vidak Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 To elaborate on my previous post, there are good number of fairly high profile retro gaming YouTubers I subscribe to. MetalJesusRocks, Classic Game Room, Radical Reggie, and John Hancock to name a few. I watch almost all their videos, but it occurs to me that how I feel about them really comes down to whether or not I already own the games they're discussing in any given video. If they're talking about a game I already own and like then my feelings on the matter are always "That's awesome that they're doing a video on this game, more people should know how good it is!". But if the video in question features a game that I know I want but don't own yet then my reaction is generally "Oh great, now it's going to jump up massively in price." Case in point: I've been meaning to pick up a copy of Wendy: Every Witch Way for the Game Boy Color for a few years now but was never in any rush on it because it had always been a $8 to $12 game for the last decade or so. But then over the course of the last year a few very popular YouTubers mentioned that it was a "hidden gem" in some of their videos and now it's selling for $30 minimum. This sort of thing seems to happen with most obscure games that popular YouTubers bring up in their videos, and it creates this annoying sense of urgency when it comes to collecting where I feel like I have to rush to get copies of all the obscure games I'd like to own before a YouTube personality mentions it and causes the price to quadruple. Luckily the systems I mainly collect for (the Game Boy and Game Boy Color) aren't terribly popular so they haven't seen as much price inflation across the board as some of the more universally appreciated systems, but they still don't escape unscathed. I'm still ticked off about Shantae jumping up to $300+ for a loose cart, and I know I better put down the $75 for a copy of Kid Dracula before the YouTubers take notice of that one too and it suffers the same fate. Indeed it is possible. https://www.pricecharting.com features a "Show Chart" option for every game tracked on the site which will display a graph of the average sale price history of the game all the way back to 2008. All you need to do is take a look at when a game began to spike in price and do a YouTube search to see if any of the major retro gaming YouTubers did a review of it around the same time. For the sake of being a decent human being I'm not going to provide any specific examples of "who caused which games to jump in price", but it's not difficult to put two and two together with a little research. Oh gosh. That's enough to establish causation, I'm sure. I can't believe it. Kind of makes me want to get into making reproductions. The only way to bring down the price is to increase supply of retro games, because they're in fixed quantities with increasing demand as time goes on, unless people make new carts... Well, yeh, anything that gets commercialized and monetized becomes dumb and stupid. Focus is shifted away from putting coolness into the product to expending effort in marketing and selling it. R&D and art and creativity become unimportant. And then cost-cutting comes into the picture and products devolve to the point they become disposable and break too easily. Or till it becomes uninspiring. Commercialization and monetization are good till they're pushed too far. I'd go one step further. Capitalism (money and commerce) are bad full stop. The only way they can succeed is by always going too far and becoming monopolistic and hegemonic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy B. Coyote Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Oh gosh. That's enough to establish causation, I'm sure. I can't believe it. Kind of makes me want to get into making reproductions. The only way to bring down the price is to increase supply of retro games, because they're in fixed quantities with increasing demand as time goes on, unless people make new carts... If you'd like to watch the process of YouTube induced price inflation happen in real time then keep an eye on this price charting page over the next month or two: https://www.pricecharting.com/game/gameboy-color/project-s-11?q=project+s-11# The game in question is Project S-11, a quite good but very obscure and little known spaceship shooter for the Game Boy Color. This game had received almost nothing in the way of YouTube coverage from major channels up until 2 weeks ago, when a channel with around 462,000 subscribers did a video review of it. The current average eBay sold price for Project S-11 is right around $15, but if you check on it periodically over the next couple months I'd predict that you'll see it go up to around $30 or so now that it has received coverage on YouTube. Edited July 16, 2017 by Jin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vidak Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 If you'd like to watch the process of YouTube induced price inflation happen in real time then keep an eye on this price charting page over the next month or two: https://www.pricecharting.com/game/gameboy-color/project-s-11?q=project+s-11# That's awful. This actually is ruining retro gaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Pac Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Seriously lately I heard this about everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Didn't I just explain that I pay for it out of pocket and I have no problem with that? Do you go to car shows and ask the owners "hey, you did make sure hot rod magazine paid for that engine block and the gas to get here, right?" In this world a lot of people spend money on things because it is their hobby. Right. Where they actually get that money is none of anyone's business. Arguing that they shouldn't get it FROM that hobby is completely ridiculous. Or it is your JOB and at that point it's professional and all the "community hugs", "I'm doing it for you all" it's a bunch of crap. Your point just doesn't make any sense. It's not a zero sum game. You can love something AND still make money from it. Many peoples' hobbies *are* their jobs (and vice versa). Also, I mean seriously - who the hell cares about this distinction? It's YouTube, not a political party. You're not voting for libertarianism over communism when watching a YouTube video. You're just watching a YouTube video. What the hell do you