NES Top Loader get! Upgrade? Kevtris?

[Andromeda Stardust]

For reference, I paid $230 to get my N64 modded with UltraHDMI. Given the currently available options, I would just go with an AVS if you wanna play NES games on an HDTV and keep the top loader stock and and old CRT in case you get the urge to blast some ducks.

 

With AVS, Super NT on the way, HDMI digital adapter for Game Cube, and Wii-U being backwards compatible with Wii, the N64 is the only remaining Nintendo console that needs internal modding to get native HDMI output. Plus you get three generations of Game Boy Games between Super game Boy and Game Boy Player.

[Tanooki]

While your advice is sound for someone who is a deep trench collector I no longer am. If I had the money and know how I'd take my aging CRT out of my arcade cabinet and be done with the technology entirely. I don't want an AVS, offers me nothing of value as I have no interest in scoreboard and have a honeybee so I can run Famicom fine. I've given up on playing light gun games so it's no loss.

 

I just want what I asked for, the HDMI kit installed into that original system as I'd rather still use (video update aside) original hardware.

[SignGuy81]

Just thought I would add that unless the person that does the mod is one of their approved installers their isn't a warranty so that would be something to keep in mind as well, not sure if anyone here that has done them is approved or not but if they are I would go with them just to have the warranty.

Edited January 29, 2018 by SignGuy81

[icemanxp300]

Just thought I would add that unless the person that does the mod is one of their approved buddy installers their isn't a warranty so that would be something to keep in mind as well, not sure if anyone here that has done them is approved or not but if they are I would go with them just to have the warranty.

 

Fixed.

[SignGuy81]

Just thought I would add that unless the person that does the mod is one of their approved buddy installers their isn't a warranty so that would be something to keep in mind as well, not sure if anyone here that has done them is approved or not but if they are I would go with them just to have the warranty.

 

 

 

Fixed.

 

I wouldn't doubt it I was just letting him know though.

Edited January 29, 2018 by SignGuy81

[Tanooki]

Well that's no surprised, usually is the good ol boy network with jobs, mods, whatever. You get into the warranty circle or you get no help.

 

Not that I want to pay more to a buddy, but is there a list? It couldn't hurt to comparison shop against someone on this site who may do it for notably less, but if it's like a $20 difference or something I'd take the warranty if it's long enough and not some 90 day junk.

[SignGuy81]

Well that's no surprised, usually is the good ol boy network with jobs, mods, whatever. You get into the warranty circle or you get no help.

 

Not that I want to pay more to a buddy, but is there a list? It couldn't hurt to comparison shop against someone on this site who may do it for notably less, but if it's like a $20 difference or something I'd take the warranty if it's long enough and not some 90 day junk.

https://www.game-tech.us/recommended-hi-def-nes-kit-installers/

 

Only 4 people listed for US so probably be higher going with approved/buddy.

 

 

Warranty information can be found bottom of this page https://www.game-tech.us/product/hi-def-nes/

Edited January 29, 2018 by SignGuy81

[Andromeda Stardust]

While your advice is sound for someone who is a deep trench collector I no longer am. If I had the money and know how I'd take my aging CRT out of my arcade cabinet and be done with the technology entirely. I don't want an AVS, offers me nothing of value as I have no interest in scoreboard and have a honeybee so I can run Famicom fine. I've given up on playing light gun games so it's no loss.

 

I just want what I asked for, the HDMI kit installed into that original system as I'd rather still use (video update aside) original hardware.

I'm not knocking that you wanted original hardware, but the fact remains the cost of having the mod installed by a 3rd party likely exceeds the retail price of an AVS.

 

MobiusStripTech performed the UltraHDMI mod on my N64 and also does HiDef NES installs. His services thread is here, and I would highly recommend him:

http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=169690

 

I know you aren't on NintendoAge anymore, but I could pass along your info. Let me know via PM if you are interested and I'll drop him a line.

[Osgeld]

https://www.game-tech.us/recommended-hi-def-nes-kit-installers/

 

Only 4 people listed for US so probably be higher going with approved/buddy.

