CRT TV vs Modern TV for retro games

[djour]

 

The PS2 is about as old as the Colecovision when the PS2 came out. But it still seems far more modern than the Colecovision in the year 2000.

I think that's a relativity issue. If you put two identical new TVs side by side and hook up a 480p PS2 on one and a 1080p PS4 on the other, you might realize how big a difference there is.

 

PS2 had no Blu-Ray or native wireless controllers. I'm certainly not bagging on it, but it is showing its age.

[Blazing Lazers]

You're preaching to the choir on that one. I spent years upgrading CRTs from Craigslist and thrift stores, though Goodwill no longer has CRTs in my area. It's to the point I can nearly tell the model of Trinitron or I'Art from the front bezel. Not because I'm a savant, but the amount of Google searching I've done figuring out if a drive across town was worth it.

 

BTW, anyone looking for Sony Trinitrons in the KV xxFV310 models (xx being the screen size), they have a unique border around the screen that has a nearly blue hue.

Two of our area Goodwills still have CRTs. Every once in a while I check just in case a really good one came in. But they're getting less common. I really do wonder when that source will dry up. Of the three HDMI CRTs I own, one is a widescreen Toshiba that was found outside a neighbor's house where they had just put it out on the curb, the other widescreen was a store display set that was still there after a decade (always check local independent shops), and the fullscreen was from here on AA. I've only ever seen 6 on Craigslist that could be confirmed as having HDMI in, and all of those deals either fell through or I never heard back from the seller. I look forward to hearing if you do manage to obtain one- they're a great middle-path between regular SD sets and modern flatpanels that most gamers just don't know about.

[Flojomojo]

You can tell that we're kind of hitting a wall in technology. We're as chronologically distant from the PS3 and XBOX 360 as those consoles were from the original Playstation and N64. But the leap from PS3 to PS4 does not seem as big as that.

Someone smarter than me wrote that the jump from a blank screen to Pole Position is always going to be way longer than the jump from Pole Position to Daytona (or Need for Speed, or Forza, or Gran Turismo ...)

 

We are making huge gains in other areas that don't get quite as much attention.

 

- Storage tech is denser and cheaper than ever -- a 4 terabyte drive costs the same as a nice dinner out

- Network speeds are awesome -- I have gigabit fiber to my house for the price I paid for <1megabit DSL a little over a decade ago

- GPUs kick all kinds of ass and can keep an old CPU relevant because the graphics card is doing all the work

 

I still have a 360 and PS3 hooked up, though they don't get much use. PS3's GUI seems antiquated and clunky but the games still look pretty nice. I remember feeling this way between the PS2 (when new) and the PSOne (still getting new games) and the Saturn (which I always loved). Get far enough out in time, though, and those first wave CD systems look ROUGH.

[NinjaWarrior]

Just sensitive to the minute amount of lag that the wireless Wiimotes create?

 

I'm using a Wired Connection threw the GameCube Port

[+wood_jl]

I guess I don't understand the debate. Use what the hell you have.

 

Sometimes, I hook a "classic" console to an LCD and there is a lag. Sometimes, I can put it into "gaming mode" (or whatever) and reduce the lag. The LCD in the next room won't have that option. The LCD in the next room won't have that option, and there WILL be a lag. It's all a turkey-shoot at this point. However, it is becoming evident that in a relatively short period of time, future LCD televisions will delete composite (and other analog inputs), so this shall shortly be a moot point.

 

Use what you have. Use what works. Who cares what other people think.,

 

I have a fair staple of extra CRTs and they work quite well for me. But the old systems still work with my LCDs that (as of now) have a composite input. I am thinking of buying a couple of nice 32" LCDs to throw in the storage room, that DO still have composite (and RF, while we're at it), while they are still available. I don't mind rat-packing retro-technology, or I wouldn't be on this site, in the first place.

 

Short answer: Use what you have if it works. In the future, it will not.

[djour]

I guess I don't understand the debate. Use what the hell you have.

OR... you can read the various posts and opinions in this thread and use that information to determine if you should go out and find something you want. Picking up a CRT is more of an investment in time and energy at this point. If this debate can make it easier for the next guy to decide on which TV to use, I'm all for it.

[Schizophretard]

 

You can tell that we're kind of hitting a wall in technology. We're as chronologically distant from the PS3 and XBOX 360 as those consoles were from the original Playstation and N64. But the leap from PS3 to PS4 does not seem as big as that.

