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#1 jonecool OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 7, 2018 3:47 PM

Found the code below on the TI 99er facebook page (link here) and made a short video of it running in the Classic 99 emulator.  I was totally blown away, this is running in TI-Basic with a hack that includes some assy. code.  I did not write this code, it's very impressive whoever did!

 

 

The code:

100 FOR I=1 TO 128
110 READ J
120 A$=A$&CHR$(J)
130 NEXT I
140 FOR I=1 TO 102
150 READ J
160 Z$=Z$&CHR$(J)
170 NEXT I
180 DATA 0,0,2,224,131,160,198,12,4,217,194,58,194,90,162,213,215,224,131,183,197,198,215,203,208,30,216,30
190 DATA 131,161,2,2,0,100,16,11,0,0,0,0,0,200,0,0,0,0,53,103,0,0,0,0,192,59,192,155,96,128,2,11,131
200 DATA 0,192,75,2,12,220,94,215,224,131,161,5,194,215,192,16,0,4,140,6,2,22,253,4,91,152,32,131,115,131
210 DATA 179,22,251,16,209,131,62,192,59,131,126,131,114,131,196,131,48,0,6,0,104,140,0,136,0,140,2,0,0,0
220 DATA 0,131,160,77,0,39,227,2,3,131,138,130,72,21,43,2,1,131,168,192,8,2,40,0,4,5,194,6,147,192,5,6
230 DATA 147,2,134,154,32,22,242,5,133,4,202,4,199,2,42,255,250,5,133,192,5,6,1,4,198,7,2,6,147,2,38
240 DATA 255,223,23,228,192,10,10,6,225,198,2,138,255,250,19,239,7,2,192,4,5,132,2,12,215,113,6,160
250 DATA 131,142,6,1,10,135,5,202,16,230,6,160,131,126,27,2,27,106
260 OPEN #1:A$
23296 REM U!!%Y)0'"/#$S!)#AV,)%I05V`)#AI.A&PT)-I0!V`)1!.@SQ(,89)/D"9%7`.@"!A-9!.@SQ108119$&PX8Q2!!V`)1!.>""A17
23371 REM `1;AAXY<;BO1Y)%#A!;#`Y-$B$;&%9@9D!"9`1"!9!4$"=0"1Q8&Q15&R-'%"=9##1#!!AI!9!)(!.-##!#D"K#$@BO3'`9#!(A!
23446 REM I=12!Q+(!1!2!A5%I=3C"B%$!IA!Q"%#"1;C"K*$%1-#C1%!%1)&![*$II52!Q++!-!2!A5&II5#!9/O!A)!"A)-VX%'I)//!C!!
23521 REM #!+!?I!7VQ)!.`D)!).U"K#$@BPY('A#!9.UJ'!!%M!2!I![A"9%"K#$@BV'(<)#!9/O!A)!"A;AAYI%R!)&!!("B=$(#I/AS'(*1
23596 REM &A%(""5#"15&"W)+&1)&"A5)Q+#$RB9(!A)>;[A#A]!4`=#AA]!+QA)")!#!1B1"Q)()!I.W"K#$@BRK(.1#!9/ZQQI+8/-+!ET`
23671 REM "[-*Q!E#1!!(9Q$8U1),A!$8T!M,]N\!#>@2!GR!!.@-!CTA!.>,#I$8U;!+V]Q#<%!!EJY7"A<-V]Q'T.@-VW#$>I$!&A1'I)._
23746 REM (.9>2-%%%1/C27%)%-WCBK%(%-I$!!!#!Q!!!!)!"1!#!Y/K"-1#$!!E--!#$!!'"Q)W!A6#Y1,-QA)A`Q!9]Q)'A]A+'"=-!A?$
23821 REM RM!7&AE(&M!8%Q)%VR!%R?#$Q"!"".9#+O]!&A%%'M%%&A1'I)._'`A=;.@AA^1%Y)07V_#$V2$-!A)!#A4%"A17`A9#&PQ#!9/G
23896 REM Q##$Q!)A(7M4`=#!%1-#1A!(%!)#9P`YT%)#A9/O&P,)!)0!!A![?!)#!!9'I)/+!A!!1!;AAVI#!!"A"K#$7A;AAXY<EBPWV]!'
23971 REM Q.@!"M!#!BA!VU!'!B<^"&M