 

 

Warranty information can be found bottom of this page https://www.game-tech.us/product/hi-def-nes/

 

yea let me just beg Yurkie for that approved installer token

[Tanooki]

I'm not knocking that you wanted original hardware, but the fact remains the cost of having the mod installed by a 3rd party likely exceeds the retail price of an AVS.

 

MobiusStripTech performed the UltraHDMI mod on my N64 and also does HiDef NES installs. His services thread is here, and I would highly recommend him:

http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=169690

 

I know you aren't on NintendoAge anymore, but I could pass along your info. Let me know via PM if you are interested and I'll drop him a line.

I know you're not, and NA isn't that big of a stretch. He's on another forum I'm on and seen him on facebook too. I'd rather just not have an AVS even if it could be more. Thanks though.

[DJ Clae]

Why go HDMI unless it's the only console you plan to play on a modern TV? With NESRGB you can use the same upscaler with all your consoles. You can't use HDMI on a CRT.

[Tanooki]

I don't want a framemeister (or similar upscaler) and have zero interest in that. That's really it. I'd rather the system just do it direct. Whenever a SNES option opens up some day if it does i'll do that too, same with the PC Engine if possible in such a tiny space. Otherwise I'd settle on some crappy RCA to HDMI external thing.

[kevtris]

 

 

How much do you pay someone for a couple minutes of work?

 

However this install is a bit more than just swapping two 40 pin chips.

 

What's more mind boggling to me is paying someone $125 for a pcb and kit that probably only cost about $5.

 

Ya ya his time to design and put it together. I know its worth a billion $$.

 

Seeing how the FPGA and transmitter chip alone total around $20, not including the rest of the parts, soldering, testing, programming, shipping, etc. your estimate is off by over 10x. If you can produce a hi def NES mod for $5, by all means go for it.

 

 

Sorry but you are wrong. I literally just desoldered two PPU chips not even a month ago for a front loading nes system that had a bad PPU and swapped with a parts system. My hakko fr-300 literally removed the chips in like a minute or two. There is nothing special about removing those chips. Now desoldering Jaguar roms is a pita and even those can be removed in a few minutes as well.

 

 

 

This is why he is selling them for like $100+ profit on each. If you are thirsting to death a bottle of water is worth $100 as well, so does that mean people should charge $100 for a bottle of water just because people feel it is worth it?

 

I guess that's why Apple can charge $70 for a battery that cost them $.25 because it is worth it.

 

I wish people would stop paying greed and we would all be better off.

 

Not sure why you have such a vendetta against me, but I will play along in case this isn't a trollolololol.

 

You have absolutely no idea how much money and time I have invested into this project. Countless hours and around $10K of tools, test equipment, and funds went into the first 2 rounds of prototypes. After that, I sent a new car's worth of money to China to get the first run of production boards made. The amount of money I tied up in the boards is substantial. A lesser person might have resorted to crowdfunding, but I put most of my savings into getting the first run made.

 

Your $100 water bottle argument is pretty specious; no one needs high resolution graphics to live. This is what we call a "discretionary expense". If you think you can design, program, and produce a comparable product for less, by all means do so. I sure wished I was making a $100 profit on each unit, that'd be awesome. Unfortunately for me it's less than half this. On the upshot, I did pay off my initial investment and threw some of it into my mortgage principle so there is that. There is a "long tail" of supports and fixes for products like this, even mature ones. This means that I am still putting in unpaid hours on improvements and fixes to the project as time goes on. This is fine, and is just part of the deal and I am not complaining, just laying out some of the finer details people might miss.

 

edit: forgot to mention. The hi def is going to be back in stock in a week or so. I ran out last year and couldn't get more made because I was deep in the super nt project, and couldn't spare the time to program/test them and get them produced. I received more boards a few weeks ago and programmed/tested a bunch so it's ready to go again. Hopefully I won't run out again next time and can order before that happens depending on what paid work/projects I have going.

[CZroe]

Why go HDMI unless it's the only console you plan to play on a modern TV? With NESRGB you can use the same upscaler with all your consoles. You can't use HDMI on a CRT.

NES RGB does not give digital audio.

NES RGB will not add expansion audio for games that don’t have it even on an Everdrive with modded console (LaGrange Point, anyone?).

NES RGB does not include an upscaler.

Upscalers are still expensive.

