New to Apple II computers - with an Apple IIgs

[Calibus]

Hi,

back in the early 80s, I always wanted an Apple II - but their prices were out of my reach so I went the TRS-80 route instead.

Many many years later, I take a look on ebay and found a nice Apple IIgs system for less than $100 including shipping.

So - now I have a base unit (Rom 03), monitor, keyboard, mouse, 5.25 and 3.5 drives.

 

Absolutely no software though - so I picked up an ADTPro cable as a way to jump start a collection.

I have precious few blank floppies available to me - and am looking at getting some from floppydisk.com.

 

My question is - can the IIgs boot off of either drive - the 5.25 or the 3.5?

The drives daisy chain to each other - and then to the computer - I don't recall off hand if only one of the drives has a daisy chain port - or if they both did.

Does the order they appear in the daisy chain determine which drive is which?

I believe there was a sticker on the drives indicating one was a "1" and the other was "2"

 

My preference would be to buy some 3.5" floppies and use that drive as the primary/boot drive - if possible.

 

I've read about the CFFA3000 - but considering it's made out of pure unobtanium at this time, I ordered a BMOW Floppy-Emu and got on the list for the next batch of CFFA3000s.

 

I'm familiar with the asimov FTP site as the place to go for disk images (I have a shopping list of ones to look for from back in the Adventure International days) but I'm wondering if the format of the disk images on that site matters. i.e. - if I go with ProDos - can I read a disk created from an image that used DOS 3.3?

 

I just picked ProDos at random as the OS to learn - I obviously have no bias one way or the other between it or DOS 3.3

 

I did pull the battery out of the plastic holder in my IIgs last night - it looked fine - but has a date code of GM/08/89 - so I'm going to get a replacement - just to be safe.

 

Jim

 

 

[Keatah]

I learned on DOS 3.2 and 3.3. So therefore I may be biased when I say that's my favorite Apple II OS. However, ProDOS is more appropriate for later applications on the //e and IIGS. Either way. A solid understand of both OS'es limits and functionalities is a good thing for any Apple II user. These days I find myself going back and forth between them.

 

As far as the disk images from asimov goes. Well it's really simple. DOS images are DOS images. And ProDOS images are ProDOS images. You will need the appropriate OS loaded into memory in order to read the disk. DOS for DOS and ProDOS for ProDOS. DOS 3.3 will not read a ProDOS for example.

 

There are utilities available such as the excellent Copy II+ that will transfer files from one format to the other.

[Grimakis]

The disk images also come with the OS already on it. You won't necessarily be choosing an OS. If you put a DOS 3.3 disk in, it will load DOS 3.3 into memory. Same for ProDOS. Of course you can have a formatted disk without the OS on it, but that would be like if you wanted to store data to it, commercial software wouldn't come that way as far as I know.

[Bloodnose]

That FloppyEMU is an entirely elegant way to transfer disk images between the PC and the IIGS.

You will come across many copy protected games that simply will not run, but also many cracked versions available from asimov.

You will find many 5.25 inch images that will insist on running only from slot 6 -- they were essentially hard-coded in the early days -- but I'm getting ahead of you.

There is a lot of material to be enjoyed thanks to asimov and http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/

 

Wishing you much fun!

[Keatah]

Yes. And feel free to ask any questions. None are too small or too big.

[Polymorph]

My question is - can the IIgs boot off of either drive - the 5.25 or the 3.5?

The drives daisy chain to each other - and then to the computer - I don't recall off hand if only one of the drives has a daisy chain port - or if they both did.

Does the order they appear in the daisy chain determine which drive is which?

I believe there was a sticker on the drives indicating one was a "1" and the other was "2"

 

To answer your question, yes you can boot from either the 5.25" or the 3.5" drives. Plug any 3.5" drives directly into the IIgs and then daisy chain the 5.25" drives onto the 3.5" drive(s). If you are unsure, see this document for setup details: http://www.classiccmp.org/cini/pdf/Apple/Setting%20Up%20Your%20Apple%20IIgs.pdf

 

If your IIgs is setup correctly, the IIgs will try and boot from the 5.25" drive first and if that fails (because no disk is present) then it will attempt to boot from the 3.5" drive.

