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Fight For Life - Not as good as it could have been?

Fight For Life

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#1 LianneJaguar64 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:46 AM

So I don't know how many of you watch a chap on YouTube called Guru Larry, but yesterday evening he uploaded a video about five video games that were purposefully made terrible. It's an interesting enough video in itself, but the third spot on the list went to, you guessed it, Fight For Life. . I found it fascinating that there was a better version of the game out there, as I assumed that the game was overall about as good as it was going to get on the Atari Jaguar, but apparently more could have been possible! Now of course I'm not saying that the Jaguar was more powerful than other existing machines of the era (before people start going on about FUMES) but it would be interesting to know what the game would have been like if it had been finished properly. To be honest, I still thought it looked pretty decent as it, and I still intend to get it at some point. Thoughts?

 

 

(If you want to watch it, the segment starts at 10:30)


Edited by LianneJaguar64, Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:48 AM.


#2 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:17 AM

I'm just not sure that's the type of game that should have been attempted on the Jaguar. It just didn't play to its strengths. If Atari really felt they needed a game like that, they should have gone Sega's Virtua Fighter or the PS1's Tobal No. 1 approach and forget about the textures to help maximize frame rate and smoothness. Of course, Atari was all about textured 3D at all costs (see the slideshow-like Supercross 3D, for example), so it's unlikely that approach would have been allowed.



#3 Saturn OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:22 AM

Very interesting. I didn't know it went like that but it sounds about par for the course.

I looked up the final version to download and found this page with info that it was the release from JS2, which is awesome bc I bought like 4 copies :thumbsup:

 

js2.jpg



#4 SoulBlazer OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:38 AM

I watched this same video today. :). I knew there was a better version floating out there, but didn't know the story behind it. So this does seem totally true knowing what we do about Atari. :)

#5 Flojomojo ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:40 AM

That Youtuber is really annoying, and the video's premise is ridiculous. 

 

"5 Games Purposely Made TERRIBLE by Dickish Developers"

 

That's clickbait, pure and simple. Atari didn't "purposely make Fight for Life terrible" by being dicks. Here's a dirty little secret about software development: everything is terrible until you make it good. Atari didn't have the resources (time, talent, money) to make FFL as good as Virtua Fighter. They weren't holding anyone back, and the one dude they recruited to save the company was set up to fail. FFL is not a good product but it really tells the story of 1990s Atari: too little, too late, too lame. 



#6 racerx OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:40 AM

I've had five cd drives, still have three, and all have worked flawlessly. Thanks for perpetuating the AVGN's shtick though.

As far as Fight for Life goes, I have both versions and the beta is only slightly less terrible.

#7 Good_Times OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:00 AM

I've had five cd drives, still have three, and all have worked flawlessly.

I bet you have a wonderful time with them! Super fantastic CD add-on, for sure!

Endless hours of fun!

#8 UHATEIT OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:26 AM

Virtua Fighter was pretty dope! Had it looked that good that would have been great. I still thought it wasn't bad for a fighter. Props to the guy that says he has 4 of the 28 copies of the Limited Edition game!



#9 racerx OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:29 AM

I made no claims about their fun factor, just trying to counter the typical knock against their reliability. For those that actually PLAY games, it's pretty handy for burning homebrews instead of having to flash to a Skunk every time.

By all means though...carry on with the snark.

#10 Bill Loguidice OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:47 AM

I made no claims about their fun factor, just trying to counter the typical knock against their reliability. For those that actually PLAY games, it's pretty handy for burning homebrews instead of having to flash to a Skunk every time.

By all means though...carry on with the snark.

 

It's never good to fight anecdotes with anecdotes, but I do believe I've seen my fair share of reports of bad Jaguar CD drives. My own still worked last time I checked a few years back, but it hasn't seen very many hours of use.

 

Regardless of whether or not they're really prone to failure, it's definitely interesting how there's always an opposite reaction for something like this. I remember when I pointed out how unreliable the Coleco Adam high speed data drives were (and personally experienced that with at least three that destroyed tapes at a prodigious rate), someone was ready with a counter to say that that wasn't true. It's probably impossible to know for sure about the reliability of any of this without hard data that simply doesn't exist (although I will say that Otrona Attache computers, Bally Astrocade consoles, and a few other platforms like the VideoBrain - anecdotes or not - you'd have a very hard time convincing me they weren't naturally failure-prone). 



#11 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:48 AM

Props to the guy that says he has 4 of the 28 copies of the Limited Edition game!


Why 4 copies? Not like it's Team Tap or JagLink compatible. :lol:

#12 Trooper Galactus OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:50 AM

I've had five cd drives, still have three, and all have worked flawlessly. Thanks for perpetuating the AVGN's shtick though.

As far as Fight for Life goes, I have both versions and the beta is only slightly less terrible.

Yeah, I've only ever owned one, and it works just fine.  Not saying he didn't have bad luck, but he really overstated things and avoiding some of the better titles on the Jag CD (most of which, admittedly, were not part of the original library).



