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Coleco strong-arming homebrew publishers and fan sites


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#101 Reaperman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 8:51 AM

Anybody have a colecovision box art or cart label template?

 

...no reason...


Edited by Reaperman, Sat May 20, 2017 8:52 AM.


#102 128Kgames OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 9:06 AM

I'm graduating today at 3:00 PM (BS in Security Systems) thinking about putting the ColecoVision logo on my cap...



#103 opcode ONLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 9:17 AM

I will propose something crazy, and then I will get some actual work done.

My idea is this (and of course it will depend on what happens in the near future, my conversation with Mark from RWB, legal analysis underway regarding the validity of the ColecoVision trademark and so):

 

We are basically working hard to make someones else brand stronger. We don't think about that because of "amateurish" or "homebrewer" nature of the hobby and of what we do. But now that we have seen the ugly face of Coleco management, we should consider alternatives.

 

My suggestion is that we create a new common name for the platform, and start creating under that. We have a new console coming, and I know Bryan is also working on new hardware. Both hardware should have all backward compatibility bases covered, so while maybe not the best possible solution (that would be we, the community, owning the CV trademark, and believe me, we have a good shot on that depending on legal investment we are willing to do), a new platform name should free us of a lot of future trouble in case everything else fails.

 

What is important right now in my opinion is that we stop empowering and investing on someone's else brand, especially when that someone else is hostile towards us. We have been making a very naive mistake by investing some much effort and money on something we don't own, just to have that individual harvest the benefits and piss on us.



#104 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 9:31 AM

Amazing to me that "Coleco Holdings LLC" is still continuing to lie to people TODAY on their official Facebook page:

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 10.52.38.png

 

I honestly cannot believe they would post, on their own branded Coleco Holdings LLC page the following sentences: "We recently reported two games" and "At coleco we embrace the home brew scene"

I'm sorry, what?? Here, I will show you all something. Let me post the emails I received from Facebook so you all can see that they reported more than "two games" and their claim on their Facebook page is a flat-out LIE!

 

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 10.57.19.png

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 10.57.10.png

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 10.56.53.png

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 10.56.44.png

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 10.56.38.png

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 10.56.29.png

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Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 10.56.13.png

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 10.56.03.png

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 10.55.54.png

 

 

And now the proof that this came directly from "Coleco Holdings LLC"

coleco proof.png
 

Let's take a detailed look at those claims and see exactly how big of a LIE "We recently reported two games" and "At coleco we embrace the home brew scene" actually is...

 

First of all, the homebrewers connected to the games made include:

  • CollectorVision
  • Opcode Games
  • Team Pixelboy
  • AtariAge
  • Daniel Bienvenu

That covers the majority of the ColecoVision homebrew publishers, doesn't it?

Let's also look at the fan pages attacked in these reports:

  • ColecoVision Fan
  • ColecoVision Lunatics
  • Old Made New

Those fan pages make up about 30,000 fans collectively. Interestingly enough, Coleco Holdings LLC's official page only has about 6,000 fans.

 

Coleco Holdings LLC, you also reported an image that included the following sentence:

 

"Homebrewers are still making awesome new games for classic systems! SHARE this it help support them!"

 

You reported that, Coleco Holdings LLC.  Yes, you did! You asked Facebook to remove that and take that down.  Why?  I'll tell you why, because YOU DO NOT EMBRACE THE HOMEBREW SCENE, that's why.  And the fact that you are now trying to use "pornograhy" or "lewd content" as a way to strengthen your claim and deflect the other claims is completely laughable. No one is buying it because it's also a lie.

 

Let's also take a look at the "two games" that were reported, because looking at the original images in the original post, that appears to be a lot more than "two games" to me. In fact, it appears you reported 45 games all made by the homebrew and fan community, or 63 games if you count the re-production box art that created for some released or prototype games.