 



#2 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 7, 2018 3:51 PM

the discussion for this is here:  

 

http://atariage.com/...&hl=+playground



#3 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 7, 2018 4:58 PM

I think the hack is cool, but really do not see the value of this other then Assembly and limited to Scratchpad RAM.

 

You can do 20 times more with 32K and a EA Supercart or even better a 1Meg SAMS & new Super Carts out there now.


Edited by RXB, Wed Mar 7, 2018 4:59 PM.


#4 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 7, 2018 5:09 PM

Found the code below on the TI 99er facebook page (link here) and made a short video of it running in the Classic 99 emulator.  I was totally blown away, this is running in TI-Basic with a hack that includes some assy. code.  I did not write this code, it's very impressive whoever did!

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

I've always liked the screen saver programs and am amazed that no one has yet made a screen saver like program similar to that for the F18A.  With the obvious talent we have here, I cannot image it would be too difficult. Of course, that lack of challenge to the uber level programmers here might me one of the reasons.



#5 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 7, 2018 5:43 PM

Sorry but a 9938 or 9958 is the upgrade chip for the 9918 and it had 256 colors and 4 times the number of pixels.

 

Also the 9938 or 9958 had 128K or 192K of VDP memory.

 

To bad I never got a answer why the MESS never addressed my Video and solved the issues I showed.

(Possibly it could have been using Windows 7 on a MacPro instead of OS X)

 

Anyway the 9938 and 9958 are the true upgrades for the TI as they are the same family of VDP chips that TI had proposed.

 



#6 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 7, 2018 5:52 PM

Sorry but a 9938 or 9958 is the upgrade chip for the 9918 and it had 256 colors and 4 times the number of pixels.

 

I believe this falls under the 'opinion' or 'arguable' category.  It's a well worn topic that has gone around and around for years now. There are pros & cons for both the ones you listed above, but currently there is only one that is dominant, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


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#7 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 7, 2018 6:14 PM

I think the hack is cool, but really do not see the value of this other then Assembly and limited to Scratchpad RAM.

 

You can do 20 times more with 32K and a EA Supercart or even better a 1Meg SAMS & new Super Carts out there now.

 

the value is making the TI do something unexpected!



#8 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 7, 2018 6:15 PM

 

I've always liked the screen saver programs and am amazed that no one has yet made a screen saver like program similar to that for the F18A.  With the obvious talent we have here, I cannot image it would be too difficult. Of course, that lack of challenge to the uber level programmers here might me one of the reasons.

 

may be a good thing to cut my teeth on c programming or you know, you could always learn to do some of the things you wish for :)



#9 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 7, 2018 9:03 PM

 

... you could always learn to do some of the things you wish for :)

 

Old dog, new tricks, declining memory, but still cognitive enough to know my limitations.  Programming is just not my niche within in the TI community, but I'll keep trying to contribute in a few small ways as I have in the past.



#10 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Mar 7, 2018 10:15 PM

I think the hack is cool, but really do not see the value of this other then Assembly and limited to Scratchpad RAM.

 

You can do 20 times more with 32K and a EA Supercart or even better a 1Meg SAMS & new Super Carts out there now.

 

I try to avoid saying, "there is nothing special about the sun rising because it does it every day" as this completely ignores the special circumstances under which the event occurs.  Specifically to the case of breaking out of the TI BASIC sandbox, this dismisses out-of-hand the context of the time.