care if that YouTuber is doing it for fun or as a job? Edited July 16, 2017 by spacecadet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Everything ruins everything. Not enough people buy a system, it's ruined because no one wants to make games for it, and it's discontinued. If too many people want to buy a system, it's ruined because no one can find it, scalpers jack up the price, and it's forever expensive. If a game is a "sleeper hit," the company that made it doesn't benefit from the sales. If a game is a "hidden gem," then the value and desirability of it goes sky high, along with prices. If a game is too long, then it's impossible or inaccessable or otherwise undesirable If a game is too short, it's a waste of money, not a good value. If people are talking about the latest new thing, it ruins it for the people who were there first. If something is too popular, it's for "teh casuals" or the facebook moms or the free to play crowd, and not a real game. We can play games with labels and assumptions and x is ruining y all day long. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Right. Where they actually get that money is none of anyone's business. Arguing that they shouldn't get it FROM that hobby is completely ridiculous. Your point just doesn't make any sense. It's not a zero sum game. You can love something AND still make money from it. Many peoples' hobbies *are* their jobs (and vice versa). I've visited your channel. It's informative, well done, and in some ways to certain people, entertaining. I see you're getting a lot of views, which I assume translates into some money for you, congratulations. I agree that you don't beg for views to the point of being annoying. You're prepared, well-edited, and from what I have seen, respectful of the viewer's time and attention. You're not part of the "problem" I have with YouTubers. That's not a dig on anyone, just a statement of my personal preference. I also like SD&R's stuff, particularly when he was talking about a certain lizard-based vaporware project. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) You're not part of the "problem" I have with YouTubers. That's not a dig on anyone, just a statement of my personal preference. Well thanks for that. I'm intentionally trying not to bring up my own channel too much because of the danger of sounding like I'm self-promoting, but maybe I should to support my point. Just because a channel is monetized doesn't mean the owner of that channel is some corrupt capitalist taking money and products from whoever offers them. Literally all the money that I make on my channel goes back into either a) equipment for the channel, or b) stuff I buy to feature on the channel. It actually has to, because otherwise I get charged tax on that money, and I'd rather just get some more interesting stuff (because vintage electronics is my *hobby*) that I can put on the channel than keep that money and pay tax on it. So basically as soon as that money comes in, it goes out. I'm constantly looking at how much money is coming in and thinking about what I can use it for to best help the channel, whether it's in front of or behind the camera. I'm envious of people who can just sit in front of a camera in their beautifully furnished and decorated houses and talk about whatever comes to their mind and get 2 million subscribers. I can't; I don't have that kind of personality, and I don't even have a nice house. I've had to buy stuff just to put in the background of my videos to make them look better. I also need to constantly be spending money to grow my channel with new stuff for people to look at. And even though I'm making a little money doing it, it's still my hobby. I have a day job, which doesn't pay enough to keep the channel going. And that's why I monetize. No one should think the vast majority of YouTubers who monetize are getting rich either. The PewDiePies of the world are like rock stars. Not everyone can be U2. I might get a couple hundred bucks every month. That's why you don't see an Apple I or even an Amiga CD32 on my channel - I can't afford anything like that. But maybe someday I will, and I'm not going to apologize for it if I get to that point. Also, this reply wasn't directed at you Flojomojo (you just inspired it), but to others who are *generally* arguing against monetizing and basically saying no channel should ever be monetized because it ruins those channels. Edited July 16, 2017 by spacecadet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Is this really a thing? Bubsy is awful, though... below average shovelware at best. was simply a cash in on the 90's mascots with 'tude craze. Go play earthworm jim instead. Bubsy is just another Mario game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Oh and the YT game girls are cute, of course https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKYH21Up-oc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) And the worst YT'bers are the once drinking during reviewing, how awful is that. Edited July 16, 2017 by high voltage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 So basically as soon as that money comes in, it goes out. I'm constantly looking at how much money is coming in and thinking about what I can use it for to best help the channel, whether it's in front of or behind the camera. Well don't burn out trying to gussy everything up by being a pretty boy with a pretty background. If I was to ever do youtube vids (and I've always wanted to document all my Apple stuff in-depth) you would see a hoarder's den, rat infested, with White Castle burger boxes strewn across the floor. Filmed in the storage shed or garage. Me trying to get from one area to the next and knocking things down. Half-dressed. Smelly. Hairy. Trailer-park'ish. And it would be realistic, lots of information, lots of triva. Just what the viewer wants. If I had the wife do it from a script it would take place inside the house. Everything would be like upscale real-estate presentations, butter-puff makeup and perfect lighting, lots of filler material and girly-gabbing. Dual 4K video, remote mike.. All of it. Just what gets attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Also, I mean seriously - who the hell cares about this distinction? It's YouTube, not a political party. You're not voting for libertarianism over communism when watching a YouTube video. You're just watching a YouTube video. What