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TIPI - TI-99/4A to Raspberry PI interface development


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#126 Sinphaltimus ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:35 PM

Sweet - I mean, if this works on Pi Zero - I'll just get one of those for a dedicated TiPi integration instead of multi purposing my Pi3. This is getting very exciting. I wonder if if the any of the Pi models can be powered off the console.  Without causing any issues. Hrm......



#127 ElectricLab OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:42 PM

The side port isn't meant to source enough current to power peripherals, although the speech synthesizer does but (I think) is the only peripheral that TI made that doesn't require its own power source.

Supposing you could power a Pi from the side port, you'd not then be able to plug any USB devices into it because it couldn't provide enough current. We want to do is support right away are USB memory sticks and of course, mice! Other devices will surely follow once people start hacking on this thing. 

 

Running the Pi off of TIPI's power source sounds reasonable though. I'm personally not a fan of using microUSB to power things like the Pi does and prefer coaxial power plugs. One of reasons for this is that some microUSB cables and adapters can't supply even enough current to run the Pi. 



#128 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:24 PM

A PI Zero is reported to use 120ma if you have wifi, at Idle.

The form factor is a bit different. So I'd want to design the board differently for a PI Zero. Or some sort of 'adapter'

Powering the PI Zero off of the TIPI source would require more headers... I currently have the headers to the PI as far away from the power headers as possible, so that the I2C ports are easy to access.

Also, be aware, that I never intended for a 32k + <anything> to draw from the console. That TI/Ext jumper control power on the 32k board. As I recall, if the jumper is set to TI, the +5v sideport pin from the 32k board does not get juice. So attaching a TIPI requires operating the 32k board with the power jump set to 'ext'.

-M@



#129 Sinphaltimus ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:51 AM

My apologies if I missed it someplace already but I was curious about the virtual disk aspect of TiPi - Is it done like Classic99 does FIAD (basically infinite size disk limited by size of remote hdd) or are there going to be fixed DSK sizes?


Edited by Sinphaltimus, Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:51 AM.


#130 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:44 AM

FIAD in TIFILES format to start.

I hate working with disk images...

I run samba server on the RPi, and share the root TIPI files folder. And manage from there with TI99Dir.

A goal for the web admin ui, is general file management, and ability to upload .dsk images, TIFILES, or V9T9 files and the system will convert them to TIFILES, or a folder of TIFILES for you.

-M@

#131 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:53 AM

FIAD in TIFILES format to start.

I hate working with disk images...

I run samba server on the RPi, and share the root TIPI files folder. And manage from there with TI99Dir.

A goal for the web admin ui, is general file management, and ability to upload .dsk images, TIFILES, or V9T9 files and the system will convert them to TIFILES, or a folder of TIFILES for you.

-M@

 

FIAD!  Oh Yessssssss!

Even Kirk and Bones agree with that decision!

bb4r_f-maxage-0.gif



#132 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:30 AM

FIAD!  Oh Yessssssss!
Even Kirk and Bones agree with that decision!
bb4r_f-maxage-0.gif


I sent that image to my team in Argentina... Even out of context... It's just a good image... I can't imagine a Star Wars equivalent... Maybe a Lando and Han moment?

Anyway! Happy Friday. The goal for this evening is to get TIPI working on ElectricLab's machine. I've made two work.

I also tweaked a few things yesterday so the throughput is just over 8k/sec. It breaks if I have the RPi drive 20% faster. I'm using the 10ns CPLDs. I want to tune the RPi to be as slow as it can be while getting a byte into the CPLD after the TI asks for it, but before the TI checks for it. :)
I've got a cheapo logic analyzer on the way. I'd like to observe my shift register protocol to determine this. but I'm sure if I can't do that, I can just adjust my signal peak width out until I see a reported change in performance. Slower is more robust, so as slow as still gives me 8k/sec and I'll be happy.

8k/sec is my benchmark because that is what ElectricLab had in his prototype. I added tons of overhead to the signaling protocol to reduce the RPi GPIO pin usage, and in my FestWest demo, before that, I had retry code slowing things down too to only about 3k/sec. For 8 GPIO operations on his prototype, I am doing 28 GPIOs, but in C. So 3.5x the work in the same time. As a software engineer, that makes me happy.

-M@

#133 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:30 PM

I am

 

FIAD in TIFILES format to start.

I hate working with disk images...

I am glad you are implementing FIAD (and in TIFILES format) but would certainly appreciate the option to use disk images if and when you get to that stage. They aren't all bad, you know.  If you don't implement disk images, then may I suggest a general management UI option to move files into an image?  Better yet, maybe TIPI can be emulated in the emulators allowing the real and virtual hardware to use the same TIPI folders.  ;)

 

Looks like you are making some great progress!



#134 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:55 PM

I hate working with disk images...

 

I admit I plainly fail to understand the problem, but well ...



#135 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:38 PM

 

I admit I plainly fail to understand the problem, but well ...

Disk Images are harder to work with unless you use SPECIFIC TOOLS and are much more complicated to use overall than  FIAD,  personally I only use Classic99 and TI99Dir in Windows 7 or 10.

 

Main reason I do not use Disk Image is catalog reasons. I can use Windows to look at a FIAD file and see content, I have us use SPECIFIC TI Disk programs to see within a Disk Image.

 

You have to admit that the less programs needed to do something the less complicated that project becomes.



#136 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:55 AM

For that reason I created TIImageTool, which delivers everything I could possibly need to work with disk images: image creation, file management, viewing text/picture/BASIC files, disassembling, pasting text into image etc.