 

Sure, now we have amazingly easy access to tools which makes this "miracle" less impressive by comparison and ignoring the context: TI BASIC was intentionally built with a very closed ecosystem similar in effectiveness to the iOS ecosystem, in that you only ran the exact tools which you were given.  If you wanted more from your TI then you purchased Extended BASIC or Editor/Assembler and commensurate hardware, perhaps even third party, and similarly if you want more from your iPhone or your iPad then you purchase the apps provided within the App Store and be happy with it.

 

But someone took on the challenge and proved Montgomery Scott absolutely correct when expressing the notion, "The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."  Someone figured out where TI BASIC's plumbing was weak and exploited it; someone created quite possibly one of the very first technological "jail breaks."

 

The TI BASIC jail-break has more than just a cool factor, executing it took dedication and intricate knowledge and understanding.  The incandescent tungsten filament light bulb is "cool" and we have arguably better technology today, but the astronomical engineering achievement that went into taking a magnetic field, or even to recognize its presence and understanding its usefulness, to induce a current across a wire, then transmit that current over a distance in such a way it is still usable at the receiving end, and force that current across a filament made with just the right balance of materials to emit that current as visible light energy without immediately melting down or instantly evaporating.

 

Sun rising, tungsten light bulb, iOS ecosystem, and the TI BASIC sandbox.  I think that just about covers it.



#11 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 2:07 AM

 

the value is making the TI do something unexpected!

Yea the 4 times number of pixels and 256 colors just kicks the crap out of the F18 for programs and utility, and 128K or 192K VDP?

 

(Not to mention having 32 sprites available to XB and BIT Mapped Graphics usable in XB at 4 times the size today.)

 

The F18 is a great device but really just pales in comparison to this.


Edited by RXB, Thu Mar 8, 2018 2:09 AM.


#12 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 6:18 AM

Yea the 4 times number of pixels and 256 colors just kicks the crap out of the F18 for programs and utility, and 128K or 192K VDP?

 

(Not to mention having 32 sprites available to XB and BIT Mapped Graphics usable in XB at 4 times the size today.)

 

The F18 is a great device but really just pales in comparison to this.

 

Not being an owner of either a 9938 or 9958 device for the TI-99/4A, I'll admit to being ignorant of any obtainable games written to exploit those classic cards.  I'd like to know, what examples specifically for the TI-99/4A are there?

 

I know in the graphics department the pickings are still small for the F18A on the TI, but they currently include the likes of Alex Kidd, Super Mario Brothers, Sabre Wulf and I believe Tursi's Slideshow program is another.  Sorry I cannot remember any of the others off the top of my head at the moment.

 

I'll admit, on paper the hardware specifications look good for the 9938 and 9958 devices, but I seem to remember that Matthew and Rasmus were busy behind the scenes making specific modifications for software upgrades on version 1.8 that gave it some new cool improved abilities to exploit that are unmatched on the unobtanium cards.

 

I think personal philosophies may add to the disagreement.  I believe the most expensive supercomputer on the planet is totally useless if it's unobtainable or no software is available, so for me it kind of renders the discussion moot.



#13 atrax27407 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 6:44 AM

Sigh! I guess I'll just continue to run F'WEB in 80 columns on my AVPC card with two 64K buffers that I can cut and paste between. Or, maybe I'll just use a 128K buffer..



#14 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 6:55 AM

Sigh! I guess I'll just continue to run F'WEB in 80 columns on my AVPC card with two 64K buffers that I can cut and paste between. Or, maybe I'll just use a 128K buffer..

 

 

Yep, very nice if you can obtain one.  Will it run on a standard cheap VGA monitor?


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#15 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:19 AM

To bad I never got a answer why the MESS never addressed my Video and solved the issues I showed.

(Possibly it could have been using Windows 7 on a MacPro instead of OS X)

 

Simple answers:

 

1. I totally forgot to pursue your questions. Sorry for that.

2. You did not deliver a clear description of the problems. I cannot do much about "I remember it differently." Is your memory correct? Is it the same software? Any other changes?