 

So again, Coleco Holdings LLC, please tell us more of this story of how "At coleco we embrace the home brew scene" when it appears to me that you're trying to tear it apart.  I'm sorry, you guys are a shady company and cannot be trusted.  Even after everything that has been written in this thread, you still continue to lie.

 

Please do not support Coleco Holdings LLC.  If you currently LIKE their Facebook, go UNLIKE it, but before you do that, please be sure to post on their page how you will not support them.  

 

THANK YOU!



#105 128Kgames OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 9:36 AM

I will propose something crazy, and then I will get some actual work done.
My idea is this (and of course it will depend on what happens in the near future, my conversation with Mark from RWB, legal analysis underway regarding the validity of the ColecoVision trademark and so):
 
We are basically working hard to make someones else brand stronger. We don't think about that because of "amateurish" or "homebrewer" nature of the hobby and of what we do. But now that we have seen the ugly face of Coleco management, we should consider alternatives.
 
My suggestion is that we create a new common name for the platform, and start creating under that. We have a new console coming, and I know Bryan is also working on new hardware. Both hardware should have all backward compatibility bases covered, so while maybe not the best possible solution (that would be we, the community, owning the CV trademark, and believe me, we have a good shot on that depending on legal investment we are willing to do), a new platform name should free us of a lot of future trouble in case everything else fails.
 
What is important right now in my opinion is that we stop empowering and investing on someone's else brand, especially when that someone else is hostile towards us. We have been making a very naive mistake by investing some much effort and money on something we don't own, just to have that individual harvest the benefits and piss on us.

 
If you do that (call it something else) then in effect they've won.  I do not beleive there is any legal standing against labelling boxes, carts, manuals etc. "made for ColecoVision, designed for ColecoVision etc.".  In fact, there CANNOT be, unless the laws have changed in the past 30 years: not every game (in fact I would say almost all 3rd party games) was "certified" or "authorized" or whatever the hell companies call it today.  In fact I'll use what might be the most extreme case for this arguement:
 
CustersRevenge_AtariBox.jpg
 
If mystique could do it, you and everyone else making games for the ColecoVision sure as hell can do it.  
 
Don't abandon the ColecoVision moniker until you know more, after your meeting with RWB etc. 

#106 dj_convoy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 9:37 AM

 

 

We are basically working hard to make someones else brand stronger. We don't think about that because of "amateurish" or "homebrewer" nature of the hobby and of what we do. But now that we have seen the ugly face of Coleco management, we should consider alternatives.

 

My suggestion is that we create a new common name for the platform, and start creating under that.  

 

 

Agreed; something to indicate "ColecoVision" without stating it would probably be advisable... too bad CollectorVision is already a thing. I wonder if "Vision" on it's own (in something approximating the obvious typeface) is enough to be trademarkable? CoVision?



#107 Jess Ragan OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 9:44 AM

Here's where I'd say something cute like "how about Coolio-Vision?," but no, seriously... what about the Personal Arcade? I believe the clone by Telegames was called that. Seems like it describes the system and its arcade heavy library pretty well too.

#108 PikoInteractive OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:03 AM

Attached is a quick logo I made, if you have photoshop you can change the font and the color style will stay. You can change the color style in the Blending Options of the layer. Colors can be changed on Gradient Overlay I just picked whatever colors.. (Right click the text layer, click Blending Options, then click Gradient Layer. The black stroke you can change in stroke option under Blending Options as well).

 

We use "Play On" Super Nintendo or Nintendo for example in our packaging. Super Nintendo has the font Agency FB which is the same as the Super Nintendo logo. but we use it without being italicized.

 

I changed to "Play On" from the "For Play On" that the previous owner of Wisdom Tree suggested. I just didn't like the way it sounded.

 

Then just add your notice "This game is not produced, endorsed, or published (or whatever) by Coleco. Coleco and Colecovision are trademarks of Coleco Holdings LLC"


That should cover everyone's a$$ In my opinion.

Attached Files

  • Attached File  logo.rar   663.29KB   107 downloads

Edited by PikoInteractive, Sat May 20, 2017 10:08 AM.


