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Ben Heckís Todd Rogerís Dragster 5.51 record Part2


46 replies to this topic

#1 CapitanClassic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:06 AM

The second video is out, and features Todd and Ben fine tuning the PIC player input Dragster rig.
They use OmniGamers spreadsheet to verify that they can replicate the same results found in the spreadsheet. No conclusion is reached yet. My guess is that part 3 will have Todd playing the game, and the rig recording the inputs. Who knows if this will be dragged out to a part 4

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=qfXwSYzEjcE

#2 keepdreamin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:10 AM

. Who knows if this will be dragged out to a part 4
 

 

:roll:



#3 glazball OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:05 PM

What a fucking joke.  Ben Heck surely has better things to do??  Love Ben Heck but it's sad to see him get dragged into this :)



#4 fluxit OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:24 PM

You're just trying to ster the pot.


Edited by fluxit, Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:24 PM.


#5 CPUWIZ OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:52 PM

Don't drag Ben through the mud.



#6 Goochman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:58 PM

What a fucking joke.  Ben Heck surely has better things to do??  Love Ben Heck but it's sad to see him get dragged into this :)

 

Twin Galaxies engaged Ben to assist with looking into this.  So if Ben had better things to do, appears he decided this was more interesting.



#7 glazball OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:10 PM

Ben is golden, it's Jace - the new owner of Twin Galaxies - who is being ridiculous with all this.  I've read the (180+ page) dispute thread on their forums pertaining to Todd's Dragster score, and at every turn, Jace evades or says they are looking at confirming with an independent 3rd party expert.  This was after Omnigamer, Thomas Jentzsch and others already had looked at the code and determined his score impossible (especially using Todd's supposed method for obtaining that time).  While I have no doubt about Ben Heck's expertise, it is a bit unnecessary at this point.

 

All this time, Todd could simply be streaming his Dragster attempts on Twitch, but isn't.  It's also come out that Todd submitted a faked Activision certificate with the 5.51 time.  In any case, I'll withhold further comment until I can watch this Pt. 2 video at home this evening.



#8 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:11 PM

The technical aspects of this are really neat.  I honestly don't care about the score anymore.



#9 4ever2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:16 PM

Has it been disproved that possibly 'frying' the cart opened some glitch that allowed it that wouldn't show up in any testing or code? Similar to double shots in Space Invaders? Hell I discovered that back in 1980 as a kid with no internet or help from Atari...

#10 DrSidneyZweibel OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:21 PM

Has it been disproved that possibly 'frying' the cart opened some glitch that allowed it that wouldn't show up in any testing or code? Similar to double shots in Space Invaders? Hell I discovered that back in 1980 as a kid with no internet or help from Atari...

i was wondering whether something like this, or perhaps multiple revisions of Dragster existed on real carts, and Todd got one that actually allowed this score to happen.

The thing that gets me so that in the video they explain how Todd performed this score on a real console, live, TWICE, at two different CES shows. I don't really see how that can be disputed - but here we are, dragging along.

Edited by DrSidneyZweibel, Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:21 PM.


#11 keepdreamin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:53 PM

That dude really introduce himself as the "king of videogames"?   :lol:



#12 StanJr OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:18 PM

That dude really introduce himself as the "king of videogames"?   :lol:

 

And "Mr. Activision."  High scores or not, he's a tool.



#13 Jinks OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:23 PM

I did a 5.48 run but could not find my Polaroid.

#14 karokoenig OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:57 AM

I did a 5.48 run but could not find my Polaroid.

3032381885_d991e3a16a_m.jpg

 

Congratulations! In your face, Todd!

 

The King is dead. Long live the King.



#15 Jinks OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:27 AM

3032381885_d991e3a16a_m.jpg
 
Congratulations! In your face, Todd!
 
The King is dead. Long live the King.


Anyone can make any claim they want we need video and a wittness.

#16 dphirschler OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:36 AM

I'm rooting for him.  I want to see it happen on Ben Heck's show.

