, and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything.  Nothing for me has been more fun than that period of time...well, other than those awesome few years before the crash itself.  I'd say for me it was 81 to 84.  And again from 87 to 91, around the time arcades were dying a second death.



#84 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Today, 3:55 AM

CGW100.jpg

 

 

 

Actually USA was COMPUTER GAMING up to the release of the dreaded NES. So what, you guys used a JOYSTICK or KEYBOARD or a combination of BOTH during that timespan? People in the USA used ATARI joysticks on C64, A8, as many US game instructions can reveal. IBM players used KEYBOARD. You guys had PROBLEMS using an CX40 on COMPUTERS? I don't thinks so.


Edited by high voltage, Today, 3:59 AM.


#85 empsolo ONLINE  

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Posted Today, 3:59 AM

CGW100.jpg
 
 
 
Actually after the 84 crash USA was COMPUTER GAMING up to the release of the dreaded NES. So what, you guys used a JOYSTICK or KEYBOARD or a combination of BOTH during that timespan? People in the USA used ATARI joysticks on C64, A8, as many US game instructions can reveal. You guys had PROBLEMS using an CX40 on COMPUTERS? I don't thinks so.


Except by 1985/86, the single button joystick was all but a dead letter here in the USA. The Atari 7800, the NES and the Master System all had two or more fire buttons.

Plus it seems that the NES ended up obliterating C64 sales as the C64 suffered from a sharp decline in sales each year the NES was available.


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#86 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Today, 4:05 AM

Y'all talking about keyboards and whatnot...whatever.  You need at least two buttons to play games from 85 and later, so why it wasn't done for the Amiga or C-64, who knows.  They're computers, not consoles, and that's the point: why bother bringing up computers when you talk about video game CONSOLES?

 

Of course people didn't just stop playing games during the crash.  I played more computer games during that time (well, throughout it all in fact) than I ever did afterwards.  The Commodore was loved for what it was, but it was nothing in terms of popularity when the new wave of consoles ushered in by Nintendo. 

 

How people get this idea that there wasn't a crash...Crash Deniers, I say :D  It did in fact happen.  It spelled the doom for every major player in the console game in NA!  Sure you could play computer games during the drought before the NES brought everything back out in to the open, but the fact is that you were stuck playing whatever system you had before it all went down.

 

Let it be clear, nobody actually stopped playing video games: arcades were still king, and of course computers (really only the C64 offered what we were looking for in my neck of the woods, although plenty of Apple II stuff was going on.  Atari didn't seem to make much of an impact in my town, and after the VCS died off nobody was willing to put money into that company they associated with the game machine).  But everyone was just waiting for the 'next big thing'...and that was the NES.

 

I actually played a SMS before I ever touched an NES.  I thought it was great, and I always thought it was fun until I had a chance to play them both at length to compare in the late 80s.  Then it was clear.  No wonder the Brits liked the SMS, it was much more of a computer experience overall.  But much like the VHS vs BETA wars, you couldn't compete with the NES scope of games.  What that was doesn't matter, it was what it was.  It wouldn't have been any different had Nintendo marketed their 3rd party support differently, IMO, because Sega had a head start in the NA market by like a year.  It just didn't catch on, and Alex Kidd certainly wasn't going to do it.  Sega meant arcade games, and that's what most people associated the Master System with.  And while I loved arcade games, folks out there wanted something different: Super Mario Bros and Zelda and Metroid and Castlevania and the list goes on and on...

 

This retarded video implies that the reason the NES 'failed' in the UK was due to the NES not being good enough.  What a load of bollocks, as they say.  "It was too expensive!"  What?  So the reason why the NES failed was because the pirating of video games was so great in the UK that people weren't willing to pay for their entertainment?  Pirating was rampant over here as well, so I guess it didn't matter to North Americans...I don't think I ever saw ONE 'real' C64 game bar a couple cartridges (Blue Print, I believe it was).  To me, it sounds like sour grapes.  You can't afford it, so of course it was shit.  Listen, I'm sure the Master System was expensive too in the UK, so how that factors into it, I don't see it. 

 

 

There was no video game crash in Europe.

 

I don't think the video is retarded.

 

I went to a game shop in UK witnessing the NES was reduced to GBP49,99, and the games were still GBP60,00. NES games were always stupidly expensive in UK, god knows why. SMS games were usually GBP29,99


Edited by high voltage, Today, 4:09 AM.


#87 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Today, 4:16 AM

Except by 1985/86, the single button joystick was all but a dead letter here in the USA. The Atari 7800, the NES and the Master System all had two or more fire buttons.

Plus it seems that the NES ended up obliterating C64 sales as the C64 suffered from a sharp decline in sales each year the NES was available.


 

All those consoles arrived nationwide in 1986 in the USA, so guys, stop using 1985 as timeline.

 

With NES monopolization had arrived in the USA.

 

In US antitrust law, monopolization is an offense and the main categories of prohibited behavior include exclusive dealing, price discrimination, refusing to supply an essential facility, product tying and predatory pricing. Monopolization is an offense under Section 2 of the American Sherman Antitrust Act 1890. It has a specific legal meaning, which is parallel to the "abuse" of a dominant position in EU competition law, under TFEU article 102. The Sherman Act 1890 §2 states that any person "who shall monopolize . . . any part of the trade or commerce among the several states, or with foreign nations shall be deemed guilty of a felony." Section 2 also forbids "attempts to monopolize" and "conspiracies to monopolize." Generally this means that corporations may not act in ways that have been identified as contrary to precedent cases.

 

USA = Turning a blind eye


Edited by high voltage, Today, 4:24 AM.


#88 high voltage OFFLINE  

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Posted Today, 4:56 AM

And very popular were the Competition Pro and the Spectravideo (1982) Joysticks anyway, those controllers had 2 buttons, that was nothing new.



#89 empsolo ONLINE  

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Posted Today, 7:45 AM

All those consoles arrived nationwide in 1986 in the USA, so guys, stop using 1985 as timeline.
 
With NES monopolization had arrived in the USA.

Except, the only console to breach 1 million in sales of hard ware units by end of fiscal year 1986 was the NES. Sega never even approached thier target of 500,000 units sold and the 7800 less so.
Mind you, Nintendo acchieved this on the strength of it's first party sales alone with third party games barely making a dent until well after 1987.


In US antitrust law, monopolization is an offense and the main categories of prohibited behavior include exclusive dealing, price discrimination, refusing to supply an essential facility, product tying and predatory pricing. Monopolization is an offense under Section 2 of the American Sherman Antitrust Act 1890. It has a specific legal meaning, which is parallel to the "abuse" of a dominant position in EU competition law, under TFEU article 102. The Sherman Act 1890 §2 states that any person "who shall monopolize . . . any part of the trade or commerce among the several states, or with foreign nations shall be deemed guilty of a felony." Section 2 also forbids "attempts to monopolize" and "conspiracies to monopolize." Generally this means that corporations may not act in ways that have been identified as contrary to precedent cases.
 
USA = Turning a blind eye

The Federal government had no case here. The federal government ended up dropping it's case and settling out of court because it had no evidence to bring any sort of formal charges against Nintendo. Even Congress was forced to drop it's investigation and basically all but admit that's it's investigation was part of the anti-japanese sentiment that had started in reaction to the arrival of japanese companies like Mitsubishi and Honda here in the US.




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