 

As for which DOS version to use, unless you're nostalgic for the Apple's first floppy disk based OS, I would stick with ProDOS. Their are advantages/disavantages to both, but ProDOS has a more like a "modern" file system in that it has folders and a maximum volume size of 32Mb (as opposed to no folders and a max volume size of 400Kb for DOS 3.3). At the end of the day both are fine, but if you plan on using any sort of mass storage, ProDOS will serve you much better.

[The Usotsuki]

If in control panel the boot slot is set to the default of Scan, it will try slot 6 drive 1 (5.25") first, then slot 5 drive 1 (3.5") and only if both fail it will throw up the sliding apple of death.

 

The low-level format of DOS 3.3 and ProDOS is the same, but the filesystems are different. ADTpro can transfer either one to a 5.25" disk, because it does block copy and thus the filesystem doesn't matter.

[eightbit]

I've owned my first IIGS (ROM3 model like you) for a few months now and while I am no expert on it to any stretch of the imagination I have found it really easy to work with and really really well built. Congrats! I do have a CFFA3000 that I acquired out of pure luck and I have to say I am really glad I did. To say I really love this machine is an understatement. I would suggest that yes, remove the battery and replace it since it is easy to do on this model. And this is a great place to get started as well: http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/

[Calibus]

Ok,

I'm glad to hear that I should be able to use either drive to boot from.

If I take a disk image that was originally on a 5.25" disk - can I put it on a 3.5" disk via ATDPRO?

Or will it need to go back on a 5.25"?

 

Is there a breakdown of the differences of each disk image type?

 

Looking around ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/images/games/adventure/

 

I see:

 

.dsk/DSK

.nib

.2mg

.po

ATDTPro is supposed to handle them all (and more)

I'm assuming that one or more of these are probably for protected disks - and ATDTPro can write them OK - but if I wanted to copy the protected disk from one drive to another I'd need Copy II+?

Back in the day on the MSDOS side, I used to use a hardware card (Copy II PC Option Board) to backup copy protected disks.

Judging by what I read in the Copy II+ manual, no such hardware was required on the Apple II?

Besides the aforementioned CFFA3000 - what is considered a "must have" card? My empty slots are just asking to have something plugged in.

I did order a DarkSound sound card along with the Floppy Emu - and I see they have a 4meg and 8meg expansion card.

Are the ram expansion cards usable outside of GS/OS?

My interests at this time are purely recreational (Games!) but I will eventually want to try dabbling in assembler.

[Grimakis]

Besides the aforementioned CFFA3000 - what is considered a "must have" card? My empty slots are just asking to have something plugged in.

 

Well on the original Apple II series(save for the //c), you needed a card for everything.

 

Floppy Drive, need a controller card.

Printer, get a parallel or serial card.

Modem, get another serial card.

Mouse, get the mouse card.

 

So luckily for you, the GS has two serial ports.

 

There are some other cards that can be useful though.

 

SCSI card allows you to connect a SCSI drive, like a Hard Disk, or a Zip Disk. If you get a CFFA3000 this may be kind of redundant though, since it emulates a ProDos formatted HDD anyway.

Z80 Card - Allows you to run CP/M. Today that's more of a curiosity than anything else.

Memory Expansion Card - Allows you to add up to maybe 8MB of RAM to the system. On the earlier Apple //e, it's used by programs via bankswitching. Not sure how the GS uses extra memory.

Mockingboard - Enhanced sound for some original Apple II software.

 

Unfortunately for you, the GS has a lot of hardware already built in

[Arnuphis]

Welcome aboard Calibus! I'm also taking the same voyage as you. Getting a IIgs and never used the Apple II range back in the day. No one in my area had one and schools/colleges were the province of the BBC Micro/Master. I just got hold of a IIe and got that floppy Emu device and I'm pretty happy with it for quick loading of floppy drive images so hoping you have the same experience!