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Preservation or Theft? old games etc.


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#1 cimerians OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:14 PM

Found this today, looks like a battle....

 

https://arstechnica....d-game-servers/



#2 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:56 PM

I remember running a WoW server emulator for my own personal dumb amusement.  It's pretty sad when reverse engineered game server software gets outlawed in the name of protecting I.P.



#3 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:18 PM

They're butthurting because they can't force everyone to move forward and buy new content. It's important to remember that a founding principle of game servers was and is and forever will be a means to prematurely make a product obsolete before its time.


Edited by Keatah, Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:20 PM.


#4 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:25 PM

Preservation! Where are the votes getting tallied up?



#5 TPA5 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:43 PM

They're butthurting because they can't force everyone to move forward and buy new content. It's important to remember that a founding principle of game servers was and is and forever will be a means to prematurely make a product obsolete before its time.

 

That's why I groan at the dearth of modern games that require some kind of online functionality to add to gameplay. Someday, when the servers shut down, it'll be a gimped game.



#6 pacman000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:37 PM

This caught my eye:
 

MADE argues that simply being able to view videos and read descriptions of "abandoned" online gameplay is not enough for researchers. Being able to actually play online games as they were originally designed can be useful for anthropological studies, psychological experiments, cultural appreciation, and even for design students looking to see how technical limitations were overcome, the museum argues.

The ESA, though, thinks this argument "should be viewed with considerable skepticism," pointing out that MADE "cites no specific example of serious scholarly work following from its preservation activities. To the contrary, it is clear from MADE’s website that at its museum, public recreational play predominates over serious scholarship."

 

Are museums only open to scholars? Is the public at large not allowed to enjoy art as a recreational activity? Then again, if a museum wanted to show a film, would they not need the distributor's permission? Interesting conundrum...

 

 

They're butthurting because they can't force everyone to move forward and buy new content. It's important to remember that a founding principle of game servers was and is and forever will be a means to prematurely make a product obsolete before its time.

I'd call that a conspiracy theory, except I've had classes where the professor said that that's what cloud services were for; to ensure a constant stream of revenue for the developer. And they played it up like it was a good thing!


Edited by pacman000, Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:37 PM.


#7 Gamemoose OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 2, 2018 1:46 PM

Here's an example of experiencing something as it was in the past:

A couple times a year, The Wade House (part of the Wisconsin Historical Society) hosts the opportunity to cook a meal like they used to in the 1800's. You go into the actual house the Wades used as a hotel/b&b of sorts and use the same items (cookware, cast iron stove, etc) that people back then used.

I, who knows his way aroubd a kitchen pretty well, felt like I was practically cooking for the first time. The recipes from back then were vague in preparation, heat was uneven-it was astounding how these folks could manage feeding a bunch of travelers three squares a day! It was a learning experience, a fun experience for most (I take pride in my cooking and this gave me some lumps).

So why can't games be seen in this light as well? Just because it's digital/electronic?

#8 pacman000 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 2, 2018 10:20 PM

"Just because it's digital/electronic?"

Just because it's still copyrighted.

#9 cimerians OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 3, 2018 11:17 AM

The problem will always lie with the publisher, some could care less, others will come after you with pitchforks wearing 'my old game server is copyrighted' t-shirts. 
 
I wouldn't bother with these types of games, let them die forever sitting in that Publishers pile of copyrighted graves. 


#10 Tanooki OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 3, 2018 8:49 PM

 

I'd call that a conspiracy theory, except I've had classes where the professor said that that's what cloud services were for; to ensure a constant stream of revenue for the developer. And they played it up like it was a good thing!

 

I would have too and made it as nicely eloquent as Keatah did as well but your reason there is where I would have gone with it.  They don't even bother to hide the fact but all these game server checks going back even before the cloud was anything but the bringer of rain storms this shit was baking in the oven.  You had those games that would knock on a server to make sure you were playing with a legit copy of a game online, still had your disc in the tray, had an active connection, or whatever else.  It was controlling access and allowing something to work only so long before the pay looks better with an updated product or a replacement one, or at worst killing it to resell it on yet another network at full price.  This stuff crawls as far back as the days of Ultima Online and Everquest.

 

Them moaning about bringing a game server back up so some people can again enjoy an old game of Phantasy Star, or an earlier version of Quake or Unreal Tournament does them absolutely no harm as far as stealing old code they'd even bother to be using anymore.  They're pissed people find more value in when they took more pride in their work and less pride in locking it behind a wall of pure exploitative bullshit so they find any way to use that old stuff.

 

Look at all those lovely sites that still persist like GameCopyWorld and friends who keep shoveling up ever updated anti-CD/DVD crack checks so people can otherwise use stuff that would be DOA if the publisher allowed it, and in other cases software that just hacks out an online mandatory check that will keep a never online single player campaign offline entirely just because of greed and paranoia.

 

It would take some solid lies and bribes I think to reverse or tweak that DMCA exemption to harm people just trying to enjoy a very out of date piece of software but you never do know with sheistiness afoot.



#11 Mord OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Mar 3, 2018 9:38 PM

"Just because it's digital/electronic?"