 

So I took my time and ran XHi on my real Geneve. Here are some photographs to prove what is supposed to happen. On the bottomline, MAME is behaving perfectly (with the exception that the v9938 emulation is a bit too fast), and I suspect that you remember another demo or another version of the demo. Or we have a broken demo.

 

Attached Files



#16 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:36 AM

I think personal philosophies may add to the disagreement.  I believe the most expensive supercomputer on the planet is totally useless if it's unobtainable or no software is available, so for me it kind of renders the discussion moot.

 

Repetitive discussion. Just from my side, maybe matching the sentiments of the others, I as a Geneve-only (and thus v9938) user have been hoping, ever since I got the machine, for some nice graphics and exploitation of all the capabilities of the v9938 chip. When I got a glimpse on what the MSX community has achieved, this did not make it better.

 

On the other hand, the F18A development is certainly an impressive and important progress on the TI side.

 

As I posted elsewhere, for me the Geneve is so much more than its v9938, so - personal view, I said - not even the F18A is reason enough for me to go back to a TI console, even it it could clean my dishes and walk the dog.  (... I just forgot why we are discussing this, but well...)

 

It seems as if it gets as far as we have people to write software for it. If it's not enough, maybe we ourselves should write some more v9938 software.


Edited by mizapf, Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:39 AM.


#17 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 7:52 AM

 

Repetitive discussion. 

 

On the other hand, the F18A development is certainly an impressive and important progress on the TI side.

 

As I posted elsewhere, for me the Geneve is so much more than its v9938, so - personal view, I said - not even the F18A is reason enough for me to go back to a TI console, even it it could clean my dishes and walk the dog. 

 

Repetitive?  Agreed!  

 

I can totally understand not wanting to 'go back'.  You have a lot of features you are used to and do not want to lose.  I kinda envy you Geneve guys who've had those features for years.  I'm in the same boat as you, I'm so far into the path that I took, that I simply could not rationalize the expense to go that route for what I'd gain, and lose, at the same time.



#18 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 8:37 AM

The point is, for both F18A and V9938, but obviously more for the latter: We are so few people that it is senseless to hope for some "cool software" emerging one nice spring morning.

 

You can already see it for the F18A, where people increasingly hope to finally see impressive stuff from the guys they deem capable to deliver. It is what we call "Anspruchsdenken" in German, roughly translated as "claim-oriented thinking". To some degree it is hardly avoidable, and thus well understandable.

 

Certainly, not everyone feels adept enough to write software, or even to find enough time for it. But when we start thinking "why is there so few software that shows XXX", we should add "what have I done to prevent it"?



#19 Opry99er OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:17 AM

Id love to have a 9938 device that allowed me to use 80 col Funnelweb. Thats almost literally the extent of my interest....

Im sure others have other interests and needs, but in order to access the features of the 9938, you have to have a 9938 device, and since theyre not readily available... well..... you wont see much development for them, unfortunately.

So for my own selfish needs, Id love to see an FPGA 9938 or an F18A hacked with increased VRAMbut I unfortunately have nothing to offer in way of development, so I have never talked about it.

I dont see the point in advocating for something if I cant help make it happen. I can ask (and I do) but if the will isnt there by those who have the technical ability to do it, its a lost cause trying to beg and plead.

Id love to see a Faxanadu port for the TI.
Id love to see a full RS232 and cassette interface for Classic99
Id love to see a new Geneve clone in my PEB
And Id love to be able to run 80 col Funnelweb on my TI. :)


I cant contribute much to these projects... it isnt within my skillset.


But.... I wanted a baseball game for the BBS, so I made one. I wanted a new standalone text adventure for the TI, so I made one. :)

I think the important thing is to *make stuff*... whether its arcade-quality assembly games, new interfacing hardware, or a simple 4K game in console BASIC.... just make stuff!! If its interesting, people will use it. We have awesome tools and awesome talent, and we should celebrate that. Ill keep making my simple games and programs because its what I can do.

