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Atari collector demographics


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#76 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:05 PM

We're going to have to agree to disagree, because..

 

Bullcrap. I get the same benefit experiencing it as an adult as you did experiencing it in your youth AND as an adult.

 

Playing it for the first times in 2012 is the same as me having played it in winter'77. It's the first time. So you get the benefit. You will note in mid-2020's, remembering this post, So THAT'S what nostalgia is..! But not before.

 

 

Memory reference or lack thereof doesn't magically change what happens when you plug in a cart and toggle the power switch.
 
That's right, the physical experience is same. The game experience should be the same. With the same games, with the same display, same console. In 15 years from now the emotions associated with it will have matured, simmered on the pot, and be moderately different. Be of more contrast. Don't worry. You'll get there. Nostalgia won't pass you by.
 
When you plug in a cart, turn it on, and get going, That isn't nostalgia. That is an individual experience. Self-contained, like anything else. Distinct. Separate. Time is required to bring it all together.
 
It may make you think of the 70's or 80's but the nostalgia is for those times, and not for Atari.
 

 

And noone would collect for anything they didn't own as a child, much less buy new and exciting homebrew for that matter, if this "nostalgia" if applied in the strictest dictionary sense, were the sole motivation for collecting.

 

Many people collect for many things they didn't have as a kid. New collections are born every day for every thing imaginable.
 

 

So in the whole definition of nostalgia is a return to childhood, period, which brings my next point:

 

That is the antithesis of your dictionary nostalgia definition. Name one individual, who as a kid, had a whole bookshelf or even an entire wall dedicated to Atari 2600, or NES carts? Who, as a kid, had 12 systems hooked up to the poor little TV all at once? Nobody. I'm sure even rich millionaire kids didn't do this. More than likely you had a few crappy game carts scattered across the floor with dirty socks and underwear, and a crusty slice of half-eaten pizza laying on top of the NES (or Atari), while your best friend was lying on the bed trying to look up tips on where to find the warp whistle in the latest issue of Nintendo Power.

 

Anyone who looks upon their game collection and thinks "herein between these walls lies my entire childhood" is delusional. And a wall of perfectly curated CIB games is not a realistic childhood dream either, it's a man-boy collectard fantasy. A childhood dream opening your bedroom closet and finding a Chuck-E-Cheese parlor or Aladdin's Castle tucked away in there, with all you can eat pizza and all the games on freeplay. After you've had your fill of games and pizza, you hop on top of that beast from Never Ending Story and fly around through the sky like Peter Pan, high on pixie stix dust.

 

That's about the speed of things.. Except I did have the arcade in my closet and a computer store in my bedroom. I won't get into it because I do not have the photos scanned to back it up. I prefer to avoid nagging and poking for the moment.

 

We're looking into getting a conservationist to recover them from a waterlogged box.

 


Edited by Keatah, Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:05 PM.


#77 atarilovesyou OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:09 PM

Never? You never had a memory that takes you back and kind of gives you a feeling of missing it? Like maybe it is Christmas and you remember ones where a grandparent was still alive. Then you feel kind of happy and sad at the same time. You feel happy because they are good memories but sad too because you wish they were still here this Christmas? Or maybe you hear an old song that you like or maybe even one that you don't but it still triggers memories that you miss because they were good? Or you look at a pet cat or dog that are now old and lazy but miss when they were youthful, cute, and playful? Etc.? It just seems like there would have to be some memories that were good enough to make you feel happy when thinking about them but also have a kind of homesick like sad feeling because they are lost to the past.

 

For me, it's one thing to let memories take me back to a time...but a totally thing altogether to actually WANT something like that to happen.  That's why I think the psychological aspect of nostalgia is viewed as, by professionals anyway, as detrimental: you simply CAN'T go back.  Hell, even when you 'can' go back to your hometown, visit an old friend, etc, years after the fact?  It's not the same.  You're not the same.  It just ain't the same.  Sure, it's a real trip to do that kinda stuff...a few years ago I was lucky enough to go back to my old high school and explore around...it's kinda deserted these days.  But in the empty rooms, the old gym, the stairwell that I used to make out with CZ :D ...that's the stuff that really blew my mind.  That this place may be old and empty now, but in my teen years, it was FULL of action...it was my world, lol.  Every room told a different story.  I really wished I brought a camera that day, but...no matter, it was a surreal experience.