 

The leap between the PS3 and PS4 looks about as big to me as the leap between the PS2 and PS3 or PS and PS2.

[Asaki]

Two of our area Goodwills still have CRTs. Every once in a while I check just in case a really good one came in. But they're getting less common.

They used to have great TVs all the time, but I didn't have anywhere to put them...then I finally have need of one, and they stop selling them >_<

[Bratwurst]

 

The leap between the PS3 and PS4 looks about as big to me as the leap between the PS2 and PS3 or PS and PS2.

 

Technically yes but generally no, the difference isn't as appreciable for the average person. We're not just hitting a wall per visual graphics but also the manhours required to generate content, AAA budget titles are almost unsustainable and take no risks.

[godslabrat]

OR... you can read the various posts and opinions in this thread and use that information to determine if you should go out and find something you want. Picking up a CRT is more of an investment in time and energy at this point. If this debate can make it easier for the next guy to decide on which TV to use, I'm all for it.

Wait... who said I have time or energy?

[Flojomojo]

 

The leap between the PS3 and PS4 looks about as big to me as the leap between the PS2 and PS3 or PS and PS2.

There's a lot of overlap between the "generations," too. I liked that many of the indies on PS4 used to have cross-buy with PS3 and Vita versions.

 

That seems to have dried up now that PS4 is what... 5 years old?

[+Black_Tiger]

 

The leap between the PS3 and PS4 looks about as big to me as the leap between the PS2 and PS3 or PS and PS2.

 

You can argue that the leaps between PS2 to PS3 and PS3 to PS4 are comparable, but the 32-bit generation to next gen transition was the last massive leap we will likely ever see and is more comparable to the difference between PS2 and PS4.

[djour]

As a side note, if have an extra Sony Trinitron kv-32fs100 if anyone wants to pick it up in Phoenix. Free

[Schizophretard]

 

Technically yes but generally no, the difference isn't as appreciable for the average person. We're not just hitting a wall per visual graphics but also the manhours required to generate content, AAA budget titles are almost unsustainable and take no risks.

 

If we are reaching a technological wall then I would think that the PS4 would be as powerful as the best gaming PC you could buy or build not just graphically but also with all specs.

 

AAA budget titles not pushing the specs of consoles is taking a risk.

[Tanooki]

PS4 games (can't speak for PRO) I can visually/performance beat on my just about 3 year old gaming laptop now which has an i7-4710 @2.5ghz(3ghz turbo in gaming), 16GB of RAM, and my 8GB Nvidia 980M chip(equals the 970 desktop in power) video chip.

 

I would think the Pro if you take the 4K out of the equation would probably be a bit more of a problem to match keeping the same settings but I have no idea.

[djour]

PS4 games (can't speak for PRO) I can visually/performance beat on my just about 3 year old gaming laptop now which has an i7-4710 @2.5ghz(3ghz turbo in gaming), 16GB of RAM, and my 8GB Nvidia 980M chip(equals the 970 desktop in power) video chip.

 

I would think the Pro if you take the 4K out of the equation would probably be a bit more of a problem to match keeping the same settings but I have no idea.

And what did you pay for that gaming laptop since you're comparing it to the $399 (at time of launch) PS4? On a cost per cost basis, I think the consoles are closing the gap. Especially with the $500 One X coming out this week.

[Tanooki]

A lot more than $400, but it wasn't just bought for games it was bought to be used very long term over a lot of years as a long term investment that does way more than games and movie/streaming. The PS4 like the consoles of the last generation too are throw aways realistically speaking. They're tethered to how long the companies care to keep hosting terabytes (cumulatively) of patches and fixes as many games that gen and this are released beta level broken. Not to say the PC didn't start that game craze but you can still freely get an old game patch back from the early 90s (25+ years now) and I don't see any PS3/4 or 360/One being so generous. So I put more stock into the swiss army knife a PC is that can best that gaming hardware and do tons more useful things that aren't games too.

 

I think I put up around 4-5x that with the shipping/warranty because it was a very specific custom build Clevo(Sager Computers) setup I had put together.