#109 cardo1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:03 AM

Well. It appears as though all of our comments on the CV fan page were deleted and we can no longer comment.

#110 TheClassyGamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:06 AM

 (that would be we, the community, owning the CV trademark, and believe me, we have a good shot on that depending on legal investment we are willing to do)

 

Well, if you want to start a fundraiser, I'll chip up a little something to help.



#111 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:10 AM

Well. It appears as though all of our comments on the CV fan page were deleted and we can no longer comment.

 

You are surprised that you were blocked from the page that you tried to take down?



#112 PikoInteractive OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:10 AM

 

Well, if you want to start a fundraiser, I'll chip up a little something to help.

Contact this guy:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/siwaters/

 



#113 opcode ONLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:17 AM

Well. It appears as though all of our comments on the CV fan page were deleted and we can no longer comment.

 

So you reported a game because it was using your logo with a Nintendo property?

We can show that you were using a Nintendo property in many of your post in association with the Coleco logo until yesterday. How about that?



#114 opcode ONLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:20 AM

Here's where I'd say something cute like "how about Coolio-Vision?," but no, seriously... what about the Personal Arcade? I believe the clone by Telegames was called that. Seems like it describes the system and its arcade heavy library pretty well too.

 

Not a bad idea. Come up with a name, we will register it and make it available for the community. No matter the outcome of the current state of things with Coleco, we should move to a platform with a new name. Enough of helping those guys...

 

And since they are now accusing me again publicly, and I said I would refrain from commenting on them until we had the chance to talk, I will comment something here. Before I am accused again of taking advantage of a deal for using the ColecoVision name in association with the SGM, I must add that I did help RWB in many ways during the years, with consulting and spreading the good word, never got a dime. I worked for months on their console project, didn't see a dime either. Should I say we are even?



#115 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:23 AM

Here is what Chris posted to our page:

chris lies.png

 

And he also posted this to the official Coleco page:

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 12.20.46.png

So which is it, Chris?  Is it two games or, if I do my math correctly, 8 games that you reported?  Which lie would you like us to believe more?  The lie where you say you reported two games or the lie where you say you reported eight games?  

 

Or is the bigger question here: "Instead of going after the creators of the 6-game series or the 'man attempting to release two unlicensed game', why did you come after us?"

 

ColecoVision Fan did not develop those games.  ColecoVision Fan is not responsible for those games. Why are you coming after our page?



#116 ColecoFan1981 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:36 AM

I really hope these issues can be resolved! All the best to you ColecoVision fanatics and homebrewers!

 

~Ben



#117 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:41 AM

I really hope these issues can be resolved! All the best to you ColecoVision fanatics and homebrewers!

 

Well, we still have not received the trademark infringement retraction from Coleco, which is all we asked for.  So I guess their refusal to retract those claims speaks volumes for how much they embrace and support the community. 



#118 5-11under OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:46 AM

Dear To Coleco/cardo1,

 

It would be good to know what you deem to be acceptable or not acceptable with regard to usage of the word and typeface and logo and BIOS and software and anything else related to "Coleco" and "ColecoVision", and the rules you expect to be followed when using these. Backing this information up with legal documents would be helpful, if not essential. Then we can each decide if your rules are valid, legal, and therefore worth following. Lay it out clearly for the benefit of all of us (and you). Until then, it's business as usual, as far as I'm concerned.

 

/for everyone, as an aside, with Facebook, there's not too much anyone can do, unless your last name starts with "Zucker" - it's a walled garden where you don't have much control.



#119 bmcnett OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:56 AM

Heh, I didn't know it had sold this well.

 s.png



#120 opcode ONLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:57 AM

Guys, seriously. At this point what hope you see in continuing supporting Coleco? I mean, I am not talking about boycotting or anything, I am talking about we have this wonderful homebrewer community that has been keeping the CV alive for many many years, and now the current owners piss on us. So even if they retract and say, fine, we are sorry, come here, give me a hug, we good, are we going to believe them? Because I am not. I had enough. I love to spend my time making games, not fighting people with no knowledge of their audience. 