 

I would never want to actually RETURN to that time period, however, lol.  I had my fun :)  and I moved on.  I enjoy the memories, though.  And that's nostalgia, to me...enjoying the same things today that I enjoyed then, albeit in a different light.  That's a healthy thing, to me...there's no negativity in my definition or experience of nostalgia, 'my' definition of nostalgia (as incorrect as it may be, but until someone comes up with a better word, I'm using this one).  And I never feel like I want to go back, because at least as far as music, movies, video games, books...I have ALL that stuff now, it's right in my basement :D  Memories of loved ones passed, well that's something entirely different in my opinion.  Pretty hard to compare human beings to inanimate objects from our youth.  Of course I miss those who have passed away, but haven't gotten to the point of nostalgia.  Who knows, I'll let you know in a few decades how that changes. I'm sure it may, but for now we're talking video games.

 

Another thing I'll speak to: Collectard.  I don't like the term.  If you want to get a rise out of me, lol, call me a collectard.  I've read the gripes here that people have with some of us who collect physical media, and to be honest, it largely goes unheeded.  I collect stuff.  I collect a lot of stuff.  All of it has its place, and a focus.  Some of it is worth something (in monetary terms), some of it is only valuable to me.  Collecting is something that humans have been doing since the dawn of time, and I refuse to think that what I do is somehow dumb just because a few people on the internet deem it so.  Collecting vs hoarding vs buying up all stocks in order to make money off limited supply are NOT the same thing.  I would encourage those of you who think negatively of collecting video games, stamps, bottlecaps, whatever, to go easy on the negativity.  Life's too short to throw insults at others in such a niche community.  As long as someone's not hoarding, or causing harm to themselves, collecting video games has gotta be one of the coolest hobbies around.  It just seems many here have had negative experiences with some aspect of it, and have now become preachers...preaching to the 'collectards' and their non-sensical ways.  That's great for you if you got tired of the storage issues, or the money issues, or whatever other issues lead you away from collecting.  I'm honestly happy for those of you who shifted their focus away from the physical media and still get the same kick out of the hobby.  But please, don't judge or insult me for how I go about the hobby on my own terms.  And don't be surprised if you hear me call you out on your use of 'collectard'. 

 

Speaking of the 'wall of MISB games'...what's the big deal?  Name me one kid who didn't DROOL at the thought of such a thing back in the 80s!  And now it can be done, and has been done.  I know a few of them myself.  At least one has moved on, sold his stuff and hasn't looked back.  He's no longer in the retro aspect of the hobby, he just felt like it was a drag.  I benefited a lot from picking up many titles for my own collection.  And having his collection in my collection just makes even MORE memories and stories...that's what I love most about retrogaming: the story telling aspect, the fact I can pick up any game I own and tell you (or anybody who's interested) just why this game is special to me and is in my collection.  Yes, a few of those games will only have a short story, including "I only own this game because it's valuable on the secondary market, and I have no desire to sell it"...but not many.  Having a collection that is too large, too cluttered and unfocused can be a drag for sure.  I've never let mine get to that point, other than when I had a literal garbage bag full of VCS games back in the early 90s (that went missing before the end of the decade, grrrr).  I would have killed for a nice MISB collection just to remind me of what Sears used to look like back in the early 80s during Christmas.  I harbour no ill will towards those collectors, and they are certainly not 'collectards'.  Even the assholes out there who do it strictly for the money (what little money it does in fact bring)...those are collectors, and just like there's many types of people, there's asshole collectors and there's awesome collectors.  Why on earth would I start to focus my anger or disdain on the hobby rather than the actions of the person(s)?  No hobby should be negative, ultimately...the whole point is to have fun.  And I do, man, I do.  Not everybody gets it, understands it, but hey, that's ok too.  It only has to make sense to ME, and it does.  I don't expect my family or kids to get it either, but it sure is a lot more fun to have others around to enjoy the hobby in all its aspects.  And I have yet to meet someone who doesn't like Medieval Madness on my VCS :D

 

Anyways, that's my thoughts on that.