 

We don't need to discuss pros and cons of images again. I just wondered about the "hate" against images expressed by jedimatt42.


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#137 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:40 AM

Well without using any tools FAID does have one distinct advantage over Disk Image just drag and drop without any tools or app needed to do so.

 

I do not hate Disk Image myself, see them as more work then FAID just to do the same thing.



#138 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:43 AM



#139 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:48 AM

Ok wtf, atariage seems to eat all my long winded posts... 



#140 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:49 AM

This has been going on for a couple weeks... I'm getting ready to unsubscribe.  ( testing... maybe it just hates my -M@ ) 

 

--- Nope ---

 

Maybe it is how long I take to write stuff... 

 

-M@



#141 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:12 AM

First off, TIPI is open source, and license for you to do pretty close to whatever you want with it.

 

Previously, (in a post that atariage ate for breakfast) I explained that I have no use for disk images, except to convert them to dirs of FIAD.  And I don't like to implement software I don't want to use. So, by all means, if someone wants native DSK image support, contribute... And I'll be happy to help with the assembly in the DSR. It is all just passing through to python on the RPi. If there is something not passing through yet, I'm happy to fix that. 

 

I also detailed a strategy for emulation support... but I'm not going to repeat that here, since atariage just ate it. I'll write it up on the github wiki. 

 

But basically, the hardware is simple, the software is already software, and most of TIPI is python software... so emulation should just use the actual python. There is a facade that will make that easy, already in place. 

 

Things I'll try to repeat:

 

TIPI is aiming for a harddrive experience the way I remember reading about for MDOS and DSK1 support from the harddrive. I don't really care what it actually did. The experience I imagine remembering is what I want for myself. And I'm willing to share that.  So, fundamentally, it is trying to be a harddrive with some legacy software support. Not a replacement for floppies. I don't see or have the need, so I would not be good at providing a well tested floppy simulation result. 

 

But, TIPI is more than a harddrive. It is a framework for providing Linux services to the TI. It provides mouse support, TCP, HTTP, eventually HTTPS, and an extensible model for exposing contributed services, the mouse, and soon enough, the combatti multiplayer system will be in that family. 

 

TIPI is not about the past. For that, contribute, or buy a PEB or Nanopeb.  Want both? I'm sure we can get TIPI and PEBs and Nanopebs all working together.

 

( Ok, this was a long winded message... let's put it in my clipboard for safety, and see if atariage eats it again... )  ( Darn it didn't... So I don't have enough info for a bug report yet... ) 

 

-M@



#142 Lee Stewart OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:30 AM

Ok wtf, atariage seems to eat all my long winded posts... 

 

I usually write long stuff in Notepad++ and copy/paste it, taking care of links,etc. after that.

 

The biggest problem I usually have is copying and pasting quotes for responses. They don't show up in the first switch to “More Reply Options”. I usually need to hit “Preview Post” for them to show up in the editor. I suppose I should report that, but the workaround is easier.

 

...lee



#143 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:31 AM

Also, if you want to take a directory full of FIADs and create a disk image, you guys have already provided the tools for that.   TIImageTool and xdm99 and TI99Dir, and... there is another for the mac... you can share you TIPI folder from the RPi as a CIFS/Samba ( windows share ) and use whatever tools from linux or windows that you want.

 

Xdm99 ( and all of xdt99 ) also runs quite well from the Raspberry Pi.  And I suspect the command line support for TiImageTool would work fine, if you want the UI, you'd have to attach an HDMI cable... but you might as well just use the network file sharing instead. 

 

So, there are already tools, TIPI doesn't need to add to that. 

 

-M@



#144 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:35 AM

I usually write long stuff in Notepad++ and copy/paste it, taking care of links,etc. after that.
 
The biggest problem I usually have is copying and pasting quotes for responses. They don't show up in the first switch to “More Reply Options”. I usually need to hit “Preview Post” for them to show up in the editor. I suppose I should report that, but the workaround is easier.
 
...lee


So, I just quoted you, in the wysiwyg editor and it ate my additional comments... But if I switch to the preferred markup editor, I think it will work...

-M@

#145 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:55 AM

Oh, back to TIPI :  We got ElectricLab's board working last night... And his Raspberry PI set up... Reproducing in a second environment is another milestone!
 
That was mega.
 
We need to make the Raspberry PI side easier to set up. Right now there are python package installations, system service scripts, paths that need editing... a tiny bit of a mess...
and documentation in multiple places.. Things to do. :)

-M@

#146 LASooner ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:01 PM

I can't imagine a Star Wars equivalent... Maybe a Lando and Han moment?
 

 

And you call yourself a Jedi...  :grin:

 

 

WfiRzsb.gif



#147 Sinphaltimus ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:07 PM

 

And you call yourself a Jedi...  :grin:

 

 

WfiRzsb.gif



LMAO!



#148 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:16 PM

And you call yourself a Jedi...  :grin:
 
 
WfiRzsb.gif


Nice! That one isn't even contrived... :) Love it!

-M@

#149 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:24 PM

My comment about disk images was primarily meant to tie into your comments about FIAD (for now) and the file management / UI goal.  At this point, sector-based IO is the only way that the TIPI system could be integrated into the Geneve OS. That doesn't mean emulating all the IO functions, just a sector read/write, similar to what Fred's HDX server provides for disk images.  I didn't really make it too clear that I had that in mind.  Once I get a better feel for how the files are accessed and managed via TIFILES, I'll start thinking through how we could add native support to the OS and give you some feedback.  Maybe near the holidays.



#150 jedimatt42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:28 PM

Anyone have a Kicad component for the PEB edge card they're interested in sharing?

-M@




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