#13 toiletunes OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:52 AM

The ColecoVision was in third place in the console race and needed a killer app, so they made Donkey Kong a pack-in exclusive so that previous colecovision owners would have to buy another console. Then they deliberately made the other versions (2600, INTY) look terrible. HELLOOO YOUUU. My next video will be called the top two Atari games named ET or PACMAN that singlehandedly caused the videogame crash.


Edited by toiletunes, Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:52 AM.


#14 Good_Times OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:07 PM

It's never good to fight anecdotes with anecdotes, but I do believe I've seen my fair share of reports of bad Jaguar CD drives. My own still worked last time I checked a few years back, but it hasn't seen very many hours of use.
 
Regardless of whether or not they're really prone to failure, it's definitely interesting how there's always an opposite reaction for something like this. I remember when I pointed out how unreliable the Coleco Adam high speed data drives were (and personally experienced that with at least three that destroyed tapes at a prodigious rate), someone was ready with a counter to say that that wasn't true. It's probably impossible to know for sure about the reliability of any of this without hard data that simply doesn't exist (although I will say that Otrona Attache computers, Bally Astrocade consoles, and a few other platforms like the VideoBrain - anecdotes or not - you'd have a very hard time convincing me they weren't naturally failure-prone).

I lament that the Jag CD units weren't repurposed (god knows there were PLENTY of 'em -- used to see clearance units stacked up the walls) as medical equipment in the same way that Jaguars were.....at least then they'd have had a CHANCE to bring at least SOME positivity/usefulness into various lives, sigh.....

IMG_3137.JPG

I wonder what modern medical technology could have done with so many unsold CD units? They could have served the elderly and infirmed in so many helpful ways!

IMG_3138.JPG

#15 racerx OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:25 PM

I lament that the Jag CD units weren't repurposed (god knows there were PLENTY of 'em -- used to see clearance units stacked up the walls) as medical equipment in the same way that Jaguars were.....at least then they'd have had a CHANCE to bring at least SOME positivity/usefulness

Jags weren't repurposed...the company bought the tooling to make the white shells.

Do you actually know ANYTHING, or are you just here to troll?

[Edit] Hey, that's my white Jag. Small world! :)

Edited by racerx, Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:37 PM.


#16 Good_Times OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:37 PM

Do you actually know ANYTHING

"Anything"? Sure, lots of stuff. For example, did you know that isopods can grow to several FEET in length? Pretty scary, huh?

You seem upset. Deep breathing excercises, fresh air, and/or getting laid could possibly help, though it's hard to say in your case; it's not often that I've seen someone become so emotional over a 20-year-old failed console.
Thankfully, we've got folks like you to carry the Jag CD torch so that it might live on FOREVER!

#17 racerx OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:39 PM

Not upset. If you're merely ignorant, that can be helped. If you're simply trolling, then troll on, good sir.

#18 UHATEIT OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:42 PM

Why 4 copies? Not like it's Team Tap or JagLink compatible. :lol:

It's not but still good for him for being there when they were released and scooping them up.



#19 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:08 PM

Why 4 copies? Not like it's Team Tap or JagLink compatible. :lol:

Well, I bought two because there were two labels and I couldn't decide which :)



#20 Clint Thompson ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:16 PM

Here's a dirty little secret about software development: everything is terrible until you make it good. Atari didn't have the resources (time, talent, money) to make FFL as good as Virtua Fighter. They weren't holding anyone back, and the one dude they recruited to save the company was set up to fail. FFL is not a good product but it really tells the story of 1990s Atari: too little, too late, too lame. 

 

The other versions mentioned as being better are the earlier versions of the game, before Atari really drilled into it. So yes, FFL was actually decent and Atari proves to be exactly the opposite - everything is good until you make it terrible by texture mapping it to death and changing things 12 times a week until it's completely unplayable. It was said the game played "too fast" so they slowed the match rounds down, which seems almost unbearable in the released version. 



#21 Flojomojo ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:20 PM

We have all seen the beta. It's still garbage. Releasing it in that state wouldn't have changed anything or helped Atari's business situation. 

 



#22 Clint Thompson ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:42 PM

We have all seen the beta. It's still garbage. Releasing it in that state wouldn't have changed anything or helped Atari's business situation. 

 

 

To each their own or everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I at least enjoyed playing the Beta, not so much with the released version. It's no Tekken or Virtua Fighter either way.



#23 Welshworrier OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:47 PM

Istr that the actual story was that Atari hadn't paid so he didn't deliver the final build. Atari had a deadline and so released the last version he had delivered. Not exactly a story fitting with the vids headline then though.

As a certain Mr Hawken helped with Larry Bundy's last video I wonder if he's the source of the claim in this one.

#24 Clint Thompson ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:58 PM

Istr that the actual story was that Atari hadn't paid so he didn't deliver the final build. Atari had a deadline and so released the last version he had delivered. Not exactly a story fitting with the vids headline then though.

As a certain Mr Hawken helped with Larry Bundy's last video I wonder if he's the source of the claim in this one.

 

I tried to confirm that rumor with the programmer but he just mentioned the game was made differently due to the requests of Atari. He was working at Apple last I had contact with but seems to have since moved on. I don't imagine admitting such a thing even if true would be such a smart move for anyone still actively working in their field.



#25 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:10 PM

I have both. They were just at different levels of terribleness.





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