Edited by atarilovesyou, Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:13 PM.


#78 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:05 AM

I'm glad I got away from collecting. It consumed too much time. And with me tending to be a completist it would be an endless source of frustration. And most collections in the public consciousness seem to ALWAYS have a few unobtainables. It's like they are put there for evil and just to piss people off. Lesser-known, less popular things, don't have that problem too much. So yeh, I don't do that anymore.



#79 Kosmic Stardust ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:12 AM

That would be nostalgia for the other older time. Not nostalgia for Atari.
 
Also, if you knew of something decades ago, and really really wanted it, you will have imagined doing some of it in your head at the time. And then it would be nostalgia for those imaginations. Not the actual thing. Many folks see that as a gray area, yet nostalgia remains specific in that you have to have experienced it, waited a long time, then want to experience it again.

Like the NES I literally begged my parents for every year as a kid, even sat in Santa's lap despite being too big for my britches (to try and trick my parents into buying one), then as an early teen they finally bought me one, stowed it in the attick for Christmas, and forgot about? So my childhood fantasy of opening that shiny new NES Action Set was fulfilled, only when I was 21 years old. I came home one day from college, and there's a CIB NES and a brand new CRT TV sitting on my bed. I nearly jerzed n mah pantz. Except that MEME didn't exist in 2002... :o

Seriously mom, who buys an NES for their son then forgets about it for ten years? :P And it was a brilliant move. I would not be on this forum right now were it not for that NES she stowed away and forgot. Also I was headed down a dark path in my early 20s. Perhaps NES helped me channel that energy into a new direction... :D

#80 Kosmic Stardust ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:18 AM

That's about the speed of things.. Except I did have the arcade in my closet and a computer store in my bedroom. I won't get into it because I do not have the photos scanned to back it up. I prefer to avoid nagging and poking for the moment.
 
We're looking into getting a conservationist to recover them from a waterlogged box.

Photos got wet? Stuck together you say? Simple solution: run water over them. They'll unstick. No damage. Now hop to it. No excuses. Give us those scanned photos. And no, a Polaroid of a 200-in-1 electronics project kit from Radio Shack stuffed in your closet, with half the components missing, does not count as a computer store. I had like ten of those stuffed in my closet! :rolling:

#81 Schizophretard OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:07 AM

 

For me, it's one thing to let memories take me back to a time...but a totally thing altogether to actually WANT something like that to happen.  That's why I think the psychological aspect of nostalgia is viewed as, by professionals anyway, as detrimental: you simply CAN'T go back.  Hell, even when you 'can' go back to your hometown, visit an old friend, etc, years after the fact?  It's not the same.  You're not the same.  It just ain't the same.  Sure, it's a real trip to do that kinda stuff...a few years ago I was lucky enough to go back to my old high school and explore around...it's kinda deserted these days.  But in the empty rooms, the old gym, the stairwell that I used to make out with CZ icon_mrgreen.gif ...that's the stuff that really blew my mind.  That this place may be old and empty now, but in my teen years, it was FULL of action...it was my world, lol.  Every room told a different story.  I really wished I brought a camera that day, but...no matter, it was a surreal experience.

 

I would never want to actually RETURN to that time period, however, lol.  I had my fun icon_smile.gif  and I moved on.  I enjoy the memories, though.  And that's nostalgia, to me...enjoying the same things today that I enjoyed then, albeit in a different light.  That's a healthy thing, to me...there's no negativity in my definition or experience of nostalgia, 'my' definition of nostalgia (as incorrect as it may be, but until someone comes up with a better word, I'm using this one).  And I never feel like I want to go back, because at least as far as music, movies, video games, books...I have ALL that stuff now, it's right in my basement icon_mrgreen.gif  Memories of loved ones passed, well that's something entirely different in my opinion.  Pretty hard to compare human beings to inanimate objects from our youth.  Of course I miss those who have passed away, but haven't gotten to the point of nostalgia.  Who knows, I'll let you know in a few decades how that changes. I'm sure it may, but for now we're talking video games.