Not all of your consoles will work with the upscaler without mods and upgrades (same troubles you’d go through for an analog RGB CRT setup).

Even then, you will find that some consoles and games just won’t work right (games that desync due to 240p/480i switching, SNES on an OSSC, etc).

 

I’d rather have a set of HD Retrovision cables and all the adapters with individual mods for all the consoles. That would allow me to play them on virtually any modern TV. I still plan to get an OSSC but I’ll also have Hi-Def NES, UltraHDMI, GC Video, and HD Retrovision cables eventually. OSSC or Frameister or RGB CRT are each only half-solutions.

[AtariBrian]

NES RGB does not give digital audio.

NES RGB will not add expansion audio for games that don’t have it even on an Everdrive with modded console (LaGrange Point, anyone?).

NES RGB does not include an upscaler.

Upscalers are still expensive.

Not all of your consoles will work with the upscaler without mods and upgrades (same troubles you’d go through for an analog RGB CRT setup).

Even then, you will find that some consoles and games just won’t work right (games that desync due to 240p/480i switching, SNES on an OSSC, etc).

 

I’d rather have a set of HD Retrovision cables and all the adapters with individual mods for all the consoles. That would allow me to play them on virtually any modern TV. I still plan to get an OSSC but I’ll also have Hi-Def NES, UltraHDMI, GC Video, and HD Retrovision cables eventually. OSSC or Frameister or RGB CRT are each only half-solutions.

And I will add that the cheap scalers are bad quality , especially compared to the Framemeister . The Framemeister is awesome but so expensive .

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Seeing how the FPGA and transmitter chip alone total around $20, not including the rest of the parts, soldering, testing, programming, shipping, etc. your estimate is off by over 10x. If you can produce a hi def NES mod for $5, by all means go for it.

 

 

Not sure why you have such a vendetta against me, but I will play along in case this isn't a trollolololol...

Don't waste your time with Iceman. He's been trolling threads all over Atariage and thinks he knows it all.

[DJ Clae]

It's dangerous to trivialize removing the PPU. Newbs are likely to wreck their systems without the proper skill and equipment.

 

NES RGB does not give digital audio.
NES RGB will not add expansion audio for games that don’t have it even on an Everdrive with modded console (LaGrange Point, anyone?).
NES RGB does not include an upscaler.
Upscalers are still expensive.
Not all of your consoles will work with the upscaler without mods and upgrades (same troubles you’d go through for an analog RGB CRT setup).
Even then, you will find that some consoles and games just won’t work right (games that desync due to 240p/480i switching, SNES on an OSSC, etc).

I’d rather have a set of HD Retrovision cables and all the adapters with individual mods for all the consoles. That would allow me to play them on virtually any modern TV. I still plan to get an OSSC but I’ll also have Hi-Def NES, UltraHDMI, GC Video, and HD Retrovision cables eventually. OSSC or Frameister or RGB CRT are each only half-solutions.

I'm repeating a lot of what I'm going to say in the intro of my upcoming NES modding video in this thread, but basically...

 

Expansion audio can be added to the original audio circuit with a mod. I don't get the big deal with digital audio. Analog audio has always been just fine. It's not part of the retro experience that needs improvement.

 

RGB is the language of retro gaming.

 

But to be clear, I have to give a big thanks to Kevtris for this tireless efforts. The HiDef NES board is amazing tech. It's the way to go for anyone wanting a plug-and-play direct-to-HDMI solution.

Edited January 30, 2018 by DJ Clae

[CZroe]

I'm repeating a lot of what I'm going to say in the intro of my upcoming NES modding video in this thread, but basically...

 

Expansion audio can be added to the original audio circuit with a mod. I don't get the big deal with digital audio. Analog audio has always been just fine. It's not part of the retro experience that needs improvement.

 

RGB is the language of retro gaming.

 

But to be clear, I have to give a big thanks to Kevtris for this tireless efforts. The HiDef NES board is amazing tech. It's the way to go for anyone wanting a plug-and-play direct-to-HDMI solution.