 

Darryl



#17 Benheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:01 PM

I was happy to do it. I love classic 8-bit hardware and making a RAM dumper/analyzer was a fun challenge.

 

BUT..... I see myself as the guy making the microscope, not the guy using it to analyze blood stains.

 

What I've suggested to Jace is we Osh Park up like 3 of these things, one for Todd, one for Omnigamer, and maybe a third party (perhaps on Atari Age?) For Todd I'd add joystick support, so he can "map in" his style using a real stick, then adjust it manually for best results.

 

Thus far, all of Omni's predictive spreadsheets have been confirmed in real hardware. If it can be done, my system can do it, but the magical formula is not my forte.



#18 Nathan Strum OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:16 PM

I’m also wondering about differences in hardware revisions of the consoles themselves. Would that potentially introduce some timing variances?

#19 LS_Dracon OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:33 PM

Ben, can you build a frictionless, hall sensor based Atari 2600 joystick?


Edited by LS_Dracon, Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 PM.


#20 Shawn OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:43 PM

I was happy to do it. I love classic 8-bit hardware and making a RAM dumper/analyzer was a fun challenge.

 

BUT..... I see myself as the guy making the microscope, not the guy using it to analyze blood stains.

 

What I've suggested to Jace is we Osh Park up like 3 of these things, one for Todd, one for Omnigamer, and maybe a third party (perhaps on Atari Age?) For Todd I'd add joystick support, so he can "map in" his style using a real stick, then adjust it manually for best results.

 

Thus far, all of Omni's predictive spreadsheets have been confirmed in real hardware. If it can be done, my system can do it, but the magical formula is not my forte.

 

What happens if you prove Todd's score is impossible? Will that be presented to the public? I hope Todd is under some sort of contract to be part of the results no matter if they end in his favor or not. He's already been proved to have falsified scores in the past and this one being so public could be the nail in the coffin to his reputation. Todd has had some great feats in gaming but he's also fabricated many feats as well.



#21 Benheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:33 PM

Ben, can you build a frictionless, hall sensor based Atari 2600 joystick?

 

You mean like how the Dreamcast controller works? Yeah that would be pretty straightforward would just need to define the "edge" that it triggers at (since hall effect are analog) I would like to get back into console mods at some point.

 

Regarding the record, I built a device that allows the theories to be tested on real hardware, removing human error. If the score cannot be achieved with this rig, then it's probably not possible.

 

David Crane would be the final say, have seen him at a few conventions this year but he seemed kind of tired, doubt he'd actually give a crap.



#22 karokoenig OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:19 PM

David Crane would be the final say, have seen him at a few conventions this year but he seemed kind of tired, doubt he'd actually give a crap.

 

He's probably just tired of being asked about nothing but Pitfall. Try asking something else - like Dragster - and he'll likely be all yours.



#23 LS_Dracon OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:25 AM

 

You mean like how the Dreamcast controller works? Yeah that would be pretty straightforward would just need to define the "edge" that it triggers at (since hall effect are analog) I would like to get back into console mods at some point.

 

Regarding the record, I built a device that allows the theories to be tested on real hardware, removing human error. If the score cannot be achieved with this rig, then it's probably not possible.

 

David Crane would be the final say, have seen him at a few conventions this year but he seemed kind of tired, doubt he'd actually give a crap.

Yes, with a button to adjust the sensitivity. For Dragster, set a high sensitivity, thus requiring a small tap to the direction for the input.

Not to mention this controller will "never fail", as there no micro switches and stuffs like that. 



#24 Thrakk OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:03 AM

Could Todd have messed with the loop counter by "cutting" a hardware connection mid race - like an "unstable" wire or circuit (think taking a hose and squeezing the body to cut the water flow) and only doing so for a few milliseconds at a time (so as to only manipulate the counter)?



#25 Random Terrain OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:14 PM

I'd like to become the prince of video games. Is there a special school for that or would I have to perform an Illuminati-style Eyes Wide Shut naked sex ritual around a bonfire as I drink the blood of freshly killed virgins in front of a giant owl statue?


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