 

I don't think your definition is outside of the actual definition to need a new word because if there was a distinction where literally wanting to go back is being within the definition and enjoying the memories and the same things in a different light in the present is outside of the definition then those who you would count as being within the definition would display different behavior. They wouldn't be doing the same things as you by going back the only way that is possible by just bringing the past to the present and enjoying it in a different light but instead would be doing things like obsessing over making time machines because displaying the same behavior as you wouldn't be good enough.

 

I also don't think there is a distinction where the actual definition contains a negative meaning and your own contains a positive meaning because the actual definition contains both negative and positive meanings. It has both a homesick feeling and being home feeling mixed together. You enjoying the memories and the same things in a different light is the being home feeling. You coming home to discover that someone broke into your house to steal it all would be the homesick feeling because now instead of being able to enjoy these things you would be yearning for these objects from the past. In other words, your home would feel less like home and the nostalgic feeling would go from a positive to a negative.

 

I don't really take issue with the positive and negative meanings of it. It is more of the negative connotations people apply to it kind of like how you feel about the word collectard. I find it annoying when people claim that nostalgia is somehow impairing my judgement. For an example, my preference for CRT's. If I claim that I think that retro games often look better on CRT's then the rebuttal is that nostalgia is clouding my judgement because it can't possibly really look better to me. If only I was cured of nostalgia the "optical illusion" of flat panels looking like MS Paint would disappear and I would be able to see that retro games "objectively" look better on flat panels. But if I turn around the same argument on them that them enjoying retro games even on flat panels is from nostalgia because if they were cured they would be able to see that modern games are "objectively" more fun then they wouldn't accept that explanation because they "know" that only I have the "disease" and they don't. It is also annoying when they claim that my "disease" has to be consistent by only using a CRT that existed when the retro console in question was on the market or even to the extreme as the exact model I once owned. But again, if I turn it around where they have to be consistent by only hooking up consoles that were or still are on the market at the time they bought their flat panel they apply the same double standard again.

 

They can't seem to grasp the concepts that my preferences aren't being clouded by nostalgia affecting my judgement and that what I mean by the authentic experience isn't an exact replica of my past but replicating what I would have considered the ideal experience in the past even if it wasn't an option yet. For an example, playing an a/v modded Atari on a good CRT made in the late 90's while using a Harmony Cart still feels like an authentic experience because back in the 80's those were the kind of things I was feeling were lacking from the experience and hoping would later be added to the experience. Why would I want to replicate what I saw as lacking along with what I saw that wasn't? I think that would be more of an example of nostalgia clouding my judgement because replicating what I felt was lacking and somehow being able to turn that into a positive because the authentic experience requires me to still be in a state of hoping for these kind of improvements while knowing that these improvements already exists seems a little bat shit to me. If part of the authentic experience for me back then was aiming for the ideal then it is just as authentic for me to aim for the same today. For an example, having the exact same Atari games I had then would be authentic but so would having all the games I didn't back then because back then I wanted them. Having the games I had and the ones I didn't is authentic because it is the ideal experience I was wanting back then but was lacking at the time. I don't want to replicate a museum exhibit of my past. I want to replicate the ideal of my past. To me that is the authentic experience of enjoying retro gaming. Enjoy the ideal instead of a re-run. 

 