Yes, expansion audio can be added to almost any NES console, but Hi-Def NES replicates the hardware from the cartridge. Even with a console modded for expansion audio, you still don’t get VRC7 in an Everdrive N8 or Power Pak. Unless you have an actual copy of LaGrange Point and a modded adapter to use with your console, you aren’t going to get the audio in a simple expansion audio mod. With Hi-Def NES, you will. Even with original games you no longer have to mod the console/adapter. The digital audio is a very good thing.

[DJ Clae]

Yes, expansion audio can be added to almost any NES console, but Hi-Def NES replicates the hardware from the cartridge. Even with a console modded for expansion audio, you still don’t get VRC7 in an Everdrive N8 or Power Pak. Unless you have an actual copy of LaGrange Point and a modded adapter to use with your console, you aren’t going to get the audio in a simple expansion audio mod. With Hi-Def NES, you will. Even with original games you no longer have to mod the console/adapter. The digital audio is a very good thing.

My brothers and I exclusively use real carts for expansion audio, but I've read that the flash drives do not have the correct volume levels. This can be fixed with the mod I suppose, by using different resistor values. I think this is really unfortunate and I don't understand why they went with such a low audio level for the flash carts.

 

Another question I have about this which wasn't answered very well in any threads that I've been able to find is whether or not the Famicom version of the Everdrive has the same problem as the NES version. I mean, I can sort of understand why the NES version might go with a lower audio level, since the console doesn't support it without modding, but there's no reason for the Famicom version to output the wrong audio level except for whatever hardware limitations the flash cart has.

 

Either way, I really think this should be addressed if possible. Even though the flash carts already have issues reproducing the same sounds as real carts, they ought to at least output the right volume levels if possible. I wasn't aware of any reason the Hi-Def NES would correct this unless it too is emulating the expansion audio.

[CZroe]

My brothers and I exclusively use real carts for expansion audio, but I've read that the flash drives do not have the correct volume levels. This can be fixed with the mod I suppose, by using different resistor values. I think this is really unfortunate and I don't understand why they went with such a low audio level for the flash carts.

 

Another question I have about this which wasn't answered very well in any threads that I've been able to find is whether or not the Famicom version of the Everdrive has the same problem as the NES version. I mean, I can sort of understand why the NES version might go with a lower audio level, since the console doesn't support it without modding, but there's no reason for the Famicom version to output the wrong audio level except for whatever hardware limitations the flash cart has.

 

Either way, I really think this should be addressed if possible. Even though the flash carts already have issues reproducing the same sounds as real carts, they ought to at least output the right volume levels if possible. I wasn't aware of any reason the Hi-Def NES would correct this unless it too is emulating the expansion audio.

I have both the Famicom Everdrive N8 and NES Everdrive N8 and can confirm that they both do this. Fortunately, the Hi-Def NES completely fixed this by generating the audio itself. It doesn’t just replicate the CPU: It replicates all audio hardware known in all NES/Famicom cartridges in order to offer digital audio without converting analog to digital. That’s the same way it gets digital video when it isn’t exposed outside the PPU.

 

In short: Hi-Def NES completely fixes bad flash cart expansion audio, adds expansion audio chips that even they don’t support, and completely negates the need for expansion audio modding on the console or adapter. This has been enormously helpful.

 

I have an unmodded Sharp twinFAMI and it pains me to hear the difference between Zelda II FDS and Zelda II FDS on FC EDN8. The Hi-Def NES supposedly doesn’t work in that system. [emoji20] I’m so glad I don’t have to deal with it on my others thanks to Hi-Def NES.

 

My twin bro and I share a collection and we prefer original carts too but the ED allows for experimentation and consolidation.

 

Let’s also remember that the NES-101 doesn’t even have the usual expansion audio pin in the cartridge connector so an adapter must be modded to move to one of the remaining vestigial pins. My expansion audio modded Castlevania III Dracula’s Curse uses the original unused pin from the donor PCB (a normal copy of Drac’s Curse). Thanks to Hi-Def NES it works properly on my NES-101 too. [emoji4] I would have to modify a 72 pin to 72 pin adapter of some kind otherwise, and since the Game Genie doesn’t even fit an NES-101 it would be a little tricky.

Edited January 30, 2018 by CZroe

[Osgeld]

It's dangerous to trivialize removing the PPU. Newbs are likely to wreck their systems without the proper skill and equipment.

