tjlazer Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Been playing with my 1200XL lately and been trying some extended mem games. Seems most do not work. The 256k version of Commando does not work, Pang, and Yie Ar Kung Fu. Trying the ones that do not require more than 256k. I was able to get the EXE version of Stunt Car Racing to work. 130XE stuff works fine. Tried swapping out the ram chips just in case, but mem tests come back fine. Is there a compatibility issue with this RAM board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Does Commando not require a 320K machine? Also, ensure all are NTSC compatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) The file version of Commando that is NOT the Commando+ version works with 256K fine on my Atarimax Rambo PAL 1200XL. Pang never has, even though it says it only needs 192K of extended memory. Yie Ar Kung Fu requires 320K. But out of all the 128-256K games on the Atari, Pang is the only one I could never get to work. And, at one point I was using the full 512K capabilities of the Atarimax Rambo and at that point the file versions of Yie Ar Kung Fu and Bomb Jack, which require 320K also worked fine. I plan on attempting Pang again once I have my computer back to 512K to see if it loads then. I had to use Altirra emulator with 320K setting when I did the review for Pang in issue 4 of Excel. Edited March 9, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 How do you upgrade the Atarimax to 512k? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) Using these instructions. Use the .ATR to test your memory 256 or 512K. Also an .ATR of memory checkers. I recommend memcheck.com on that .ATR. Atarimax 512k Memory Upgrade for 1200XL Computers.pdf MEMRAMCHECKTEST.ATR Edited March 9, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 How does this handle separate ANTIC access? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Only 130XE CPU compatibility is mentioned: https://www.atarimax.com/freenet/freenet_material/5.8-BitComputersSupportArea/7.TechnicalResourceCenter/showarticle.php?30 The extra address line for 512K overloads the self-test bit. Having tried the 256->512K upgrade once using similar parts, I can only suggest that if a TTL RAM upgrade is already working, simply be thankful for small mercies and continue with your day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) Hmm wonder if it's an issue of NTSC then. How can I test my ram board is working correctly? Edit: I'll try the ATR posted to test, thanks Edited March 9, 2018 by tjlazer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) How does this handle separate ANTIC access? Remind me what uses separate ANTIC access? Because I don't recall ever needing it in the 33 years I've owned a 128K plus Atari... Edited March 9, 2018 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Anything which loads up bitmaps in the extended RAM for page flipping, etc, so: some demos. I consider ANTIC access pretty much useless not only because its existence is not guaranteed, but because the original implementation was ill-conceived (the CPU and ANTIC cannot simultaneously access different extended banks). Might be handy for games, but for an OS which would like to keep the screen buffer in extended RAM while using other banks for code and data: useless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) I use it with the X comm Wedge for Spartados... and as you mention demos use it too... Edited March 10, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Interesting. Why does X Com Wedge need ANTIC access mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 What is X comm wedge even used for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) Anything which loads up bitmaps in the extended RAM for page flipping, etc, so: some demos. I consider ANTIC access pretty much useless not only because its existence is not guaranteed, but because the original implementation was ill-conceived (the CPU and ANTIC cannot simultaneously access different extended banks). Might be handy for games, but for an OS which would like to keep the screen buffer in extended RAM while using other banks for code and data: useless. Even if it is better than extended memory like Rambo, and the "official" Atari memory standard, the fact is that Rambo type extended memory has long since been the defacto standard, which is why HALT is so rarely used, and thus essentially useless. Why people care anymore about their memory upgrade needing separate Antic access for a couple of demos and one utility is beyond me, except for 1% who use X comm wedge. I gladly gave up my "official" 128K 130XE for a Rambo 256/512 upgrade (and gladly give up the nearly useless self-test mode for 512K, which can easily be controlled with a 256/512K switch anyway). The absolute last thing I care about in an A8 memory upgrade is separate Antic access. Of course the reason for going the Rambo route in the first place, instead of upgrading my 130XE to 320 or 576K was I wanted a better quality build of machine to upgrade. My guess is that X comm wedge is a utility that was introduced after the ICD era of SpartaDOS since it's not compatible with their own Rambo standard. (unless, of course, if separate Antic access is just an option within X comm wedge) Edited March 10, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Wow just wow, I don't even know where to begin.... and with that I'm out. Incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Anyone get Commando+ to work on NTSC with the 256k upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) Wow just wow, I don't even know where to begin.... and with that I'm out. Incredible. Can you tell me what aspect of the X-COM Wedge requires ANTIC access mode first? Anyone get Commando+ to work on NTSC with the 256k upgrade? The version of Commando with a special title screen (Commando+) requires 320K, so it's not going to work in 256K. Edited March 10, 2018 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) Wow just wow, I don't even know where to begin.... and with that I'm out. Incredible. Is this in response to my post? I'm not sure what I said that should evoke such a response. If it is, then I guess it is better left alone. Edited March 10, 2018 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Can you tell me what aspect of the X-COM Wedge requires ANTIC access mode first? The version of Commando with a special title screen (Commando+) requires 320K, so it's not going to work in 256K. This one? Says 256k. Oh well. http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=5610 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) This one? Says 256k. Oh well. http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=5610 256K of expanded memory, which is 256K+64K base memory, which totals 320K. I haven't tested it to verify, however. All my contributions to this thread were based on forum and Google searches. Edited March 10, 2018 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 Gotcha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle_jedi Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Pretty sure I can run the 256K version of Commando on my NTSC 1200XL (with Rambo 256K) with no issues. Mine has an 800XL OS. Maybe the OS is the problem, not the memory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 OK I found one that runs on 192k (256k!) Was hard to find it, so here it is: In the archive in this post... http://atariage.com/forums/topic/162420-ram-320xl/?p=2113790 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 This one? Says 256k. Oh well. http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=5610 Unfortunately there seems to be no rime or reason in whether people label the games, in the file name or in a .txt file, when referring to memory, if it means total ram, or just extended ram. You have to learn through trial and error. It should all just be designated by the total ram, as the upgrades themselves are. The Rambo isn't called a 192K upgrade, but a 256K. Ultimate 1MB doesn't short itself 64K in the name either. I don't know any that do. So why do some people decide to designate a game by extended ram required? It just confuses people. Absolutely pointless to me, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Unfortunately there seems to be no rime or reason in whether people label the games, in the file name or in a .txt file, when referring to memory, if it means total ram, or just extended ram. You have to learn through trial and error. Well, no trial and error was required here because the description said: "256K of expanded memory", not "256K of total memory" or "Requires 256K". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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