Yes, people and inanimate objects are different things but you can still feel nostalgic feelings for both and they could be tied together. For an example, I don't just love my parents for who they are today but who they were in the past. I also don't just love the nature of our relationship now but also how it was in the past. I kind of miss it and I think they kind of do too. I can feel a little homesick and they could feel a little empty nest. So, sometimes I put myself in a position where they are the parents and I am the kid to fulfill both our needs. Like maybe I'm having car trouble, could ask others which shops they would recommend, and get a ride from someone. But instead I ask my dad which shop he recommends and ask my mom for a ride. Then later when they are dead I would still have the other options in a similar situation and wouldn't really need them to get my car running but I emotionally would. And not just because I'm missing two adults on an equal level with me being an adult but also because these two adults are the only ones I'm capable of putting myself in a position of being the kid again. In other words, I would feel like an adult that misses two adults and like an orphan child missing parents at the same time. I would miss daddy and dad. I would miss mommy and mom. I would miss everything about who they were from my birth until their deaths. When those days come I would feel very homesick. That would be the negative side of nostalgia. But hopefully there would be the positive side too like things that put a smile on my face from triggering good memories. For an example, right now my little brother has a little boy and girl. The boy looks identical to Papaw, dad, and I. When people say he looks just like me instead of my brother it annoys the shit out of him but I love it. icon_mrgreen.gif And the little girl makes me think,"I have a Chinese niece!" So, maybe as they grow up they would start looking even more like my parents and start to show similar personality traits. In a way, it would be like my parents are alive again. Or maybe I will look in the mirror someday and see the same old man that I see when I look at my dad today. Then cry and smile at the same time. Hopefully a version of my dad with hair and teeth still though. LOL!

 

An example, of people and inanimate objects being tied together would be the thought of having Street Fighter 2 in the Super NES with no one to pick up the second controller. That isn't just a lonely feeling but a nostalgic one. All the neighborhood kids fighting for their turn, everyone talking shit, people throwing controllers out of frustration, kicking ass over the thrown controllers being broken, etc. is Street Fighter 2. A lot of games require that social aspect. And nostalgia is "clouding" my judgement that doing it online isn't the same. Maybe someday I'll get to be an old man and say,"Hey, kid! Get the fuck off my lawn and pick up this controller!" Then when the cop comes hopefully it is an old dude near retirement that understands what I was trying to accomplish wasn't an example of pediphilia and he picks up the controller, we talk shit, he throws and breaks my controller, I throw his hat and yell,"What the fuck, Barney Fife?!", he gets offended and puts me in handcuffs, I bribe him with a game of Twisted Metal and say that he can use the Outlaw cop car, I notice he is winning so I distract him by throwing a donut across the room, he gets offended again, etc. icon_mrgreen.gif



#82 Kosmic Stardust ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:32 PM

 

...

 

Mmm 'kay?

 

= = = = = = = =

 

I think surrounding ourselves with old tech is the closest one can get to genuine time travel. But the collection is new and old stuff, kind of a cornucopia of all video game generations rolled into the mixing pot. Plenty of people collect antiquated items that predate their own birth so it isn't strictly about reliving the past, but experiencing all the flavors of past generations.

 

And the "collectard" argument is overblown. Yes, people get offended by it's use. It isn't meant to be interpreted as some sort of mental deficiency of the video game collector, though some may interpret it that way. Some people don't make rational buying choices or stick to their financial means. The guy buying everything in sight, and then selling it all at a loss when he can't pay the mortgage is a prime example.

 

And some people make the transition at some point from retro gamer to museum curator, forgetting the whole reason why they started the hobby was to play games, not stare at a wall of CIB games all day. That wall will have "holes" in it, and those "holes" will eventually drive the collector insane. The walls of games become a prison cell. So I used the term primarily to differentiate when it goes from being a fun hobby to being a disorder. That is a line never want to cross...

 

I am severe ADHD and I know others in the forums who have Aspergers or other disorders. I would never apply the "-ard" part to anyone, ever. Just people need to lighten up and not be PC police. "Collectard" is simply someone who makes unwise or uninformed buying or collecting decisions. If collecting gets in the way of family, finances, job, then it becomes a problem.



#83 Schizophretard OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 5:49 AM

Mmm 'kay?
 
= = = = = = = =
 
I think surrounding ourselves with old tech is the closest one can get to genuine time travel. But the collection is new and old stuff, kind of a cornucopia of all video game generations rolled into the mixing pot. Plenty of people collect antiquated items that predate their own birth so it isn't strictly about reliving the past, but experiencing all the flavors of past generations.


That makes sense. Some even collect things that have nothing to do with past generations. For an example, I have a fossil collection.
 