[Austin]

A lot more than $400, but it wasn't just bought for games it was bought to be used very long term over a lot of years as a long term investment that does way more than games and movie/streaming. The PS4 like the consoles of the last generation too are throw aways realistically speaking. They're tethered to how long the companies care to keep hosting terabytes (cumulatively) of patches and fixes as many games that gen and this are released beta level broken. Not to say the PC didn't start that game craze but you can still freely get an old game patch back from the early 90s (25+ years now) and I don't see any PS3/4 or 360/One being so generous. So I put more stock into the swiss army knife a PC is that can best that gaming hardware and do tons more useful things that aren't games too.

 

I think I put up around 4-5x that with the shipping/warranty because it was a very specific custom build Clevo(Sager Computers) setup I had put together.

 

I swear, you make some of the most amazingly facepalm-worthy posts the internet has ever seen. Perhaps even topping JaguarVision in some cases!

[Tanooki]

You're making no sense at all with that kind of comment. How is buying a gaming level laptop vs owning a less useful PS4 facepalm worthy? Sometimes I think you just like to randomly be a trolling asshole for sport.

[+wood_jl]

OR... you can read the various posts and opinions in this thread and use that information to determine if you should go out and find something you want. Picking up a CRT is more of an investment in time and energy at this point. If this debate can make it easier for the next guy to decide on which TV to use, I'm all for it.

 

It just seems like a we're beating a dead horse, over and over again. Obviously, a system designed for an old CRT will look better on a CRT. Obviously, a system designed for HD will look better on a modern display. What's the mystery?

[keepdreamin]

How is buying a gaming level laptop vs owning a less useful PS4 facepalm worthy?

 

well, if you want to play PS4 games than a gaming laptop isn't very useful, is it?

[Kismet]

 

It just seems like a we're beating a dead horse, over and over again. Obviously, a system designed for an old CRT will look better on a CRT. Obviously, a system designed for HD will look better on a modern display. What's the mystery?

 

That's not true. It's not "It looks better on a CRT" but, "It has less latency on a CRT"

 

The problem is that CRT's color phosphors fade with time, and believe me there are "shader plugins" for emulators to replicate the look of a crappy CRT. So a lot of the whimsy actions of the fringe emulation scene makes people believe that playing on a CRT is somehow a superior experience, when in fact nearly ZERO people played on a good CRT, let alone with RGB/SCART cables. Nostalgia tinted glasses so to speak.

 

To give you an idea, you can buy IPS monitors that aren't as good for gaming, but they make photos look fantastic, or you can buy TN monitors which have the lowest grey-to-grey time, which are better for gaming since they allow for >60fps, but they're all 6-bit panels, so you only have 262144 colors, not 16.7 million colors. Then there are awful glossy screens, and great matte screens, but matte screens require higher brightness.

 

Compare this with playing a NES on a 1980 Sony Trinitron over RF. That was the only option. By all accounts, RF looks like a dogs breakfast compared to anything in HD. Yet we put up with RF analog broadcasts all the way into 2009.

 

So if you're one of the lucky people who found a late model 480i CRT with Component video, you've lucked out, and have the best possible CRT you can play PS2 and earlier games on without modifying the console. But for most people this is not an option, and the amount of space taken up by a large CRT is unjustified. Even goodwill places won't take CRT's anymore.

 

In many ways, chasing the best CRT down to play a classic game console on is a lot like trying to find a vintage record player. There is simply no point, but people will insist that the analog noise creates a better experience.

 

Ultimately what will replace CRT's in things like arcade cabinets will be OLED-types of screens that can just be thrown away every few years.

[Tanooki]

 

well, if you want to play PS4 games than a gaming laptop isn't very useful, is it?

Only if you want first party games, otherwise much of the stuff worthwhile hits the PC and runs nicer too and in a higher resolution so there is a trade off. I had some PS4 games and I thought the Sony published stuff sucked more compared to the PS3 outings so I gave up on the thing after a couple years and the others were on Steam and/or GoG so it was for the best.

[zzip]

You can tell that we're kind of hitting a wall in technology. We're as chronologically distant from the PS3 and XBOX 360 as those consoles were from the original Playstation and N64. But the leap from PS3 to PS4 does not seem as big as that.

Technologically, the gap between PS3 and PS4 is pretty large, but in terms of game design, there's little innovation. We have the same kinds of games with better graphics.

[Flojomojo]

We have the same kinds of games with better graphics.

 

Similar graphics, better shaders and textures.