 

So we can spend the rest of the month or year here complaining about this shit, or we can do something. I want to keep doing my games, and I don't want assholes trying to control my content because they believe they have any rights over a dead platform.

 

My suggestion again is that we move to a new platform, with a new name. We have Prometheus coming, we have Bryan's board coming, we can come up with a new name for the new platform. It doesn't change the fact that we will be able to keep playing all our beloved ColecoVision games on both the old and new consoles. It is just a new name to get us peace of mind. And we will be working for that new name, not helping someone's else brand to get stronger just to get dismissed later.



#121 KaeruYojimbo ONLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 10:58 AM

Heh, I didn't know it had sold this well.
 s.png

Helps that it cost considerably less and many people already have PS4s and Xbones.
 
Whatever new hardware you end up making will need to have a new name, but the original Colecovision should be called the Colecovision. It's not like River West gets 10 bucks every time someone says "Colecovision."
 
Not specifically related to this thread, developers, I don't know how or if anyone bothers getting rights for homebrew titles, but when you make a game using someone else's IP and the owner of that IP comes after you to stop, they aren't the bad guy.
 
Coleco-In-Name-Only has overstepped and is going after the wrong people for the wrong reasons. They need to be stopped. It needs to be done in the right way. This thread is starting to take a turn towards hyperbole and name-calling.

Edit: Yes, I know Coleco doesn't own the rights to any of the game properties on question. It was a general statement.

Edited by KaeruYojimbo, Sat May 20, 2017 11:04 AM.


#122 StopDrop&Retro OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 11:01 AM

I haven't been keeping up with all the interactions here, but what methods are they using to "strong arm"? Is it just the Facebook copyright claim strikes? Have they sent a formal cease and desist letter?

 

I can see how you can't really do much against them tattling to Facebook but if they send you a C&D letter, it's just that, a letter. It's a notice, it didn't come from a judge or anyone with any kind of authority to enforce it. You can respond in kind with your own letter response asking them to prove their ownership of those trademarks. 



#123 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 11:08 AM

Whatever new hardware you end up making will need to have a new name, but the original Colecovision should be called the Colecovision. It's not like River West gets 10 bucks every time someone says "Colecovision."

 

Totally agree. I would think that at least saying "Plays ColecoVision games" should fall under fair use, no? I mean, how does Hyperkin get away with it?

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 13.03.31.png

 

 

Coleco-In-Name-Only has overstepped and is going after the wrong people for the wrong reasons.

 

It would appear that everyone else seems to understand this, but Coleco.  We are still waiting for our claim retraction notices.  Want to take bets on if they will ever appear?  This all could have been avoided.

 

This thread is starting to take a turn towards hyperbole and name-calling.

 

Some of us have really tried to keep things professional, but that's challenging given the circumstances and the content posted by official parties.  To be fair, this thread has devolved much less than others I've witnessed.  



#124 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 11:50 AM

I am just going to leave this here.  This was posted on the official Coleco page...

 

Screen Shot 2017-05-20 at 13.48.18.png

 

Here are the comments on ColecoVision Fan that were removed due to blocking this user. These were the *ONLY* comments made by Coleco on our page.  

more chris lies.png



#125 RodLightning OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 20, 2017 12:06 PM

Viewing this latest debacle from an outsider's perspective. It looks/sounds like 'cardo1'and company must be either persons with money to burn, buying the Coleco brand name and then attacking the few individuals still producing content for said brand purely for sport/thrills...brilliant, or complete fools.
I'm not sure which is worse. Either way, I think the fans and homebrew authors will be around long after these jokers move on to their next scheme.

It's just a shame the Coleco brand name gets drug through the mud once again. Thanks a heap Cardo, and good luck extracting a profit from your coveted IP.

Edited by RodLightning, Sat May 20, 2017 12:09 PM.





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