And the "collectard" argument is overblown. Yes, people get offended by it's use. It isn't meant to be interpreted as some sort of mental deficiency of the video game collector, though some may interpret it that way. Some people don't make rational buying choices or stick to their financial means. The guy buying everything in sight, and then selling it all at a loss when he can't pay the mortgage is a prime example.
 
And some people make the transition at some point from retro gamer to museum curator, forgetting the whole reason why they started the hobby was to play games, not stare at a wall of CIB games all day. That wall will have "holes" in it, and those "holes" will eventually drive the collector insane. The walls of games become a prison cell. So I used the term primarily to differentiate when it goes from being a fun hobby to being a disorder. That is a line never want to cross...
 
I am severe ADHD and I know others in the forums who have Aspergers or other disorders. I would never apply the "-ard" part to anyone, ever. Just people need to lighten up and not be PC police. "Collectard" is simply someone who makes unwise or uninformed buying or collecting decisions. If collecting gets in the way of family, finances, job, then it becomes a problem.


I think I may fit into this understanding of collectard and have a collection of real mental disorders which is why I picked the screen name.

For me it isn't so much of a museum curator thing but more of an OCD thing for a game room to feel organized in such a way that makes sense to me for it to be comfortable. I'll use flash carts as an example. Let's say I got rid of all my Atari carts that could be played on my Harmony Cart and only kept the carts that haven't been dumped. I would feel the need to do the same with all my consoles that have flash carts or similar options. There would be a consistency there but something about only having physical media of games not dumped for these systems and for systems that don't have these kind of options at all would feel off to me somehow. The shelves of physical media would look like they don't have many must have hits on them because those are more likely to have been dumped and then the physical media for consoles that don't have these options at all would look like I have a bunch of physical media for systems that themselves weren't must have hits because the more popular systems have more and better versions of these options. So, it would have this look and feel that would seem very odd to me. It would feel something like if someone had all their favorite bands, albums, and greatest hits in an iPod only but then had everything else on Vinyl on display on their shelves. That seems the opposite to me of what would feel right because the greatest hits are what should be jumping out at you when looking at a shelf of what is on display instead of only the more obscure stuff.

 

So, it is OCD thinking like that which determines how I go about collecting. I feel like there needs to be a focus and theme to collecting instead of just buying everything at random but it also has to feel right so that when walking into a game room it doesn't just look organized but looks nice and comfortable giving off good gaming vibes.



#84 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 11:32 AM

That's a bane of many collectors and collections. Finding the appropriate focus. Do you become a completist? Do you focus on certain systems? Do you go after certain genres? Many collections don't have a theme.

 

Then there is organization and display. Many collections simply reside in rubbermaid tubs under the bed. That's pretty uninspiring. To me a collection doesn't have to become the centerpiece of the whole house but it should be displayed nicely. And each piece in it should have personal meaning. It should not be full of haphazard acquisitions.



#85 Kosmic Stardust ONLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 11:33 PM

That makes sense. Some even collect things that have nothing to do with past generations. For an example, I have a fossil collection.

But fossils ARE past generations, so many extinct genus and species represent our planet's rich biological history. I recon if the Earth itself were sentient, it would say, "I remember those..." I loved dinosaurs ever since I was a kid, and my parents brought me to see Jurassic Park in 1993 when I was 12 and it was the coolest movie I'd ever seen. Then later as a teen I saw authentic reconstructed dinosaur skeletons (not replicas but the actual fossils of complete dinosaurs) at the Smithsonian in DC...
 

I think I may fit into this understanding of collectard and have a collection of real mental disorders which is why I picked the screen name.

A lot of us with any variety of mental disorders may have OCD complexes in some form or fashion. I'm not a completionist but sometimes I try to corner obscure subsets, like ie collect all pinball simulators for every system I own. That can be a fun discovery...

I bought into all the Pinball Arcade stuffs on Ouya and later Wii-U only to find Wii-U did not receive a single update since launch. And people on TPA forum thought I was mad for supporting obscure stuff instead of just running steam. But gaming on the computer for me is very uncomfortable because PC is for work and internet. Consoles are for games. Also touchscreen only devices suck IMO. Buttons or GTFO. I still use a flip phone for that very reason...




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