Just because it's still copyrighted.

 

To be perfectly honest if there's any copyright change needed, it would be something along the lines of "if the game becomes completely unplayable due to it being dependent on the developer/publisher to maintain a server and they're unwilling to do so, copyright should become unenforceable"  Copyright is all about enriching the public domain (and one century now maybe, just maybe, industry will let something copyrighted expire into the public domain as the law intended) by giving time limited monopolies to the creator. But if copyright is essentially killing that thing, deliberately, then it should be public domained immediately - or at least the developer should not be able to claim damages for something they aren't selling and refuse to let work - unless they ARE hosting a server or selling server software for others to run their own.

 

But that'd make sense and get in the way of profit. So don't hold your breath expecting it to become the case in our lifetime. :)



#12 Gamemoose OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Mar 4, 2018 9:06 AM

"Just because it's digital/electronic?"

Just because it's still copyrighted.


I was sharing my opinion on the ESA's take on MADE's argument:

The ESA, though, thinks this argument "should be viewed with considerable skepticism," pointing out that MADE "cites no specific example of serious scholarly work following from its preservation activities. To the contrary, it is clear from MADEs website that at its museum, public recreational play predominates over serious scholarship."


Copyright is a given in this whole conversation. It's trying to find a way to show these games have a historical merit and aren't just flights of fun. Hence my example of an experience of doing something that the visitors opted to do for fun and do that activity as it was done over 150 years or so ago. The only difference is that activity is physical while video games are electronic and essentially not tangible save for controls.

Edited by Gamemoose, Sun Mar 4, 2018 9:06 AM.


#13 Newsdee OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:15 PM

Next thing you know they will claim the game is a service and you are just renting /"licensing" the content.

In any case the real tragedy are those mobile games which die when they are taken off the walled garden.

#14 Tanooki OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:23 PM

Isn't that what the EULAs no one reads about those online store fronts and the downloads already says?  You're not buying the game even if it says BUY NOW, you're just renting a license they can terminate for any reason at any time with no compensation entitled on the back end.



#15 SignGuy81 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:39 PM

I remember back in the day after some PS2 game servers were shut down playing online with LAN tunneling using Xlink Kai.  It felt awesome playing these games again.



#16 Master Phruby ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:03 AM

So aren't game discs just license keys to download gigabytes of stuff to your hard drive that can be taken away at any time. All of those collections of XBox One games have no game code on them at all?



#17 Tanooki OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:08 AM

Depends on the game and the console.  Some really are that bad.  Others give you part of a game and a required download to work at all, or just fakes that seeing an online connection to force compliance.  The amount of abusive beta releases with day one repairs to work right or complete a function will be the worst.



#18 Bakasama OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:24 PM

So aren't game discs just license keys to download gigabytes of stuff to your hard drive that can be taken away at any time. All of those collections of XBox One games have no game code on them at all?

 

Capcom is got a lot of flak for some of their games like Street Fighter V. Somebody data mined it and find out the all the future "updates" were already in the game and needed to be unlocked with a paid key.



#19 cimerians OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 5:25 PM

This is a little different but farewell anyway emuparadise

 

DkFWFP3W4AA2wHV.jpg



#20 Rocket Man OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 6:51 PM

 

That's why I groan at the dearth of modern games that require some kind of online functionality to add to gameplay. Someday, when the servers shut down, it'll be a gimped game.

 

I concur.

 

I despise Blizzard for this very reason and it's why I still haven't played StarCraft II.  I have Diablo III for Console, but it shouldn't be like that.  One day I hope I can mod StarCraft II to be played Offline and independent of Blizzards' Totalitarian ways.  There is and has never been a valid reason to tie a Single Player game to an online authentication process.  To claim, it's to combat Piracy and help the Developers make their money, is asinine to say the least.



#21 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:35 PM

DkKUBRjXoAATUUc.jpg small.jpg



#22 cimerians OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:40 PM

I agree

 

https://kotaku.com/i...=Kotaku_Twitter


Edited by cimerians, Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:40 PM.


#23 moycon OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:55 AM

This is a little different but farewell anyway emuparadise

 

DkFWFP3W4AA2wHV.jpg

Is this a hoax? When I go to EmuParadise it's up and running as usual with no hint that they will be shutting down that I can find. 



#24 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:57 AM

Is this a hoax? When I go to EmuParadise it's up and running as usual with no hint that they will be shutting down that I can find. 

 

I don't think they're directly saying bye bye website.  I think once people realize there are no romzorz traffic will plummet.  I'd be afraid that the drop in revenue wouldn't be sustainable.



#25 cimerians OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:59 AM

Is this a hoax? When I go to EmuParadise it's up and running as usual with no hint that they will be shutting down that I can find. 

 

Don't think so, Nintendo is making noise:

 

https://www.emuparad...se-changing.php

 

"EmuParadise will continue to operate as a repository for legal downloads of classic console emulators, as well as a database of information on thousands of classic games. "But you won't be able to get your games from here for now," as MasJ writes."

 

I STRONGLY agree with Kohler, I posted the link above.


Edited by cimerians, Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:02 AM.





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