 

 

its the most difficult operation known to man, and one minor slip up and the nintendo police will come and kill you, thus you should never try

 

is that better?

[icemanxp300]

 

Not sure why you have such a vendetta against me, but I will play along in case this isn't a trollolololol.

 

 

I don't have a vendetta against you I just think these prices are absurd.

 

When you sell something to play 30 year old games for more than a brand new console cost that just shouts to me overpriced. However it is only my opinion. You obviously have people appreciate what you do, I'm just not one of them. Before I spend this kind of money I would keep playing on a CRT.

[DJ Clae]

I have both the Famicom Everdrive N8 and NES Everdrive N8 and can confirm that they both do this. Fortunately, the Hi-Def NES completely fixed this by generating the audio itself. It doesn’t just replicate the CPU: It replicates all audio hardware known in all NES/Famicom cartridges in order to offer digital audio without converting analog to digital. That’s the same way it gets digital video when it isn’t exposed outside the PPU.

 

In short: Hi-Def NES completely fixes bad flash cart expansion audio, adds expansion audio chips that even they don’t support, and completely negates the need for expansion audio modding on the console or adapter. This has been enormously helpful.

I really like that about the Hi-Def NES.

 

Thanks for confirming. I think the audio levels of the flash carts really needs to be addressed if possible.

 

I'm modding the NES for my brother in my video to use the correct levels for real carts. He already has Castlevania 3, Gimmick, Madara and Esper Dream 2. And Lagrange isn't too expensive. If I ever get a flash cart, I will avoid playing expansion audio games with it.

 

This thread suggests a 100k resistor and a 1uF capacitor and I thought I'd start there:

http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=1860.0

[CZroe]

 

Sorry but you are wrong. I literally just desoldered two PPU chips not even a month ago for a front loading nes system that had a bad PPU and swapped with a parts system. My hakko fr-300 literally removed the chips in like a minute or two. There is nothing special about removing those chips. Now desoldering Jaguar roms is a pita and even those can be removed in a few minutes as well.

 

 

 

This is why he is selling them for like $100+ profit on each. If you are thirsting to death a bottle of water is worth $100 as well, so does that mean people should charge $100 for a bottle of water just because people feel it is worth it?

 

I guess that's why Apple can charge $70 for a battery that cost them $.25 because it is worth it.

 

I wish people would stop paying greed and we would all be better off.

You removed it in a minute or two... with a $330+ tool. If this was meant to show us how easily and cheaply it could be done, then LOL!

 

I use a crappy $150 desoldering station for the job and have installed about 30 kits. Those bulb-type desoldering irons need a new tip after nearly every job of this type and that’s a problem since Radio Shack isn’t around anymore. It’s also 45w and prone to cooking chips and burning off pads/traces. If someone is doing professional installs with that then their labor probably is worth hundreds!

 

The price is what people are willing to pay. If it’s so much that more people start doing it themselves then it’s enough to attract more installers/competition and the price goes down, down, down. The price is whatever the market supports. Complaining about the price of professional modwork based on difficulty is just silly.

Edited January 30, 2018 by CZroe

[SignGuy81]

You removed it in a minute or two... with a $330+ tool. If this was meant to show us how easily and cheaply it could be done, then LOL!

 

I use a crappy $150 desoldering station for the job and have installed about 30 kits. Those bulb-type desoldering irons need a new tip after nearly every job of this type and that’s a problem since Radio Shack isn’t around anymore. It’s also 45w and prone to misuse by some people which will be cooking chips and burning off pads/traces. If someone is doing professional installs with that then their labor probably is worth hundreds!

 

The price is what people are willing to pay. If it’s so much that more people start doing it themselves then it’s enough to attract more installers/competition and the price goes down, down, down. The price is whatever the market supports. Complaining about the price of professional modwork based on difficulty is just silly.

 

I agree with the bold part above or at least the first part. The tips are still around they use the same tips as these https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECG-JT-103-NTE-45-WATT-TIP-REPLACEMENT-TIP-FOR-J-045-DS/201429545302?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 but I agree 100 percent the tips don't last long.

 

EDIT:

Fixed the underlined part above for you.

Edited January 30, 2018 by SignGuy81