the hell do you care if that YouTuber is doing it for fun or as a job? Alright, then we should take away all the "paid advertisement" disclaimers on fake reviews, or the "people have been compensated for their testimony", etc... etc.... because you know .... who cares. [see what Amazon had to do to kill the reviews from people that got the items at a discount from the manufacturer for the purpose of the review????? but who cares right?? they are obviously all of the utmost integrity ... whatev.... even if they weren't trying to be more lenient towards the item the fact that they didn't pay full price has a high chance to sway their views] The difference for me is that if you get paid from it and do it as a business I can and should assume you have a vested interested in the things you say/show and how you portray them/time them hence I cannot assume you've been impartial in the least (or are using my time not just with fillers to pad your kickback), if you do it as a hobby with no monetary ties then I can assume that aside your personal preferences (and amateurish production) nothing else is at play BECAUSE you are not getting paid to do any of it and it takes TIME and ENERGY and PERSONAL FUNDS to do it. I am not saying you shouldn't monetize but I have the right to know that there's indeed money being exchanged behind it so I can decide to take a less naive view of the material presented, its timing and portrayal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLeaf Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I'm envious of people who can just sit in front of a camera in their beautifully furnished and decorated houses and talk about whatever comes to their mind and get 2 million subscribers. I can't; I don't have that kind of personality, I think the word you're looking for is "boobs" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 "Are YouTubers Ruining Retro Gaming?"Eh, I don't think so. Perhaps on the surface, they may have a harmful effect of driving up prices on games, hardware, or other things they give exposure to, but I think they're simply a manifestation of the popularity and growth of the hobby now vs. 15-20 years ago. If it wasn't YouTube, it'd be blogs and shitty websites. Shit, I remember back in the '90s looking at sites like Videogames.org or Atari2600.com or sites that had little reviews of 2600 games (which is primarily what I was interested in), and in blurbs about rare games they'd sometimes mention they were under-the-radar titles you should get while they were relatively cheap before other collectors catch on and snatch them up.We'd be at the point we're at regardless; YouTube just got us there faster.I think retrogamers ruined retrogaming (if you believe retrogaming is well and truly ruined, that is, which I don't know if I do...I just enjoy it differently and in my own way now). There are just too many of us bastards now. And when I go to a show like MGC, which used to be about retro console, arcade, computer, and pinball games, and I now see FarCry cosplayers, Nintendo reps, "table-top" gaming, import mania, Oculus Rift demos, vendors peddling action figures, collectible statues, fan art, shitty repro controllers and 3-in-1 clone consoles, and exorbitantly priced retro items...I guess the nice way to put it is I get the sense that the scene has lost touch with itself.And to a point, I get it: "retro" is a moving, generational window. What we used to call classic, retro games is just primitive old stone-age junk to a lot of people now (until they try to sell it, that is; then it's an awesome collectible gravy train...). But even if we're calling PlayStation 2 and GameCube "retro" now (perish the thought), it doesn't change the fact that there's too much other superfluous, extraneous shit going on that inevitably happens when the party is just too damn crowded.OTOH, if not for all those people we might not be getting exciting stuff like the Retron 77, and we might be years behind on community-supported projects, mods, and general knowledge that helps us sustain our old systems and games, both physically and culturally. So maybe it's a wash.[/$0.02] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratwurst Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 The answer is yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Right. Where they actually get that money is none of anyone's business. Arguing that they shouldn't get it FROM that hobby is completely ridiculous. Apparently it is your business. If you remember, this whole argument started with your statement in post #21 when you said that "Making videos is not free or even cheap, so you need to monetize" I proved that this statement is ridiculous, and you responded by stating everyone who doesn't monetize is a leech. So no, in fact you do care where people are getting their money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Alright, then we should take away all the "paid advertisement" disclaimers on fake reviews, or the "people have been compensated for their testimony", etc... etc.... because you know .... who cares. No, those are two completely separate and unrelated issues. Do you think people who write *real* reviews aren't getting paid? That's the argument here. Monetizing has absolutely nothing to do with paid endorsements. It has to do with YouTube giving you a cut of the ad revenue *they're already making from you*. If you don't take that, you're just leaving money on the table as far as I'm concerned. It's like painting someone's house over four days and when they offer you some token amount for doing that work and buying the materials for it, you say "no thanks, I'll pay for that paint and brushes and those tarps and all my time out of my own pocket!" I mean that's great if it's a lifelong friend or family member, but not just some random stranger. If that person is *offering* to pay you for work you are already doing for them, why wouldn't you take the money? Especially if it's not even a random stranger, but a company that's flush with cash? This is just YouTube paying people who make videos for putting those videos on their service. It's got nothing to do with products whatsoever. oh btw, I see you commenting in Metal Jesus' threads, so clearly you do watch monetized videos from people who do this as a job. Unless you're commenting on his videos without watching. Apparently it is your business. If you remember, this