Thats how I see things.

#20 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:22 AM

As of the last polling, I think the F18A was still used by more participants here than any other format display method, including the original 9918 in either RF or composite configurations.  There was an uptick in the 9918 user percentage last year though at the time when so many newbies and returning TI'ers came back into the fold, but IIRC many of them are waiting for Matthew to make his next batch of F18A's, so that number will increase yet again. 

 

I *MAY* run another poll after Matthew's next run to determine by how large a percentage the F18A user base currently is.  Who knows, that might even spur further software development, when some programmers realize that the user base for that hardware device is the largest.



#21 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 9:28 AM

Anspruchsdenken I like that or in American https://goo.gl/images/viBamx

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#22 FDOS OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Mar 8, 2018 10:36 AM

Found the code below on the TI 99er facebook page (link here) and made a short video of it running in the Classic 99 emulator.  I was totally blown away, this is running in TI-Basic with a hack that includes some assy. code.  I did not write this code, it's very impressive whoever did!

 

 

The code:

100 FOR I=1 TO 128
110 READ J
120 A$=A$&CHR$(J)
130 NEXT I
140 FOR I=1 TO 102
150 READ J
160 Z$=Z$&CHR$(J)
170 NEXT I
180 DATA 0,0,2,224,131,160,198,12,4,217,194,58,194,90,162,213,215,224,131,183,197,198,215,203,208,30,216,30
190 DATA 131,161,2,2,0,100,16,11,0,0,0,0,0,200,0,0,0,0,53,103,0,0,0,0,192,59,192,155,96,128,2,11,131
200 DATA 0,192,75,2,12,220,94,215,224,131,161,5,194,215,192,16,0,4,140,6,2,22,253,4,91,152,32,131,115,131
210 DATA 179,22,251,16,209,131,62,192,59,131,126,131,114,131,196,131,48,0,6,0,104,140,0,136,0,140,2,0,0,0
220 DATA 0,131,160,77,0,39,227,2,3,131,138,130,72,21,43,2,1,131,168,192,8,2,40,0,4,5,194,6,147,192,5,6
230 DATA 147,2,134,154,32,22,242,5,133,4,202,4,199,2,42,255,250,5,133,192,5,6,1,4,198,7,2,6,147,2,38
240 DATA 255,223,23,228,192,10,10,6,225,198,2,138,255,250,19,239,7,2,192,4,5,132,2,12,215,113,6,160
250 DATA 131,142,6,1,10,135,5,202,16,230,6,160,131,126,27,2,27,106
260 OPEN #1:A$
23296 REM U!!%Y)0'"/#$S!)#AV,)%I05V`)#AI.A&PT)-I0!V`)1!.@SQ(,89)/D"9%7`.@"!A-9!.@SQ108119$&PX8Q2!!V`)1!.>""A17
23371 REM `1;AAXY<;BO1Y)%#A!;#`Y-$B$;&%9@9D!"9`1"!9!4$"=0"1Q8&Q15&R-'%"=9##1#!!AI!9!)(!.-##!#D"K#$@BO3'`9#!(A!
23446 REM I=12!Q+(!1!2!A5%I=3C"B%$!IA!Q"%#"1;C"K*$%1-#C1%!%1)&![*$II52!Q++!-!2!A5&II5#!9/O!A)!"A)-VX%'I)//!C!!
23521 REM #!+!?I!7VQ)!.`D)!).U"K#$@BPY('A#!9.UJ'!!%M!2!I![A"9%"K#$@BV'(<)#!9/O!A)!"A;AAYI%R!)&!!("B=$(#I/AS'(*1
23596 REM &A%(""5#"15&"W)+&1)&"A5)Q+#$RB9(!A)>;[A#A]!4`=#AA]!+QA)")!#!1B1"Q)()!I.W"K#$@BRK(.1#!9/ZQQI+8/-+!ET`
23671 REM "[-*Q!E#1!!(9Q$8U1),A!$8T!M,]N\!#>@2!GR!!.@-!CTA!.>,#I$8U;!+V]Q#<%!!EJY7"A<-V]Q'T.@-VW#$>I$!&A1'I)._
23746 REM (.9>2-%%%1/C27%)%-WCBK%(%-I$!!!#!Q!!!!)!"1!#!Y/K"-1#$!!E--!#$!!'"Q)W!A6#Y1,-QA)A`Q!9]Q)'A]A+'"=-!A?$
23821 REM RM!7&AE(&M!8%Q)%VR!%R?#$Q"!"".9#+O]!&A%%'M%%&A1'I)._'`A=;.@AA^1%Y)07V_#$V2$-!A)!#A4%"A17`A9#&PQ#!9/G
23896 REM Q##$Q!)A(7M4`=#!%1-#1A!(%!)#9P`YT%)#A9/O&P,)!)0!!A![?!)#!!9'I)/+!A!!1!;AAVI#!!"A"K#$7A;AAXY<EBPWV]!'
23971 REM Q.@!"M!#!BA!VU!'!B<^"&M