whole argument started with your statement in post #21 when you said that "Making videos is not free or even cheap, so you need to monetize" I proved that this statement is ridiculous, I didn't see any "proof" of anything, unless you're talking about how you choose to run your channel, which I "proved" would result in the destruction of YouTube if we all ran our channels that way. I mean if I get to apply the same standard of "proof" you seem to be. YouTube is not letting you stream to 28,000 subscribers as a charity. Somebody is paying for your bandwidth. Edited July 16, 2017 by spacecadet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Youtube pays you something to encourage you to do more and make more videos so they themselves can benefit. They're not giving it to you out of generosity and pleasure. The dangle the carrot and tweak its rod daily. Just enough to get you moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 No, those are two completely separate and unrelated issues. Do you think people who write *real* reviews aren't getting paid? That's the argument here. Monetizing has absolutely nothing to do with paid endorsements. It has to do with YouTube giving you a cut of the ad revenue *they're already making from you*. If you don't take that, you're just leaving money on the table as far as I'm concerned. It's like painting someone's house over four days and when they offer you some token amount for doing that work and buying the materials for it, you say "no thanks, I'll pay for that paint and brushes and those tarps and all my time out of my own pocket!" I mean that's great if it's a lifelong friend or family member, but not just some random stranger. If that person is *offering* to pay you for work you are already doing for them, why wouldn't you take the money? Especially if it's not even a random stranger, but a company that's flush with cash? This is just YouTube paying people who make videos for putting those videos on their service. It's got nothing to do with products whatsoever. oh btw, I see you commenting in Metal Jesus' threads, so clearly you do watch monetized videos from people who do this as a job. Unless you're commenting on his videos without watching. OK, apparently you feel so deep into it that you can't take yourself out of the equation. I did watch a couple of MJ videos KNOWING he does it for a job and I don't actually like them that much hence I watch less and less of them (to be a job they look way too scripted and those awkward pauses when the speaker needs to change are something else but I digress). I wrote a couple of product reviews for Amazon products I bought and got nothing in return and I like it that way so I won't be biased (aside from my cultural/upbringing set that is). The house analogy is so bad, why would I do it to begin with? I can do for charity but not as an hobby, that's for sure. By your own admission you try to generate episodes to get more so you can get better equipment, how would I know the content is not just self-serving to get to the cookie jar? That is what I have issue with. By any means do what you enjoy doing for as long as you enjoy it, just don't patronize everyone with "that's how it is done", "it cost me money to do what I want to do as an hobby" etc...etc... you touch the dough you are in on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy B. Coyote Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 you touch the dough you are in on it. Alternately, you could take a more positive view of humanity and not assume that just because someone is earning money by talking about something they love that they must be a lying sack of @!#?@ trying to somehow deceive you. People who do retro gaming YouTube videos for a living do it because it's pretty much a dream job that they were lucky enough and/or worked hard enough to get. After all, who wouldn't want to get paid to share something they're passionate about with the world? Earning a living by talking about and sharing something you love doesn't make you some kind of criminal. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Earning a living by talking about and sharing something you love doesn't make you some kind of criminal. unless its your kid .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy B. Coyote Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 unless its your kid .... Oh no you didn't! Wow, man... just... wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 By any means do what you enjoy doing for as long as you enjoy it, just don't patronize everyone with "that's how it is done", "it cost me money to do what I want to do as an hobby" etc...etc... you touch the dough you are in on it. "In on" what? You are dangerously close here to telling everyone that you think money in general is some kind of moral outrage. There seems to be a really weird underlying assumption to your posts that's causing us to talk past each other. If your issue is with people making money in general, then there's really no point in even talking about this. If your issue is solely with people making money on YouTube, then that just doesn't square with reality these days. It may have been understandable 12 years ago when YouTube first started (I was one of the first people to use it, btw, with my personal account), but it hasn't been their business model basically since Google bought them. It's just time to update your way of thinking. People make money on YouTube now. That doesn't mean they're shilling products that somebody gives them, it just means YouTube is paying them for the service of producing videos for them, no different than what anybody else does for anybody who provides any other kind of service. There's just no reason to be indignant about that, and certainly no reason to judge any YouTuber who takes that money. They're not taking it from you (unless you choose to subscribe to YouTube Red), they're not taking it from companies providing them products. They're taking it from YouTube itself, who offer it only to get more videos from those people and higher ad rates from advertisers, which helps YouTube too. This is just the way things work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Bubsy is just another Mario game. er, no. Most Mario games are actually good. Key difference there. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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