It is the Mini Memory Module AL "LINES" program.  I can load TIB+, which includes the "LINES" program,  into TI BASIC, and execute it much quicker.  Eventually the FG99 module will make it even quicker.



#23 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 9, 2018 2:26 AM

 

Not being an owner of either a 9938 or 9958 device for the TI-99/4A, I'll admit to being ignorant of any obtainable games written to exploit those classic cards.  I'd like to know, what examples specifically for the TI-99/4A are there?

 

I know in the graphics department the pickings are still small for the F18A on the TI, but they currently include the likes of Alex Kidd, Super Mario Brothers, Sabre Wulf and I believe Tursi's Slideshow program is another.  Sorry I cannot remember any of the others off the top of my head at the moment.

 

I'll admit, on paper the hardware specifications look good for the 9938 and 9958 devices, but I seem to remember that Matthew and Rasmus were busy behind the scenes making specific modifications for software upgrades on version 1.8 that gave it some new cool improved abilities to exploit that are unmatched on the unobtanium cards.

 

I think personal philosophies may add to the disagreement.  I believe the most expensive supercomputer on the planet is totally useless if it's unobtainable or no software is available, so for me it kind of renders the discussion moot.

We had a version of TI-Opoly, but most of the games for the 9938 were on the Geneve.

For the TI we had XHI (XB Assembly links), Y.A.P.P. a 9938 verision of TI Artist with killer graphics 49,786 colors possible in RGB.

I think to many different hardware verions were the reason for software games to be created as each required a different version.



#24 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Mar 9, 2018 2:30 AM

 

Simple answers:

 

1. I totally forgot to pursue your questions. Sorry for that.

2. You did not deliver a clear description of the problems. I cannot do much about "I remember it differently." Is your memory correct? Is it the same software? Any other changes?

 

So I took my time and ran XHi on my real Geneve. Here are some photographs to prove what is supposed to happen. On the bottomline, MAME is behaving perfectly (with the exception that the v9938 emulation is a bit too fast), and I suspect that you remember another demo or another version of the demo. Or we have a broken demo.

 

The demo ran fine on my TIM and we also ran it on a Digit card fine.

Many of the screen colors are not even close and anyone can see most of the screen being back means a bad color pallet.

Again if you ran it on a Mac and got the same results a on my PC running Windows 7 and 10 I suspect a problem with VGA transfer.



#25 mizapf OFFLINE  

mizapf

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Posted Fri Mar 9, 2018 6:19 AM

The pictures are real photographs from my Geneve monitor, and the cable is OK. I have no issues with any other program. When I stop the demo, the palette is indeed messed up, so as I said, there is a problem with the Hires demo, but not with MAME, since MAME exactly reproduces what I get from my real machine.






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